licensedThe rejection of Manomio's Commodore 64 emulator for the iPhone has generated an enormous amount of debate and discussion surrounding Apple's acceptance policies and the App Store. A closer read of the cited SDK section appears to specifically limit the execution of outside or downloadable code, which seems to make Sega's Golden Axe and Sonic fixed single-emulation games permissible. The commonly held beliefs surrounding why Apple would implement these restrictions seem to center around 1) revenue and 2) control.

Before the introduction of in-app purchasing, allowing developers to sell ROMs or other downloadable content outside of Apple's control was seen as a possible threat to Apple's revenue stream. This argument, of course, is less relevant after the release of the 3.0 firmware which permits in-app purchasing. However, as these restrictions on downloading executable code remains in place, even Sega would presumably be unable to introduce a generic "Sega Arcade" application that would allow in-app purchases of games individually.

The second reason for the restriction seems perhaps to be the more notable one. If Apple were to allow apps to download, install and run arbitrary code, they would lose control of the device experience. It could also open the door to alternative platforms such as Java or Flash, and also introduce security concerns into the device.

selectAfter having spent some time with Manomio's C64 app, however, it seems they took special efforts to follow the spirit of the rules, if not the literal interpretation.

The initial C64 app that was submitted to Apple was an emulator application that comes packaged with 5 games and Commodore Basic. The games are presented in a nicely depicted shelf which allows you to pick and choose which game you'd like to play. These features, by itself, seem like they would not run afoul of the published SDK rules.

The C64 emulator, however, also offers a "Store" to obtain other Commodore C64 titles. I suspect this is where a red flag would have been triggered. What's interesting, however, is that the titles offered in Manomio's "C64 Store" are not downloadable within the C64 app, itself. They are simply links to individual App Store apps that contain the Disk Images themselves. Those apps, of course, would also be individually approved by Apple and purchased by the end user just the same as any other application.
install
These standalone game bundles then install themselves into the original C64 app through published SDK APIs. Such a procedure would still preserve Apple's revenue stream and also allow individual approval of every Commodore 64 application that would be introduced into the App Store.

While a very nice system for the end user, I suspect Manomio will have to settle for a less ambitious system if they hope to make it into the App Store.

We asked Manomio if they had considered simply falling back to individual fixed-rom packs like Sega's games and they said they have, though it's likely to be their final option.

Of course, this is all speculative, as the BASIC interpreter itself could have also been the offending issue alone.

  • http://www.myspace.com/moonsofjupitermusic RM imagery

    I can understand Apple's stance. This is actually good news as I see them working it out and Manomio using that final option. Just a matter of time.

    Like I said in the last article - bring on the Amiga next!

    • http://www.joebucci.com/jr Joe Bucci

      Well, I think Apple's refusal may be a bit short sighted. I myself have no *particular* use for an iPhone. I use a Nextel Cell phone. And, if I *Really* wanted to carry a C64 in my pocket, I would get a NintendoDS. There's a very nice emulator for that.

      Although, I DO think the iPhone would probably run an Emulation better and faster than the DS. And, if a C64 were available for the iPhone I (and probably a lot of other people) just might break down and buy one!

      And, for the price of an iPhone I could get a pretty small Windows laptop to satisfy MY desire for a "Pocket-able" C64. Commodore and Apple have always had this 'rival' thing going. Maybe they think it would be blasphemy to allow C64 software to run on Apple hardware...

      Oh, wait!! There ARE C64 emulators for the Mac! What are they going to do about that? - NADA, NOTHING, ZIP, ZILCH, etc....

      Come on Apple!! You're LOSING MONEY!!

      Booch

  • http://www.myspace.com/moonsofjupitermusic RM imagery

    I can understand Apple's stance. This is actually good news as I see them working it out and Manomio using that final option. Just a matter of time.

    Like I said in the last article - bring on the Amiga next!

    • http://www.joebucci.com/jr Joe Bucci

      Well, I think Apple's refusal may be a bit short sighted. I myself have no *particular* use for an iPhone. I use a Nextel Cell phone. And, if I *Really* wanted to carry a C64 in my pocket, I would get a NintendoDS. There's a very nice emulator for that.

      Although, I DO think the iPhone would probably run an Emulation better and faster than the DS. And, if a C64 were available for the iPhone I (and probably a lot of other people) just might break down and buy one!

      And, for the price of an iPhone I could get a pretty small Windows laptop to satisfy MY desire for a "Pocket-able" C64. Commodore and Apple have always had this 'rival' thing going. Maybe they think it would be blasphemy to allow C64 software to run on Apple hardware...

      Oh, wait!! There ARE C64 emulators for the Mac! What are they going to do about that? - NADA, NOTHING, ZIP, ZILCH, etc....

      Come on Apple!! You're LOSING MONEY!!

      Booch

  • spiffyone

    If that indeed is the restriction, then, quite honestly, it's a pretty silly one. It effectively curtails the ability for Apple to make more money on such emulator shell apps (as they would allow for the paid, App Store enabled micro transactions for which 3.0 provides). There are people who are right now less likely to buy emulator apps like Sega's due to the fact that they are treated completely separate (and therefore would take up valuable page real estate).

    Couldn't Apple just...oh, I don't know...REVIEW the friggin' apps such as these more closely to ensure that they AREN'T security risks? Or would that be asking too much of Apple? They are, after all, notorious for being a bit scatterbrained when it comes to the enforcement of its own SDK rules.

    And is it really the idea of ROMs as executables, or is it due to the inclusion of BASIC?

    • Alex

      Exactly! Presumably Apple intend to subject every item of in-app purchased content, or else *everyone* would just release shell applications to download whatever they wanted... This restriction doesn't work.

  • spiffyone

    If that indeed is the restriction, then, quite honestly, it's a pretty silly one. It effectively curtails the ability for Apple to make more money on such emulator shell apps (as they would allow for the paid, App Store enabled micro transactions for which 3.0 provides). There are people who are right now less likely to buy emulator apps like Sega's due to the fact that they are treated completely separate (and therefore would take up valuable page real estate).

    Couldn't Apple just...oh, I don't know...REVIEW the friggin' apps such as these more closely to ensure that they AREN'T security risks? Or would that be asking too much of Apple? They are, after all, notorious for being a bit scatterbrained when it comes to the enforcement of its own SDK rules.

    And is it really the idea of ROMs as executables, or is it due to the inclusion of BASIC?

    • Alex

      Exactly! Presumably Apple intend to subject every item of in-app purchased content, or else *everyone* would just release shell applications to download whatever they wanted... This restriction doesn't work.

  • Alex

    It seems to me that this particular part of the developer agreement needs some tuning. To use your example, the idea of having hundreds of single titles floating around the app store rather than one "Sega Arcade" app is just dum.

  • Alex

    Uh, that'd be *dumb* :)

  • Alex

    It seems to me that this particular part of the developer agreement needs some tuning. To use your example, the idea of having hundreds of single titles floating around the app store rather than one "Sega Arcade" app is just dum.

  • Alex

    Uh, that'd be *dumb* :)

  • spiffyone

    And, btw...notice the arguments presented for not allowing "downloadable code" don't seem to apply to things like the various e-reader apps out there. E-Reader and Stanza allow for downloads, PAID downloads at that, of e-books from Fictionwise.com, etc. There are other apps, including, iirc, Frotz (the text game interpreter) that have allowed for similar things for quite some time now.

    And before someone states "those aren't code": aren't they? At root, everything that runs on a computer is code. Even text. If the wording is "downloadable code", then...isn't that...oh, I don't know...incredibly friggin' vague?

  • Drunknbass

    I think you're a tad confused about how the storekit API works. You night want to research a little more b4 you sound stupid (again) ;)

    • arn

      I don't believe I was talking about the storekit API. I'm not familiar with it, but I should point out that this is a non-3.0 aware app, as it seems to be a 3.0-specific api.

      arn

      • Drunknbass

        It is only possible to download levels or content and put it in documents, which would mean apple DID not have control over the review process. There is no way to connect to AppStore and install modules into your game. And even storekit does not do this. You are still required to host your levels and they must also be downloaded and installed in the same way, apple is just giving you an outlet to easily accept payment.
        There is no API to install content as that would require a new complete code signing if your app.

      • arn

        Here's how it works.

        C64 Main App -> Buy from app Store
        C64 Sports Pack -> Buy from app Store

        launch C64 Sports Pack, and it asks you if you want to install the Sports Pack into the C64 Main App. You Click yes, it launches C64 and does so. Next time you launch C64 Main App, it's in there.

      • Drunknbass

        Well if that's what they do that's against sdk rules. You can not access apps outside of your sandbox PERIOD.
        Just because they know how to locate the emulator bundle and copy files to it doesn't mean it's allowed or ok.
        Also even if they used the same method with a server connection and phoned home with UUID saying that you purchased ***pack and then launched the emulator which then would connect to server and say "hey you have purchased ***pack, let's download it", that dmeans the content is coming from them directly and wasn't reviewed.

        So basically there is a few ways to achieve this but non are 100% ok. All seem to be doing something shady one way or another.

      • arn

        drunknbass, I think you are the one here who doesn't know the details. I can't get into how they did it, though they state it's all via published SDK APIs.

        arn

      • Drunknbass

        That's fine. I don't know EXACTLY how they do it. But what YOU explained above CAN be done with public Apis. It's just not allowed.
        I'm not saying that's why it was denied, since nobody knows but apple, but just because someone does something with public Apis doesn't make it ok .

        If it was id have my video recorder app from 2007 on AppStore because it uses all public Apis. But that'll never happen.

      • arn

        sorry, I edited my explanation a bit that should clarify.

        arn

      • dmbfan1192

        I'm totally ignorant to code and all of those other terms but isn't this kind of like how iMob installs respect points? I've never personally wasted money on them so I don't know.

      • Jim

        Can I add something? I will anyway. I believe drunknbass is correct that an app cannot install content in another. That would defeat the sandbox. One app can, however, launch another. When speaking of games like the Quest that offer an expansion pack, I get the feeling the additional app is only launching the main app to an otherwise hidden view that simply creates a key file in an encapsulated 'documents' folder that the main app checks at launch and unlocks already included content accordingly. I would suspect that all additional game packs would need to be bundled with the main C64 app in the first place.

        C64 Main App including locked C64 Sports Pack -> Buy from app Store
        App to launch a hidden view in main app and unlock pre-included C64 Sports Pack content -> Buy from app Store

        But someone please correct me if I am wrong.

    • spiffyone

      Was that comment directed towards me?

      If so, explain. I admit I might be completely wrong in the interpretation of the specific rule...but it is awfully vague, no?

      As for the "(again)"...if the comment was directed towards me...explain. Please.

      • spiffyone

        Oh...probably not directed toward me. But towards arn.

        Still...explain. Can't make such accusations of incompetence without defending your stance with some form of explanation.

    • http://flashback.manomio.com Stuart

      This is pre 3.0, and nothing to do with the storekit (which is the name of the API for in-app purchases); however, we're considering that option in the future. We had planned a release prior to 3.0, and thus Store Kit was not an option.

      Cheers,

      Stuart
      Manomio

    • http://manomio.com Stuart Carnie

      @Drunknbass,

      What we did *is* allow via the public APIs (given you don't have the source code, how can you comment authoritatively?) - neither applications reach outside their respective sand boxes. They simply communicate via the same API that is used to launch the browser, mail or telephone applications. We simply launch the C64. You've seen other applications do it too - USA Today launches tweetie, passing information to tweetie.

      Cheers,

      Stuart
      Manomio

  • spiffyone

    And, btw...notice the arguments presented for not allowing "downloadable code" don't seem to apply to things like the various e-reader apps out there. E-Reader and Stanza allow for downloads, PAID downloads at that, of e-books from Fictionwise.com, etc. There are other apps, including, iirc, Frotz (the text game interpreter) that have allowed for similar things for quite some time now.

    And before someone states "those aren't code": aren't they? At root, everything that runs on a computer is code. Even text. If the wording is "downloadable code", then...isn't that...oh, I don't know...incredibly friggin' vague?

  • Drunknbass

    I think you're a tad confused about how the storekit API works. You night want to research a little more b4 you sound stupid (again) ;)

    • arn

      I don't believe I was talking about the storekit API. I'm not familiar with it, but I should point out that this is a non-3.0 aware app, as it seems to be a 3.0-specific api.

      arn

      • Drunknbass

        It is only possible to download levels or content and put it in documents, which would mean apple DID not have control over the review process. There is no way to connect to AppStore and install modules into your game. And even storekit does not do this. You are still required to host your levels and they must also be downloaded and installed in the same way, apple is just giving you an outlet to easily accept payment.
        There is no API to install content as that would require a new complete code signing if your app.

      • arn

        Here's how it works.

        C64 Main App -> Buy from app Store
        C64 Sports Pack -> Buy from app Store

        launch C64 Sports Pack, and it asks you if you want to install the Sports Pack into the C64 Main App. You Click yes, it launches C64 and does so. Next time you launch C64 Main App, it's in there.

      • Drunknbass

        Well if that's what they do that's against sdk rules. You can not access apps outside of your sandbox PERIOD.
        Just because they know how to locate the emulator bundle and copy files to it doesn't mean it's allowed or ok.
        Also even if they used the same method with a server connection and phoned home with UUID saying that you purchased ***pack and then launched the emulator which then would connect to server and say "hey you have purchased ***pack, let's download it", that dmeans the content is coming from them directly and wasn't reviewed.

        So basically there is a few ways to achieve this but non are 100% ok. All seem to be doing something shady one way or another.

      • arn

        drunknbass, I think you are the one here who doesn't know the details. I can't get into how they did it, though they state it's all via published SDK APIs.

        arn

      • Drunknbass

        That's fine. I don't know EXACTLY how they do it. But what YOU explained above CAN be done with public Apis. It's just not allowed.
        I'm not saying that's why it was denied, since nobody knows but apple, but just because someone does something with public Apis doesn't make it ok .

        If it was id have my video recorder app from 2007 on AppStore because it uses all public Apis. But that'll never happen.

      • arn

        sorry, I edited my explanation a bit that should clarify.

        arn

      • dmbfan1192

        I'm totally ignorant to code and all of those other terms but isn't this kind of like how iMob installs respect points? I've never personally wasted money on them so I don't know.

      • Jim

        Can I add something? I will anyway. I believe drunknbass is correct that an app cannot install content in another. That would defeat the sandbox. One app can, however, launch another. When speaking of games like the Quest that offer an expansion pack, I get the feeling the additional app is only launching the main app to an otherwise hidden view that simply creates a key file in an encapsulated 'documents' folder that the main app checks at launch and unlocks already included content accordingly. I would suspect that all additional game packs would need to be bundled with the main C64 app in the first place.

        C64 Main App including locked C64 Sports Pack -> Buy from app Store
        App to launch a hidden view in main app and unlock pre-included C64 Sports Pack content -> Buy from app Store

        But someone please correct me if I am wrong.

    • spiffyone

      Was that comment directed towards me?

      If so, explain. I admit I might be completely wrong in the interpretation of the specific rule...but it is awfully vague, no?

      As for the "(again)"...if the comment was directed towards me...explain. Please.

      • spiffyone

        Oh...probably not directed toward me. But towards arn.

        Still...explain. Can't make such accusations of incompetence without defending your stance with some form of explanation.

    • http://flashback.manomio.com Stuart

      This is pre 3.0, and nothing to do with the storekit (which is the name of the API for in-app purchases); however, we're considering that option in the future. We had planned a release prior to 3.0, and thus Store Kit was not an option.

      Cheers,

      Stuart
      Manomio

    • http://manomio.com Stuart Carnie

      @Drunknbass,

      What we did *is* allow via the public APIs (given you don't have the source code, how can you comment authoritatively?) - neither applications reach outside their respective sand boxes. They simply communicate via the same API that is used to launch the browser, mail or telephone applications. We simply launch the C64. You've seen other applications do it too - USA Today launches tweetie, passing information to tweetie.

      Cheers,

      Stuart
      Manomio

  • DnP

    With fixed-rom packs it will be a piece of shit.... I want to play with any games not just 4-5 fixed. Change to Cydia, You can earn money there too, and forget about apple.

    • Alex

      ... and presumably forget about the 99% of iPhone owners who haven't a clue what jailbreaking is?

      Sound advice from the "Never Mind Making Any Real Money" school of business.

      • ZZMitch

        It is actually more like 90%, but yeah :p

      • Alex

        I bet not even 1% of users have jailbroken iDevices.

        Targeting Cydia (unless your app is something dodgy that would never be approved) would be cutting your nose off to spite your face on an epic scale.

      • DnP

        All of my friends have JB iPhone... all of them. In hungary, i think every 2nd phone is JB.

      • Alex

        Hahaha well I hope those super-savvy jailbreaking Hungarians have a LOT of disposable income. Otherwise I still reckon targeting the main app store is better business decision.

      • DnP

        Jailbraking doesn't mean ignoring the Appstore. If something worths it, i'll buy it... but i won't pay for a fartmachine like shit.

      • Alex

        I know jailbreaking doesn't mean ignoring the app store to you as a user, but targeting Cydia means exactly that to a developer - which is my point.

        Would you deliberately aim a product at a tiny minority of the total market?

      • DnP

        Of course not, but if it's the only way?

      • Alex

        Personally, if that was the only way I could release a commercial product due to that product's nature, I'd make something else.

  • DnP

    With fixed-rom packs it will be a piece of shit.... I want to play with any games not just 4-5 fixed. Change to Cydia, You can earn money there too, and forget about apple.

    • Alex

      ... and presumably forget about the 99% of iPhone owners who haven't a clue what jailbreaking is?

      Sound advice from the "Never Mind Making Any Real Money" school of business.

      • ZZMitch

        It is actually more like 90%, but yeah :p

      • Alex

        I bet not even 1% of users have jailbroken iDevices.

        Targeting Cydia (unless your app is something dodgy that would never be approved) would be cutting your nose off to spite your face on an epic scale.

      • DnP

        All of my friends have JB iPhone... all of them. In hungary, i think every 2nd phone is JB.

      • Alex

        Hahaha well I hope those super-savvy jailbreaking Hungarians have a LOT of disposable income. Otherwise I still reckon targeting the main app store is better business decision.

      • DnP

        Jailbraking doesn't mean ignoring the Appstore. If something worths it, i'll buy it... but i won't pay for a fartmachine like shit.

      • Alex

        I know jailbreaking doesn't mean ignoring the app store to you as a user, but targeting Cydia means exactly that to a developer - which is my point.

        Would you deliberately aim a product at a tiny minority of the total market?

      • DnP

        Of course not, but if it's the only way?

      • Alex

        Personally, if that was the only way I could release a commercial product due to that product's nature, I'd make something else.

  • Drunknbass

    And what apple means by executable code is code that can do something totally different. Example is like the back of a stereo reciever, you have a bunch of input/output but they are for specific things that can't be changed by the item you plug in.
    So you basically design your app/game with these connections in place so when you "plug in" a new level it just works. But the new level has to work with the existing app/game already. It cannot change specifics at run time to do something which was not anticipated on day 1.
    Even this arrangement could allow developer to "hide" hooks in their application that could do ANYTHING and trigger them at any time. I guess apple doesn't care to much about that though. 

  • Drunknbass

    And what apple means by executable code is code that can do something totally different. Example is like the back of a stereo reciever, you have a bunch of input/output but they are for specific things that can't be changed by the item you plug in.
    So you basically design your app/game with these connections in place so when you "plug in" a new level it just works. But the new level has to work with the existing app/game already. It cannot change specifics at run time to do something which was not anticipated on day 1.
    Even this arrangement could allow developer to "hide" hooks in their application that could do ANYTHING and trigger them at any time. I guess apple doesn't care to much about that though. 

  • Sambo110

    Aren't emulators illegal? Or did they get permission?

    • Alex

      They got permission from the license holder to include the titles.

  • Sambo110

    Aren't emulators illegal? Or did they get permission?

    • Alex

      They got permission from the license holder to include the titles.

  • jeff

    I can live without the basic interpreter if that will get this released by Apple. If by nefarious code you mean by outputting "hello Word" a hundred times I'm fine without this feature. I am also ok with the game being released with game packs via 3.0 os in game purchases. If roms cannot be purchased separately then separate bundled game releases may be the way to go. How about a kung fu edition , space edition, etc.?

  • jeff

    I can live without the basic interpreter if that will get this released by Apple. If by nefarious code you mean by outputting "hello Word" a hundred times I'm fine without this feature. I am also ok with the game being released with game packs via 3.0 os in game purchases. If roms cannot be purchased separately then separate bundled game releases may be the way to go. How about a kung fu edition , space edition, etc.?

  • http://www.c64iphone.com Brian Lyscarz

    Hey, great article sorting out most of the confusion, this is exactly why we´re so frustrated. We WANT to make this work for Apple too, if we could just get to talk to them and explain how much work we have putted into this app to AVOID all security issues for Apple - but how??

    As stated in comments earlier, the way to get new games would be to download a new app from appstore (free or payed), this app will contain two buttons, a TRY GAME, for those who do not have C64 app yet (or dont want it) AND an INSTALL button. When you hit install, it closes the "gamepack" and opens up C64 app where the game will be installed into your "gameshellf" together with some artwork and controls specially designet to this game for "casual" players who doesnt want to type "LOAD "*",8,1 :)

    You could potentially code some basic stuff that contained security issues or was competing with some of the appstore apps, but you can not save it or share it, and you would probably need to spend 50.000 hours and be world champion in commodore basic :) - it´s NOT possible Apple, it´s theory!

    As much as we would like to let users download all the games from websites they wanted to, we can not support this method ever - as it is illegal and would be unfair to license holders. It would be FUN, but not fair.

    We hope that the HUGE interest on this app can wake up someone at Apple, all we want really, is a fair trial, and not to be rejected on assumptions as now - they have not seen our code (only binary) and they really do not know if we´re violating their rules, they´re guessing.

    By the interest of the app, the biggest winner in all this would infact be Apple, so let´s hope someone will spend 5min really looking at the app soon.

    And... WOW - so many fantastic people out there supporting us, we can never pay you back for this - but we´ll work as hard we can to try at least!!!

    /brian/ceo/manomio

    • Kai Cherry

      My vote of support:

      SYS 49152 ;)

      -K

  • http://www.c64iphone.com Brian Lyscarz

    Hey, great article sorting out most of the confusion, this is exactly why we´re so frustrated. We WANT to make this work for Apple too, if we could just get to talk to them and explain how much work we have putted into this app to AVOID all security issues for Apple - but how??

    As stated in comments earlier, the way to get new games would be to download a new app from appstore (free or payed), this app will contain two buttons, a TRY GAME, for those who do not have C64 app yet (or dont want it) AND an INSTALL button. When you hit install, it closes the "gamepack" and opens up C64 app where the game will be installed into your "gameshellf" together with some artwork and controls specially designet to this game for "casual" players who doesnt want to type "LOAD "*",8,1 :)

    You could potentially code some basic stuff that contained security issues or was competing with some of the appstore apps, but you can not save it or share it, and you would probably need to spend 50.000 hours and be world champion in commodore basic :) - it´s NOT possible Apple, it´s theory!

    As much as we would like to let users download all the games from websites they wanted to, we can not support this method ever - as it is illegal and would be unfair to license holders. It would be FUN, but not fair.

    We hope that the HUGE interest on this app can wake up someone at Apple, all we want really, is a fair trial, and not to be rejected on assumptions as now - they have not seen our code (only binary) and they really do not know if we´re violating their rules, they´re guessing.

    By the interest of the app, the biggest winner in all this would infact be Apple, so let´s hope someone will spend 5min really looking at the app soon.

    And... WOW - so many fantastic people out there supporting us, we can never pay you back for this - but we´ll work as hard we can to try at least!!!

    /brian/ceo/manomio

    • Kai Cherry

      My vote of support:

      SYS 49152 ;)

      -K

  • Orlando

    Why not just do what tap tap revenge does. If you purchase another tap tap game you have the ability to download and use all of those songs and even themes on the "default" app. Seems to me like this will work just fine as long as they design an user "account" system.

    • drunknbass

      i think the only way apple would allow it is if it was bundled with self contained roms.

      and im sure the roms are small enough that you could share them between apps through the keychain system, but even that might be against the tos because its not what the keychain was intended to do.

      the fact that its an EMULATOR is why its so in apples face and why they cant/wont make exceptions

      • Kai Cherry

        DB...all of us "First Liners from the Underground" have had our share of idiot rejections :)

        That said, there are enough emulators and interpreters on the store now to demonstrate yet again the the review process is completely and utterly random and arbitrary, certainly *not* run or supervised be engineers and ultimately worse than Las Vegas odds :)

        -K

      • Drunknbass

        True. And if this app wasn't called an emulator it would have probably slipped through.
        Unless it was denied for other reasons and being an emulator is just a scapegoat ( which I don't doubt )

        and a tad off topic but according to SSS apple keeps tabs on all devs releasing stuff on cydia and they are on an internal shitlist err blacklist inside apple. If that's true that sucks because I don't know 1 dev who makes $ on AppStore who'd turn their back on it to put stuff on cydia.

      • Jim

        @drunknbass
        Does ZodTTD not release in both Cydia and App Store? Or did I misunderstand you?

      • drunknbass

        yes he does and he is prob on this internal shitlist if it does in fact exist.
        there are a number of jailbreak devs who get the shaft and this would explain why.

      • Jim

        The shaft? Anyway, my point is that it hasn't slowed him down at all. I doubt such a list exists in any tangible capacity, though a reviewer's personal biases will surely be the determining factor in some cases.

  • Orlando

    Why not just do what tap tap revenge does. If you purchase another tap tap game you have the ability to download and use all of those songs and even themes on the "default" app. Seems to me like this will work just fine as long as they design an user "account" system.

    • drunknbass

      i think the only way apple would allow it is if it was bundled with self contained roms.

      and im sure the roms are small enough that you could share them between apps through the keychain system, but even that might be against the tos because its not what the keychain was intended to do.

      the fact that its an EMULATOR is why its so in apples face and why they cant/wont make exceptions

      • Kai Cherry

        DB...all of us "First Liners from the Underground" have had our share of idiot rejections :)

        That said, there are enough emulators and interpreters on the store now to demonstrate yet again the the review process is completely and utterly random and arbitrary, certainly *not* run or supervised be engineers and ultimately worse than Las Vegas odds :)

        -K

      • Drunknbass

        True. And if this app wasn't called an emulator it would have probably slipped through.
        Unless it was denied for other reasons and being an emulator is just a scapegoat ( which I don't doubt )

        and a tad off topic but according to SSS apple keeps tabs on all devs releasing stuff on cydia and they are on an internal shitlist err blacklist inside apple. If that's true that sucks because I don't know 1 dev who makes $ on AppStore who'd turn their back on it to put stuff on cydia.

      • Jim

        @drunknbass
        Does ZodTTD not release in both Cydia and App Store? Or did I misunderstand you?

      • drunknbass

        yes he does and he is prob on this internal shitlist if it does in fact exist.
        there are a number of jailbreak devs who get the shaft and this would explain why.

      • Jim

        The shaft? Anyway, my point is that it hasn't slowed him down at all. I doubt such a list exists in any tangible capacity, though a reviewer's personal biases will surely be the determining factor in some cases.

  • Adams Immersive

    The "other apps" method sounds cumbersome anyway. Sell the content as in-app purchases, and away we go :)

    Good luck with the app, and count me in!

  • Adams Immersive

    The "other apps" method sounds cumbersome anyway. Sell the content as in-app purchases, and away we go :)

    Good luck with the app, and count me in!

  • Alex from Germany

    Nice words Brian!
    As a long time C64 addict you have my support, too.
    And of lots more people i've spoken to ;-)
    Don't give up!

  • Alex from Germany

    Nice words Brian!
    As a long time C64 addict you have my support, too.
    And of lots more people i've spoken to ;-)
    Don't give up!

  • DnP

    What can you do with basic interpreter? Hack the matrix? Or Steve's MB air? LoL... I don't get it... You can't get out of the emulator with a simpe 8bit commands... there is no
    10 HACK APPLE'S Servers
    20 KILL everyone
    30 GOTO 10

    Just some fun stuff... Apple, did you hear that?

  • DnP

    What can you do with basic interpreter? Hack the matrix? Or Steve's MB air? LoL... I don't get it... You can't get out of the emulator with a simpe 8bit commands... there is no
    10 HACK APPLE'S Servers
    20 KILL everyone
    30 GOTO 10

    Just some fun stuff... Apple, did you hear that?

  • Chris

    Just the thought of (potentially) getting the chance to play Montezuma's Revenge again is enough to get me to write Mr. Jobs (or someone else with the authority) an email.

    If anyone from manomio is reading this please include Montezuma's Revenge in one of your game packs!

    Apple will come to its senses eventually. I've learned that if enough of us get mad at them they usually capitulate. I really don't think they want any bad App Store/iPhone PR right now with the just released iPhone 3G S.

    • Jim

      That was one of my favorites. I didn't know it was a C64 game. I had the DOS version. There was, for a time, also a game called 'Jack or 100 Ways to BBQ' which was an iPhone clone of Montezuma's Revenge. I was going to share the link but it appears to have been removed from the App Store. Pity.

      http://www.whatsoniphone.com/screen_dumps/Jack_or_100_Ways_to_Barbecue.jpg

      • Chris

        Thanks for the link Jim.

        I used to play it on my Tandy 1000 EX myself, but was aware of it being available on other platforms as well.

        Seeing the C64 brought back to life in this emulator just reminds me of my youth. All the joys of having to zero your X and Y axis with levers on the joystick or the fact that you had to actually know commands to do anything is something the youth of this generation will never understand.

        I'm just grateful that developers, manomio in this case, see the value in preserving history and the many fond memories many of us older iPhone/iPod Touch users have.

    • http://manomio.com Stuart Carnie

      We're definitely listening mate - great game - we just need to track down the license holder's and we'll work on it!

      Cheers,

      Stuart
      CTO, Manomio

  • Chris

    Just the thought of (potentially) getting the chance to play Montezuma's Revenge again is enough to get me to write Mr. Jobs (or someone else with the authority) an email.

    If anyone from manomio is reading this please include Montezuma's Revenge in one of your game packs!

    Apple will come to its senses eventually. I've learned that if enough of us get mad at them they usually capitulate. I really don't think they want any bad App Store/iPhone PR right now with the just released iPhone 3G S.

    • Jim

      That was one of my favorites. I didn't know it was a C64 game. I had the DOS version. There was, for a time, also a game called 'Jack or 100 Ways to BBQ' which was an iPhone clone of Montezuma's Revenge. I was going to share the link but it appears to have been removed from the App Store. Pity.

      http://www.whatsoniphone.com/screen_dumps/Jack_or_100_Ways_to_Barbecue.jpg

      • Chris

        Thanks for the link Jim.

        I used to play it on my Tandy 1000 EX myself, but was aware of it being available on other platforms as well.

        Seeing the C64 brought back to life in this emulator just reminds me of my youth. All the joys of having to zero your X and Y axis with levers on the joystick or the fact that you had to actually know commands to do anything is something the youth of this generation will never understand.

        I'm just grateful that developers, manomio in this case, see the value in preserving history and the many fond memories many of us older iPhone/iPod Touch users have.

    • http://manomio.com Stuart Carnie

      We're definitely listening mate - great game - we just need to track down the license holder's and we'll work on it!

      Cheers,

      Stuart
      CTO, Manomio

  • Fokion

    Wizball, Forbidden Forest 1&2, Last Ninja series, Katakis, Turrican, IK/+, Gianna sisters, Aztec Challenge, Cybernoid, Delta, Uridium, Wizkid, Feud, sigh.

    My first gaming system which I bought with my own hard-earned cash.

  • Fokion

    Wizball, Forbidden Forest 1&2, Last Ninja series, Katakis, Turrican, IK/+, Gianna sisters, Aztec Challenge, Cybernoid, Delta, Uridium, Wizkid, Feud, sigh.

    My first gaming system which I bought with my own hard-earned cash.