While Nintendo hilariously won’t admit that its struggling Nintendo 3DS is competing against the mobile market in addition to the traditional handheld one, Sony made it clear this afternoon that phones are, indeed, real competition for the PS Vita. How so? By confirming tons of support that is typically reserved for phones. Twitter, Skype, Foursquare, Facebook, and Internet browsing will be available as tack-on apps eventually via PSN. In a more convincing move for us, the publisher confirmed plans to put every single game that comes to the Wi-Fi and 3G-enabled platform up for download.

This news comes on the heels of news that Sony was loaning PS Vita dev kits to indie devs, which for us at least, indicates that its somewhat serious about courting the same kinds of developers that flourish on the App Store.

Provided pricing stays at sane levels, PSN on the Vita seems like it has the potential to be a really interesting platform in the future. I mean, imagine downloading an Uncharted game for the same price as, say, a Final Fantasy Tactics [$15.99]. That would be competitive, which is a word that we never use when discussing Nintendo’s troubled e-Shop.

But, to be clear, that’s just tinfoil speculation -- our collective, TIME-award winning guts are pretty convinced that even the downloads of retail, package games will continue to sit at retail, package prices. To be fair, though, PSN is definitely the most flexible of the three big platforms, so anything is possible.

We'll note here that the PSP offers a couple of these apps. It also has an extensive game download service, but obviously, Sony was never able to wrangle in all the platform's releases. Current consoles also boast some of these apps. Simply, our take on this news is that the strength of this overall Vita package is a direct attempt to rival the all-around functionality and ease of phones and phone gaming.

Anyway, we’ll keep our eyes on the $250 PS Vita as its 2012 launch creeps ever closer. The gamer side of me really wants it to succeed, but man, it’s going to one heck of a climb to the top -- if it's even possible for it to get there anymore.

UPDATE: Looks like earlier reports jumped the gun; these apps may or may not be available at launch. We'll see.

[Via 1UP]

  • Iowa_heretic666

    i'm gonna laugh at you when the ds vs psp situation happens again

    the 3ds will prevail, you just dont see it coming

    psvita is a crappy ps3, the price cut on the ps3 will make the homeconsole compete with the handheld and divide their sales while the 3ds with an entirely different lirbary will prevail

    • Anonymous

      I have to agree here.  The only thing that's hilarious here is that everyone forgets Nintendo has the mobile market on lockdown.

      YES iOS games are fun distractions, but anyone that's serious about mobile gaming will own a 3DS.  It's turbulent start was due to Nintendo's greed.  They mistook the enthusiasm at the 3DS' E3 unveiling to mean "we can charge anything for this".  Obviously this was a huge mistake, but they made the right move quickly slashing it's price.  Not to mention once ANY Pokemon game launches on this thing it's going to explode in sales. 

      You know...Iwata was right.  This notion that all handheld games should be on smartphones and cost a
      dollar are killing the mobile industry. The enthralling 12+ hour
      adventures we had on the go are nothing more than 5 minute burst on a
      button-less controller.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5FLRQI2X2LU3IHMCG7HEAEFD5I Cat Astrophy

        20 years doesn't mean their reign will never end. Nintendo refuses to move forward. They WILL (and already are) paying the price for being stubborn.

      • Anonymous

        Oh don't get me wrong Mr. Astrophy, I'm not saying they can sit on their collective hands because they've been super successful in the past.  I just mean they have a solid track record.

        I believe the eShop is going to be a pretty huge hit for Nintendo.  It's not going to have anywhere near the same awesome deals as iOS, but it will be worth it for decent controls.  I mean I'd rather pay 4.99 for Zenonia on the 3DS than 2.99 for the same game on the iPhone.  When it comes to games like that I prefer physical controls.  And I think (HOPE!) other people will soon come to realize the same.

        iOS has it's place.  The games are cheap and fun, hell occasionally they're unlike anything found on ANY platform (I'm looking at you Sword and Sorcery!), but let's be honest here, they're mostly not in the same league as DS/PSP games.  I believe gamers on the go still want that deep experience.

        There's definitely a place for the 3DS and Vita in a post iOS world.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5FLRQI2X2LU3IHMCG7HEAEFD5I Cat Astrophy

        3DS requires WiFi. Mobile Phones do not. That is the #1 reason eShop will not take off. A smartphone literally lets you do everything anywhere a PC does minus only the constraints of the power of the device (which usually at least matches everything up to just before current gen consoles). You can't beat combining an essential (phone) with a strong desire (gaming) into one device. Non-phone handhelds still sell because of small children, but they do NOT make up the majority of the purchases. Killer exclusive titles are the only reason non-phone handhelds can still sell enough to profit which is why N won't do it. IMO they should just go Sega's route and make their top tier software. It will save them a lot of money on overhead. There isn't a huge profit margin on hardware.

        3DS is tanking because they failed miserably to get AAA titles in the launch lineup (or at the very least, shortly thereafter like the DS). The 3D gimmick has clearly proven to not be the primary draw. In the end (for handhelds) it's always about the games.

      • Anonymous

        I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree my friend.  Anything worth a damn on iOS requires Wi-Fi to download.  I can't remember the last time I downloaded a game using 3G...if I did it probably sucked.  So I don't see how this is suddenly a burden for the 3DS.  Also, WiFi is all over the damn place.  I've never been in a situation with my WiFi-only iPad were I was hurting for internet service.

        To your other point, I was also an early adopter for the DS.  Perhaps you're fuzzy about that systems launch so let me refresh your memory: There was jack squat to play for nearly a year.  Seriously.  Check out the first run of games released on the DS.  I had to wait nearly a year before the good stuff trickled in.  At least with the 3DS we have Ocarina of Time, Ghost Recon, and Street Fighter 4. 

        Lastly the 3DS is far from tanking.  4 million units sold worldwide without a holiday season is incredibly impressive.

      • SMP

        In regards to parts of this discussion, Its not really a matter of opinion Nintendo is the one banking on their system regardless of what you, the guy above you think of it. I love Nintendo as much as the next guy, you wouldnt believe how much of a....... uh, reaction I would get from hearing the name Super Smash Bros or Mario Kart. But I dont get this belief that the 3DS is destined to repeat Nintendos past success because its a Nintendo handheld nor do I agree with this attitude thats whats there is good enough, it isnt, whether youre satisfied or not.

      • Anonymous

        "I dont get this belief that the 3DS is destined to repeat Nintendos past success because its a Nintendo handheld"

        I apologize for the miscommunication.  I did not mean to make is sound like Nintendo would magically succeed on the success of it's previous handhelds.  I simply believe there's still a place for dedicated mobile gaming devices. 

        Again, people that are serious about mobile gaming are going to own either a 3DS or Vita.  You just can't do traditional games (you know...the stuff you love on home consoles) on a touchscreen.   If Apple suddenly got serious and released a gaming handheld with buttons THEN maybe we could talk about Nintendo and Sony losing the mobile battle.  Neither Nintendo or Sony can compete with them when it comes to their App Store's convenience or price points.  However as it stands, gaming on the iPhone/iPad are just minor distractions.  Other than the rare gem or ports from the DS/PSP; it's mostly 10 minute pop in-pop out gaming. 

      • SMP

        Thank goodness, I thought you were a nintendo fanboy. So, I also agree that theres an audience for dedicated handhelds, but for Nintendo specifically I dont know if that audience is large enough, because thats not the audience that drove Nintendos success with the Wii or the DS. The App store definitely isnt perfect, the ipad nor the iphone sure as hell arent perfect, but its still just a growing platform, and as it is there is such a variety of unique and addictive experiences that I much rather buy 10, 15, or 20 of those on the app store that $40- $120 on the vast majority of whats out or coming to the 3DS. Unlike the ios, presumably the vita as well, remains to be seen, in terms of software and offering any kind of a compelling service, the 3DS comes up short, so for now Id much rather stick with my ipod touch.

      • SMP

        I should have thoroughly read your comment, you brought up price points. Quite frankly, I dont think it will really matter that the ipod or the ipad doesnt have buttons going forward. Theyre obviously never going to add buttons, and I dont really care. I like them too, but thats the individual persons problem, not the devices. Touch controls dont necessarily mean disposable games

      • Anonymous

        Hats off for an respectful conversation ...
        Are we really on the Internetz?

      • http://twitter.com/NOVAinc Lucas

        HA! Try to read this discussion on a cell phone, the sublevel of each reply shrinks and shrinks more to the right side!

      • S Ramisetty

        It's funny cause your comment is the smallest I've seen. It's squished to the right, lol

      • Anonymous

        " I much rather buy 10, 15, or 20 of those on the app store that $40-
        $120 on the vast majority of whats out or coming to the 3DS"

        Heh...reminds me of this comic:

        http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/08/01

        Great points made by all, but now it's time for bed!

      • Jc37

        Nintendo's eshop,in my opinion wont do as well as places such as even the blackberry app world. Most companies are allowing other consumers and devs to mess around with the hardware of their handheld or mobile phone. This is why i think the psvita will become a much more wanted item as it is just like taking a ps3 on the go. Now dont get me wrong the 3DS has a amazing possibilities, the problem is i can see most big companies such as Activision wont want to spend their time developing for it, as they could just develop for ps vita which is similar to the ps3. The success of the system will only go as far as the developers want to take it, overall i think the ps vita would be the ps3 had the ps3 never came out. So fair to say, the ps vita is more of a serious gaming console with some friendly games, while 3DS is still for family.

      • Rgfangmunroe

        Naeem, to take your point a step further- look at the launch of ANY console. With a few exceptions, there is generally jack squat in the early days. You get 1 or 2 good launch titles, then waves of shovelware or proof of concept titles, maybe a couple of decent games for the holidays. Then in year two they pick up. I'm not going to list them all here, but I pulled up lists when debating 3DS with a friend. He said the 3DS was "failing" because its lineup was all ports and sequels, and of course Ridge Racer. So I countered that he must hate his PS2, then. I mean, clearly that flopped, right? If 3DS sucked because its first few months had Street Fighter, DOA, Ridge Racer, Madden, Ghost Recon, Samurai Warriors, then clearly the PS2's line up of um...Street Fighter, DOA, Ridge Racer, Armored Core, and Dynasty Warriors spelled its doom, right???

      • Jim

        4 million may seem like a lot to you, but Nintendo has made it clear that it isn't enough for them. Also, people buying their stocks have also proven that. So much so that they were forced to drop the price to sell their product because barely anybody wanted to buy it at that price range.

      • Haakon r j

        the psp sold 72 mill in 6 years. that is 11 millions in each year. 3ds has sold 4 mill in a half year (the launch year when the device should sell most) this can be turned to 6 mill i think vs psps 11 mill (psp sold more in it first year). so the psv-3ds cant be the same as the psp- ds 

      • Rgfangmunroe

        Wait wait wait. I don't think the smartphone/3G access thing is a fair judgement. I could be wrong. Tho I will say that I have a non-3G iPad and an iPod Touch. So if wi-fi is the devil here, I guess I'm gaming wrong.

        What I'm getting at is... ok, here's an example. Smartphones = accesibility, as you said. However, when the girls at work break out their iPhones and talk about Angry Birds and Words With Friends, I don't equate that as a gamer revolution. That's kind of like how my stepmom, who hated video games, used to steal my Game Boy for Tetris. Or how my grandmother bought a DS for Brain Age, or the runaway success of the Wii based on sales to the "casual" player. But the Wii hitting a new and untapped market didn't tank the 360, did it? GAMERS will decide if the 3DS and Vita are profitable. Now, both companies can only benefit by making their devices more smartphone-esque, but they aren't going to capture that market. All they will do is sway the opinions of folks like us- gamers trying to pick, who are used to iOS.

        And let's be honest- we can't close the lid in the 3DS coffin until the holidays. That will be most telling. With a decent library under its belt, a more robust online selection, and a lower price point similar to their previous devices, they *could* do well this holiday.  If they don't, then that will show that the era is over.

        But keep in mind, PS3 is not considered a failure and has hit its stride. And its Vita is being touted (for example in the above article) as a promising device and likely winner of the two. So let's not forget that the PSP suffered throughout a good chunk of its lifespan, its early game support was horrid, and its competition had a large install base and a cheaper price point. The PS3 was over-priced with a lack of compelling exclusives save for a handful. Its competition was the similar but ahead (software-wise) Xbox with the better online service, and the Wii which was sweeping casual gamers up with its low price and accessibility (of games, obviously the Wii suffered from hardware shortages). Sony didn't even look at their poor sales and drop the price as Nintendo has- they stuck to their guns for years. And they came out ok in the long run.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5FLRQI2X2LU3IHMCG7HEAEFD5I Cat Astrophy

        20 years doesn't mean their reign will never end. Nintendo refuses to move forward. They WILL (and already are) paying the price for being stubborn.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5FLRQI2X2LU3IHMCG7HEAEFD5I Cat Astrophy

        20 years doesn't mean their reign will never end. Nintendo refuses to move forward. They WILL (and already are) paying the price for being stubborn.

      • Anonymous

        "anyone that's serious about mobile gaming will own a 3DS"
        you think 3DS is serious gaming? wow, you're not from this planet, are you?

      • Haakon r j

        wtf the 3ds seems to be a good device, but i dont think sales will start. i mean that expert says after the disepointing sales after the pricedrop just confirme it. I will buy the vita (i buyed a 3ds) you say when a new pokemon game will boost the sales, but its the same as saying COD on vita will give it alot off sales alone. and osv is a crappy ps3? wy cant you admit that the vita is a great console, and when ps3 is cheaper you could buy a psv and a ps3 for the price off an iphone. the psv will not do the same mistake as the 3ds because sony said that the psv will have the strongest launchline of games ewer made on a device

    • Dan_ruiz79

      Whatever fanboy 3DS is tanking and will never be as good as PS Vita, and it has a year head start. 3DS is a gimmicy joke.

  • http://www.jeffkibuule.com Jeff Kibuule

    They at least see the writing on the wall by these decisions whereas Nintendo would rather stick its fingers in its ears than see the future for what it really is.

    • http://toucharcade.com Eli Hodapp

      What's going to be interesting to watch with the Vita is it seems that Sony, at least in a vague sense, understands why smartphones are successful. What that will amount to, who knows, but if the Vita's user experience is anything like the PS3 the attempt to fit in surely will be entertaining.

  • http://www.twitter.com/flocked flocked

    The dev kit for the PS Vita costs 1900 Euro, so I don't agree that they addressing the same kinds of developers that flourish on the App Store.

    • Mark S.

      Sony also apparently provides loaner dev kits 'free of charge' for the Vita.

      • http://www.twitter.com/flocked flocked

        yes, they provided two or three dev kits for free to get good press.

      • Haakon r j

        67 actually ;)

      • Mike

        You really shouldn't speak when you have no idea what you're talking about.

  • RockingPocket

    Nintendo won't even let you buy their development kit unless your office where you'll use it is in a separate secure location from your home.  PS Vita will thrive if they support developers and have a have a decent online store.

  • Anonymous

    I think the way Nintendo sees it, they would rather staunchly continue to follow it's proud tradition than devolve into the world of 99c games. 

    Nintendo is a company that is passionate about video games and that's all they do. Sony Computer Entertainment doesn't have this heritage, and they've got a huge corporation staring down their backs, so the'll do whatever it takes to stay relevant.SCE is a division that primarily aims to get Sony devices and technologies into people's homes and hands. They need to stay cutting edge if only to support their brand image.

    • Cranky Goomba

      This idea that 99c games are somehow a "devolution" from products available  on Nintendo systems: it just won't stand, no matter how many times it's repeated.

      The overall quality of games on the Wii's download service, for example, is not in any way superior to that of the App Store's games. The only difference I can see is that WiiWare is a great deal more expensive. Seriously: go take a look. The kind of stuff Nintendo and its partners are shilling there is for the most part utterly forgettable.

      I don't own a 3DS, so I can't speak with any authority about the eStore, but €5 for a 3D version of an old NES title? Is this the prestige standard of gaming that Nintendo claims to champion? The fact that someone can buy Helsing's Fire for €0.79 doesn't threaten the standards of game design—it only threatens the ability of the old guard to keep charging silly prices for unremarkable product.

      Look, nothing on iOS matches what Nintendo accomplished in Super Mario Galaxy and its sequel, no argument there. But beyond a small handful of marquee titles, it's overpriced mediocrity all the way to the digital horizon. As a Nintendo fan who hopes that the company will see continued success, I hope to Cthulhu that they're not swallowing their own spin.

      • Anonymous

        I totally agree with your points there. There are innumerable amazing games on iOS that are better than much of what's available on the downloadable stores (WiiWare, eShop, PSP Minis). 

      • Anonymous

        I really disagree with you, but I guess this is a matter of perspective and tastes.

        Lately it seems like every iOS game I look at lately is like this "Hey look you guys we made another endless running game, but it has physics like every other iOS game! You touch the screen to jump over barrels but they have physics so they roll away! That's the whole game! Its like the minigame in Warioland 4, but we're selling it to you for a dollar! We didn't make anything interesting, we just made this! You can jump over mushrooms in our game and that's really funny because mushrooms are in Mario so its a reference! Our game has internet memes and cats in it and its called: I Can Has A Endless Runner! We did it for the lolz you guys, we're so indie!" 

        On the other hand, DSiware has Shantae: Risky's Revenge. That's an actual full featured 2d platformer kind of game with really fantastic pixel art, actual level design, and actual gameplay where you go around fighting, solving puzzles and getting upgrades. That game is 12 dollars, but it is exactly what I want to play on a handheld. Then I look back at iOS. 12 more endless running 99cent canabalt clones have have appeared. Those are exactly what I don't want to play on anything.

      • Anonymous

        I really disagree with you, but I guess this is a matter of perspective and tastes.

        Lately it seems like every iOS game I look at lately is like this "Hey look you guys we made another endless running game, but it has physics like every other iOS game! You touch the screen to jump over barrels but they have physics so they roll away! That's the whole game! Its like the minigame in Warioland 4, but we're selling it to you for a dollar! We didn't make anything interesting, we just made this! You can jump over mushrooms in our game and that's really funny because mushrooms are in Mario so its a reference! Our game has internet memes and cats in it and its called: I Can Has A Endless Runner! We did it for the lolz you guys, we're so indie!" 

        On the other hand, DSiware has Shantae: Risky's Revenge. That's an actual full featured 2d platformer kind of game with really fantastic pixel art, actual level design, and actual gameplay where you go around fighting, solving puzzles and getting upgrades. That game is 12 dollars, but it is exactly what I want to play on a handheld. Then I look back at iOS. 12 more endless running 99cent canabalt clones have have appeared. Those are exactly what I don't want to play on anything.

      • Cranky Goomba

        It's not so much a matter of perspective and taste as it is a matter of intellectual honesty. To represent iOS you chose to describe some unnamed, generic, clone of Canabalt; and then "on the other hand" you offer us a DSiWare gem. Do I have to point out how absurdly dishonest this is? I can't even call it "spin" —spin is supposed to be at least broadly plausible. Do I really have to point you towards the many iOS games that match the standard of Shantae? Do I really have to list the many shovelware titles that clutter Nintendo's dowload services? 

        Instead of doing that, I'll just ask a simple question:

        Do you -sincerely- believe that Shantae: Risky's Revenge accurately represents the overall quality of games available via WiiWare and DSiWare?

      • Anonymous

        No dude, there aren't really a lot of games that genuinely match Shantae in my mind. Rolando 1 & 2 are among the only ones I really feel genuinely fit that bill. Rolando has a similar level of diversity in terms of level design and gameplay, a similar level of great presentation, and moreover it feels perfect in terms of interface.

        What the app store has otherwise is a large library of games that I like, I think they are really neat little games, but ultimately they fall flat for me and are too insubstantial. They tend to be held back by control issues or just boiling things down to bare essentials.

      • Cranky Goomba

        Hmm. You acknowledge that there's at least two titles on the App Store that match the quality of Shantae. So why didn't you pick one of the Rolando games to represent iOS gaming rather than "Endless Running Strawman"? Also, I notice you've chosen not to answer my question about how many WiiWare and DSiWare titles match the quality of Shantae.

  • Jim

    The Vita will definitely outshine the 3DS. It already has a vast superior launch lineup, the price is right, and doesn't force the 3D gimmick on you.

    • Rgfangmunroe

      3DS doesn't force the gimmick on you. Unless you realllllly want to play Face Invaders. I play most of my games in 2D, aside from maybe a big scene or cut scene. I wear glasses, so the slider hurts my eyes.

      And why do people talk about Vita like it HAS a launch line-up yet? Last I checked, it doesn't even have a definite US launch DATE. What it has is the EXACT same kind of fan-dream list the 3DS had floating around, as devs promised to make entries in their franchises for the system. There's very little difference. Sony's going to rock it with Uncharted, Killzone (I think), and LBP. But Nintendo will Mario, Kid Icaurs, Mario Kart out the gate, as well as Ocarina of Time and Star Fox. 3DS has Ghost Recon Shadow Wars, Vita gets GLWG. 3DS got SF4, Vita gets SF x Tekken. Both get BlazBlue 2, Ridge Racer, Madden, etc. Vita gets Silent Hill, 3DS gets Resident Evil. 3DS gets MGS3, Vita showcases possible MGS4 (YMMV on which you prefer). Vita gets a promised Dynasty Warriors, 3DS has Samurai Warriors.

      ET CETERA, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.

      • SMP

        Those games are hardly as comparable as you list them out to be, definitely not at the same $40 price point. That said, the launch is still a mystery, but everything thats been shown/announced about the vita has been impressive and exciting, but obviously that doesnt matter if the launch and the execution of these features fall flat.

      • Rgfangmunroe

        "Comparable" is opinion. I personally like LBP, but I love Mario. I listed the 1st party IPs to compare, and I think in sales the two companies are competitive. Which is "better" is subjective. I don't much care for Killzone or Resistance, but sunk hours into Twilight Princess and New Super Mario Bros Wii. So, it comes down to taste. If you for a second think that Super Mario 3D Land and Mario Kart 7 won't sell, you are mistaken. GLWG is a solid and constant game on my iPad. Ghost Recon Shadow Wars was my first 3DS purchase and I still play it. I'll call them "comparable" and stand by it. MGS4 is the technically "superior" game, based on the system it was made for. But, while it is a good game, Snake Eater is my favorite in the franchise. So which do you think I'm more excited for? Again, comes down to personal preference. I'm assuming "Untitled Dynasty Warriors" for Vita will be comparable to Samurai Warriors on 3DS, because EVERY "Warriors" game they've made since Dynasty Warriors 2 has been the same darn game. And you really don't think Resident Evil Revelations will be able to stand up to Silent Hill - Book of Memories? I'm pretty sure RE outsells SH as it is. I'm not insulting SH. If you thought I meant Mercenaries, fair point. But I was thinking of Revelations, and I'm pretty sure that will hold its own. So where is it that you disagree on games being "comparable?" And what is your criteria for comparison?

      • Mark S.

        Metal Gear Solid HD (2+3 being Subsistence -- MG + MG2 included -- Japan gets PSN MGS, NA gets Peace Walker HD) has been confirmed along with Konami's TransFarRing system.

        I'm most excited about Z.O.E., but Metal Gear will probably be more suited to handheld.

      • Rgfangmunroe

        Isn't that for the consoles, though?

      • Rgfangmunroe

        Isn't that for the consoles, though?

      • Mark S.

        Hmm, I suppose I should renege on that "confirmed" aspect. Transfarring involves the NGP and was advertised as being a feature for both MGS HD and ZOE HD. It's possible that only the Peace Walker game involved in the MGS HD involves Transfarring (as the title is available for the PSP and thus the backwards compatible -- if downloaded -- NGP). But then since no portable ZOE games are for Sony handhelds, it's inferable that they and the other MGS HD games will be available (in some form) for the NGP. Hopefully I haven't made too big of a logical leap there.

      • Rgfangmunroe

        If that's true...that would be AMAZING.

      • SMP

        Content and features, and almost all of the games that you bring up as comparisons except for the Nintendo games that arent remakes are (presumably) lacking in both and are technically inferior games. Its not a matter of preference to determine what these games bring to the table if one side comes up short but launches at the same price their competitors games. Im not saying Nintendos games wont sell, in fact theyre theyre probably the only ones that'll sell, but as it stands, the rest of the systems offerings are lacking in comparison to whats been shown on the Vita

      • SMP

        And to quickly jot down a few things, I was thinking of Mercenaries, Revelations will probably be better, the MGS4 thing was a demo, who the hell knows what or when the vita MGS will come, but it'll probably be a hell of a lot better than a $40 rerelease, and Ive got nothing to say about Dynasty Warriors, I couldnt even care less about that game.

      • Rgfangmunroe

        Well, I should clarify (I dont think I was clear on this) that I am not comparing the two launches. I am comparing what we know currently for both systems, the pre-release speculation that surrounded both, and the launch of Vita to what will then be available on 3DS. It's a no-brainer that Vita's launch will (or, rather, should) outshine the 3DS.

        But a lot of people talk like when Vita comes out, it will be at the same price point as the 3DS and all 3DS will have is Street Fighter and an old Zelda port. Simply untrue.

        As for the game comparisons, I guess we should agree to disagree. I do think you are being speculative, though. I mean, how can we say that "Untitled Ridge Racer" won't be a port or maybe enhanced port of Ridge Racer 3D? If it is a new game, how do we know it won't be cross-platform? Who's to say if Snake Eater 3D does well that Konami won't develop MGS for both systems? I already clarified that I think RE Revelations will stand tall and be competitive with Silent Hill. Everything else, the 1st party titles it will come down to preference. There will probably be more "tech" on display for the Sony ones. but that's true of Uncharted and Killzone on consoles, and I still prefer a solid Zelda and Mario.

        The only other things I mentioned were Street Fighter, Madden, and BlazBlue. We don't know what features SF x T will have, and it will be a strong title. But that doesn't invalidate SF4 as a good title, and you can already find that for $25 or less if you know where to shop. Ditto DOA. We have two solid console-worthy fighters on 3DS, and no word that SF x T ISN'T coming to 3DS at some point. So I say comparable/competitive between the two systems. BlazBlue is being upgraded, but the 3DS version will likely be cheaper by then. Enhanced ports aren't something new, and they don't tank the worth of the original release's system. Madden?  C'mon, that'll go to both. They'll be shipping a new release by then onto everything they can push it on and then some.

      • SMP

        The thing about your comment is that youre cherry picking games to compare against one another, and Its certainly a case by case basis, but even then I cant imagine why someone would look at a 3DS game and its Vita counterpart, and decide they might as well get the 3DS one unless they already own one. Yes Nintendos games usually stand out, Id consider Super Mario 3D the only game Ive seen that seems to really justify a 3DS+ $40 purchase, and maybe Mario Kart. Im not saying the 3DS doesnt have games, but as whole the Vita has a much better rounded catalog in its entirety. And I want to be clear that Im not trying to tell you "haha 3DS sux!", I dont want to rub anyone the wrong way, I just dont see how someone can look at both game catalogs suggest that the 3DS's is comparable, its just not, and if you think it is, youre either wrong or in denial.

      • Rgfangmunroe

        Which is why I said that this argument is largely subjective. I also say speculative. If you have a resource to share on Vita games, please do share. I've seen early previews, consisting of blurbs a handful of screenshots. In a lot of cases, they don't even have official names or box art yet. Upcoming 3DS titles have larger previews, games near the end of development, release dates, hands on time, trailers etc.

        I've only been able to find a trailer for LBP. It looks good, but I'm pretty sure Mario will be a competitive choice. It has a much larger brand name, looks to be equally impressive in different ways, and will launch sooner. It just seems like you're talking like this is pre-launch and the in-depth previews are out and we all have our pre-orders. 3DS is going to have a holiday season at a reduced price point before Vita launches, which will give it an installed base for their titles. Are Mom and Dad going to drop $250-300 for for Modnation Racers, or get little Timmy a 3DS for $80+ less for Christmas and then pick him up Mario Kart?

        Also, to be clear, I'm saying the two systems are comparable. I know the specs of the Vita are superior. But the same was true of PSP and DS, and I think they were comparable. And sales tell that DS won the last portable generation. Hell, the Game Gear was stronger than Game Boy, and which was undisputed king? It seems like you see Uncharted on the horizon and are saying "GG Nintendo." I just think that's premature. By comparable, I mean overall libraries (comparing what WILL be out for 3DS by the time Vita launches to what Vita has promised for launch, and also what 3rd party support has been pledged for both). Sony launched its strong 1st party IPs with PS3 (except for Killzone). I'm asking for your "research" not to be flippant, but because I have done my own and would like to compare viewpoints. On the games, I have Sony's own site and GameStop open. I also have the latest Game Informer, which has a holiday 3DS preview. Nintendo has ONE feather in the Wii's cap- Skyward Sword. Aside from that, their focus is on 3DS. And I think it looks good. Sony is touting Uncharted, LBP, Modnation, various sports titles, Wipeout, that AR fighter, Ruin, Sound Shapes, and Gravity. While the big 3 aren't my preference, those will obviously move units. And some of the other games look promising (I have my eye on SS and Gravity, personally). Also, Dragon's Crown looks fantastic. On the Nintendo side, though? I am chomping at the bit for Ace Combat, Star Fox, Mario, Mario Kart, Bit.Trip Saga, Harvest Moon, Snake Eater 3D, Shinobi, Kid Icarus, Tales of the Abyss, Kingdom Hearts Dream Drop Distance, RE: Revelations, Contra, Paper Mario, Sonic Generations, Tekken, Transformers: War For Cybertron 2, SMT: Devil Survivor Overclocked, Prof Layton vs Ace Attorney, and Heroes of Ruin. And I dunno how to treat backwards compatibility here. I'm not talking about existing libraries, but upcoming ones. PSP support seems to be dead but DS isn't. So, since I DS game on my 3DS, it will be the machine I play Dragon Quest Monsters Joker 2, Aliens: Infestation, Ace Attorney Investigations 2, and Kirby (and downloadable DSiWare Zelda 4 Swords). Also looking forward to my ambassador downloads.

        I am prepared to agree to disagree though. I think what we consider comparable differs greatly (which is fine). Just so you know, I played FF13 for about 2 and a half hrs and sold it. But Radiant Historia and Golden Sun: Dark Dawn are two of my favorite recent RPGs. I'd probably rather play Chrono Trigger DS to most of what came out on the console JRPG scene. And just so you don't think I'm a retro Nintendo fanboy, I am still sinking hours into Fallout: New Vegas and have a replay of Mass Effect 1 and (eventually) 2 going to polish a transfer save for 3.

        I own a 3DS (since launch) and have my sights set on the Vita as well. I see the value in both. So, from my perspective, I think they both rock, both have a lot of potential. I also am personally more excited for upcoming 3DS games. That's just my opinion, though.

        Sry this one was so long-winded. My browser ate my initial reply, I wrote another in notepad, and when I came back it had saved my first. So this is a two-for.

      • SMP

        Speculation is all I can make, but if the Vitas promised lineup comes through, it will be undeniably superior. Im not  saying the 3DS doesnt have games, but for the most part it comes up short. The reasons why I believe youre wrong (and I dont consider this a matter of opinion), are because your list consists of games that are questionably 3DS games or are just remakes, without both of which, the system has little left to stand on. The remakes are filler, enjoyable games, but theyre being substituted as  major releases in absense of something new. There are tons of rereleases on PS3/360, but theyre supplementary releases to the dozen of games also availble, thats not the case with the 3DS. The questionable ones are the games that in no way take significant advantage of the 3DS features, new and old, they look DS games, in fact, if there's one thing the 3DS fails to do, its distinguishing itself, to a parent it  sounds like a regular DS with 3D, they just as likely may buy a cheaper DS lite instead, or accidentally get a 3DS game for their kids DS. Many of the vitas games promise to make use of the systems features in ways they never could on the PSP. Many are technically superior games that will be able ultilize the touch contols and the systems online features, even for singleplayer games. The system actually holds the promise to distinguish itself as a gamimg handheld, which the 3DS just hasnt done. With the 3DS, there's enjoyment to be had and there are a few diamonds in the rough. I love SSF4, and Im sure the mario games and Luigis Mansion will be great, but even so it still doesnt compare to what the Vita promises to have, it doesnt distinguish itself enough to make its self comparable to the Vita and no amount of personal preference changes that.

      • SMP

        What Im really trying to say is that the promise of the Vita is much stronger than what we already know and have seen regarding the 3DS. Whether or not it'll sell is uncertain, but everything is there for the system to launch as a superior handheld (and Im not comparing launches), we just need to see it come to together, thats the only concern.

      • Rgfangmunroe

        Yes, but if you look at the pre-release buzz and promised support at this point prior to 3DS' launch it was largely similar. So at this point it IS a matter of opinion, largely due to the speculative nature of your argument. Not only that, but the 3DS IS in the DS family... making the point of (paraphrased) "Vita will be superior due to touchpad controls" to me is more like...welcome to the party, Sony. It will be very interesting to see how the features are implemented and if they exceed the 3DS' second/touch screen. But having two screens, one touch, is hardly new.

        I also think you're judging a bit with blinders on. I think if you look at the 1st year of many systems, especially in the last couple of generations, you'll see some 1st party and the occasional 3rd party gem supplemented by easy-to-produce filler titles (shovelware, ports, sequels).Few systems "hit their stride" right out the gate.

        The GBA had, in my opinion, ONE stellar launch title. Castlevania: Circle of the Moon. They also had the Mario 2 port. Mileage may vary here, but most of what came there were ports or portable attempts at sequels that didn't quite hit the mark.

        The DS- hands down its best launch game was Mario 64. Its competition was The Urbz, Feel the Magic, Madden, Spider-man 2, and Asphalt.

        Were these systems failures? Was the DS crushed by the technically "superior" PSP (who's own launch was only truly distinguished by Lumines)? No. Nor is it fair of me to say history will repeat. Which I am not, to be clear. I am saying it is far to early to call.

        And I listed a lot of games in my last post, a good deal of which are not ports/re-releases. I can't believe we're going to sit here and say these games will all be utterly lacking in worthwhile features compared to Uncharted based pretty much on some screen shots. We know it has touch controls, but so did the two Zeldas on DS (nad half that systems library). We know it has tilt aiming, but so does Ocarina 3D. For comparison, Ocarina of Time on the N64 (according to VGChartz, for fact-checking purposes) sold close to 8 million during its life cycle. Uncharted II is about 3 mil below that. Ocarina 3D is over a million, and hit half a mil worldwide in the first week. Not too shabby for the 4th release of a title on this supposedly flailing system that no one apparently owns or would want to buy (if one listens to its critics). I'm not saying Vita or Uncharted WONT sell. Just saying it will be competitive (unless Sony gets real lucky and breaks all conventions- which is purely speculation).

        But I do think it is disingenuous to act like Ocarina getting an upgraded port is a bad or lazy thing when the DS was praised for having its only solid launch title be an inferior version of Mario 64 (multiple characters aside).

      • SMP

        Im not saying remakes are bad, Im saying that theyre supplementary releases that make for bad substitutes. Again, Im saying Its the promise of what the Vita offers that makes it undeniably superior, when a lot of the 3DS games were revealed/released, they turned out to be, and still are, remakes or DS quality games. Whats the point of releasing a new system if most of its games fail to distinguish it from its predecessor?, and thats what Im saying the Vita promises to do, where the 3DS mostly fails to. I dont get why youre referencing these past handhelds, yes they were successful, but that just highlights the fact that Nintendo failed to leverage the DS's success, theyve sold their past handhelds, now they need to sell their new one, which theyre struggling at. This is all sometwhat speculative, but thats a completely dismissive attitude to have, as there are also facts, factually speaking, from the 40+ games, and the wide range of features announced everything is there for Sony to have a critically if not commercially spectacular launch, and the momentum to keep going forward. Im not saying the Vita will sell either, I dont know if it will  and  they could totally screw it up, but theyve had more than enough time to react properly, and I think these announcements are indicitive of that. There is not an argument to be made, the potential for the Vita is far greater than the 3DS, that should be obvious to anyone who looks at what the two offer.

      • Rgfangmunroe

        I still would like to see your figures and what not. That's not meant as a snide challenge. But I have been running off sales figures and announced titles for both and discussing features. You're using vagueries like "the launch," "the titles," and "the features." I had to guess that the features you meant were the motion controls and touch screen based on my own research. I'll tell you one thing- there are not 40+ launch titles announced. And in their number are plenty of ports/remakes that aren't being mentioned by you. BlazBlue II, Oddworld: Munch's Oddysee, Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath, Rayman Origins, Mortal Kombat, SF x Tekken, Dungeon Hunters, Lego Harry Potter, Michael Jackson: The Experience, Hustle Kings, Great Little War Game, Disgaea 3, Dungeon Defenders... and then there's all the games with no details. "Untitled Ridge Racer" "Untitled Assassin's Creed" "Untitled Dynasty Warriors" "Untitled Killzone" "Untitled Lumines" "Untitled Bioshock." So that's 13 ports or later cross-platform titles (I count them, because obviously they won't maximize either systems potential since they have to be constructed to work within general similarities of both). And at least 6 "we don't know anything except that they may at some point exist" titles. And, of course, the launch titles which I discussed in an earlier post. We may disagree at which looks more promising, but I am actually saying the two offer different but competitive choices and that it is too early to call the fight. You are claiming what you see as a clear knockout, so I'm just asking to see your research, man.

        I'll raise you this, though. If you have a problem with the DS having "filler" in the form of ports/remakes/multiplatformers, then I call a spade a spade. Vita's going to have them too. But guess what, so did 360 (remember King Kong?). While there are some DS-ish titles (Ghost Recon, good as it is, could have been on DS. Harvest Moon IS on DS), if you think every title is just a DS-quality game you are wrong. The DS had to trick itself into emulating Mario 64 (I mean emulating in its pure definition, not calling the engine an emulator). Ocarina and Star Fox are upgrades beyond the 64 versions. Snake Eater 3D is a port of a PS2 title. DOA looks as good as any console iteration. Resident Evil Revelations looks, honestly, like a 360 game almost. I haven't seen it in motion yet, but it has serious promise. And there are plenty of upcoming titles that look good. Mario? I still maintain that it will be a good source of competition for LBP, and it looks as good or better than the Wii titles.

        I'm just saying that the pre-release speculation and promised support is/was similar for both, and both have unique assets to offer. If you still maintain that this is flawed and it is "clear" that Vita is completely superior in every way and its software will crush...let's hear specifics from you. Show your work, why do you think so? I think it is a fair request, as I have gone on at great length to back up my point of view.

      • SMP

        When I said that there are 40+ games for the system I didnt mean at launch, that was worded horribly, I meant that there are enough quality games announced to guarantee a good launch and strong momentum should it sell well enough. Not to sound hostile, but as it stands, youre still flat out wrong about the 3DS regardless of whether I agree or disagree with you. The difference between the promise of the 3DS and the Vita is that the 3DS already fell flat on its own The Vita seems likely to come through beyond speculation because its largely leveraging the PS3 for games and features, which is its biggest selling point and complaint. And its perfectly valid to say "why do I want that if I already own a PS3?", and to that person, yes its redundant, but at least its guaranteed a large stable of new games that we already know are good on the PS3, and its being supplemented by original games as well. With the 3DS, you have games that fall into four catagories: shovelware/remakes/DS quality/3DS quality games, the first three being predominant, which casts considerable doubt on third party support and just leaves software quality all over the place. You can make all the excuses you want for their remakes, I want new games that highlight the systems strengths, the 3DS doesnt do enough of that, those factors undeniably favor the Vita, because the Vita has a much more consistent stable of games.

      • SMP

        If you still have a response, dont post it as a reply, we've overstretched our comments, just post it as a new comment, and I'll be glad to tell you why youre still wrong.

      • Rgfangmunroe

        Replied below :)

      • Anonymous

        Vita hardware is impressive, sure. The price is also impressive. But you'd have to enjoy Sony's first party games to be excited for what has been announced (MGS4 and Lost Planet demos ran at 10 frames per second...). I might get a Vita if it has games I like on it. Sony first party games gave their fanbase, but it's not huge. LBP and Uncharted will sell to early adopters and Sony fans I'm sure. The thing is that its 2011 and Vita just looks like the PSP from 2004. The extra analog stick is not a huge deal that gamers are making it out to be. Gyro controls (NOT tilt controls btw, gyro, which gives an augmented reality experience as if you have a 'camcorder') are going to become the preferred way to play FPS on portables. Unless you don't have the room to move like on an airplane.

      • Anonymous

        I was upset with the resolution on my 3DS until I turned off the effect and notice that the horizontal pane doubled the pixels. Why does nobody mention this? When they do, they call it 'anti-aliasing' except the PICA GPU can't do AA without super sampling. It would be more efficient for the 3DS to render at 800x240 rather than render at 800x240 and downsample the frame to 400x240 which at that low res wouldn't give you much of an AA effect at all.

        I like the 3D in OOT, but the smoother graphics in 2D make it a good alternative. There are still jaggies because the vertical resolution is still 240, but it is a little bump. If you play the Africa stage in SSF4 you can really notice it by turning down the slider and you'll see the plane smooth out. If you turn of 3D in the menu though it remains at 400x240 but the framerate doubles to 60fps

    • Rgfangmunroe

      Oh, and the price being right- Vita's going to be $250-300. i.e. EXACTLY what ppl hose Nintendo down with hatorade for pricing their system at or more. The 3DS, by that point, will have a yr or so head start and be priced $80-130 less. Just saying.

  • Rgfangmunroe

    What Nintendo NEEDS to do to compete with Sony (let alone the App Store) is open up their fricken online service. With the flexibility of PSN, there is no reason for their to be a WiiWare and 3DsWare. Just have one e-shop. I get why some titles would be exclusive to some platforms (some titles made for Wii, some made for 3D). But... come on, I didn't by Final Fantasy 6 cuz I don't spend RPG-levels of time at my Wii. If it was cross-purchasable for the 3DS that would have ended my social life for a few weeks.

  • TeddyNYC

    Like another poster has stated, the holidays will be the real test for the 3DS. If sales are bad, despite the price drop and a few more desirable titles available, Nintendo will have to finally act like it's 2011, not 2006. How will they do that? A new version of the 3DS with decent battery life, cheaper games like a new Zelda game for $15-20, all games downloadable and more social media integration would be a good start. Making all Nintendo games available for iOS/Android may be next if hardware sales continue to do poorly, despite the improvements. Who knows, maybe the iOS fad will go away and Nintendo will print even more money in a couple of years than ever before.

    • Rgfangmunroe

      The only thing that would make the iOS fad go away is the integration of gaming culture. iOS gains its infamy from offering thousands of games for pocket change prices. But the more the big devs test the waters, the more comfortable they will become with pricing. Kinda like how 1200 Microsoft points is the new 800 (meaning, 800 used to = premium title, now those cost 1200). EA charges like ten bucks for board games, Squeenix is working their way up to $20, who knows what the new version of GOF2 will cost. Eventually they'll hit $20. If it sells, devs will know they can ask for it. I predict iPad just becoming a more convenient computer.

      • Anonymous

        I agree that's where we're headed. At the same time, I don't see it being a problem unless something is over-priced. Is FFT overpriced at FFT? In my opinion no considering the content available. But I can understand why people would complain. It's $10 on PSP, $10 would've been a better price. They do plan to add retina support though. Is FF3 worth $15? More than FFT if you ask me considering the DS version sells for that price and the iOS version is far superior to the DS version.

        If devs are going to care about the platform they need to make money. EA can afford to take risks and have occasional .99 sales. Some of their games could easily be $20+ on PSP/DS as could many iOS games. But many are still not as 'polished' as their console offerings. Madden looks and plays great but is buggy and missing a franchise mode. For .99 which is what I paid, it's a steal. But I would pay more for those add-ons.

        Speaking of add-ons, the 'shareware' model of offering something for free, the additional levels/cars/characters/etc. cost extra of one lump sum completes the game... it could work if it was implemented better than gameloft implements it. For example, pretend mario kart was on ios. It was a free download. For a free download you get one character and one track. You can unlock circuits and player bundles for DLC and you also get gamecenter online play by doing so. Or you can pay $20 for the whole thing.

        Anyways, what I'm saying is it is inevitable that there will be more expensive games. There are full-length high-quality games on iOS right now and some are a steal. But there could be more and the pricing expectation is what is holding them back (than and elitist gamer snob attitudes)

    • Smurt

      I don't think iOS is going anywhere soon. Biggest reason? The upper limit of age on gamers is slowly inching upwards, and the ipad/phone/pod is a much more socially acceptable mobile gaming device than a 3DS or Vita. A 30 or 40 year old playing a game in public on an iphone looks like a guy killing some time on a plane or on the bus; a 30 or 40 year old playing a Nintendo system looks like a geeky man-child. 

      • Rgfangmunroe

        This is true. I break out the iTouch and ppl think I have an iPhone and don't know/care what I'm doing. I break out the DS or PSP and people give me that "uh huh..." look.

  • Ricky minaj

    Nintendo fan boys

  • Ricky minaj

    Iowa_heretic666Your a novice

  • Ricky minaj

    Iowa_heretic666Your a novice

  • stlredbird

    I love my iPhone 4 and I love my 3DS. I obviously get way more use out of my iPhone. It's always with me, it's convenient. But I prefer playing games on my 3DS.

  • Anonymous

    Over the long run both the Vita and 3DS have their work cut out. Smartphone development will over run these static platforms.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ngohuyq Huy Ngo

    All points about the Vita are moot until they fix the horrific Playstation Network's actual network issues.  PSN has always been terrible for downloads and just browsing the store in general.  If they actually hire someone with half a brain to manage that they might succeed in competing in the digital download market.

    • DA

      Good try, fanboy.
      But as far as I am concerned, Vita has done something pivotal to the life of the system. A lot of people who see the 3ds are convinced that it is simply a 3D upgrade to the DS, so they see no reason to get it. The Vita, on the other hand, was not named PSP2 for a reason. They wanted it to be different, which will make inexperienced buyers who picked up a DS as a casual gamer and really want to up there game lean to the PSV. I am certainly going to be one of those early adopters!

    • Snipyro

      To be honest I find the PSN store to be quite decent. I've never had trouble finding the best rated games, PSP Minis, whatever I want to find, it's there. Download speeds are fine too, not a problem. The only big problem was the PSN outage where maintenance issues popped up everywhere, nothing could be downloaded, and new accounts couldn't be made on the PSN website. That was terrible, but after that was fixed it was fine. 
       

  • http://twitter.com/teknikal69 P Allen

    I can't wait for the Vita and if it gets apps like IOS that's even better I'm down for buying one on launch even if it doesn't it looks amazing. 
    I don't really like the 3D aspect of the 3DS but the platform will probably thrive now it's at a lower price point I am a little tempted myself just for a real portable copy of SF!V the IOS volt is cut down to much and the touchscreen issues definitely effect my playing.
    What Nintendo needs to address most in my opinion is battery life and really it is the same for apple if they want to be a serious player.
    .

  • S Ramisetty

    While in general a decent, informative article, Brad takes a stab at Nintendo in EVERY nintendo-related article I've read that's written by him. It's mainly the phrasing - starting an article about the PSVita by making remarks about Nintendo comes off as slightly smug/insecure. I understand the 3DS is relevant to the article, but these points would have been much more convincing if you had at least attempted to show both sides of the argument: e.g.: "Nintendo's E-shop is still young", or "the amount of people that purchased a 3DS could take a small chunk out of potential buyers of the Vita...".

    • http://twitter.com/nicholsonb Brad Nicholson

      I can assure you that I want Nintendo to succeed just like everyone else. I don't have a stake in anything, though a preference for iOS. 

      To one of your points, I would argue that the e-Shop isn't young; it's a derivative of the Virtual Console or DSiWare, which have been equally terrible marketplaces full of rookie development efforts, poor pricing models, and general messiness.

      • S Ramisetty

        I agree with your point, it went over my head completely. I don't own a 3DS, I've never had any 1st hand experience with the e-shop. I pretty much completely ignored DSiware with my DS - apart from a browse every now and then, I didn't make any purchases at all. Mainly cause there is a huge list of ios games I've yet to get.

        Cheers.

      • Rgfangmunroe

        I agree that the DSiWare shop was a mess, and the 3DS eshop has room for improvement. But I'm actually ok with the Wii's shop. My big complaint is the lack of demos and the small preview pics. Otherwise, I don't have trouble finding things. I haven't seen the "rookie" side, because I don't tend to go for the iOS-style indie WiiWare. Big fan of the Rebirth series of titles by Konami, for example. I've also generally found pricing for VC fair considering every title on their I once bought or could have bought for $60, I find $5-15 pretty fair. We're ok with paying $16 Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions (not even the iPad version)? Well, $15 for Ogre Battle 64: Person of Lordly Caliber is quite fair.

  • http://twitter.com/TKS1nk Matthew Gula

    I have a few thoughts. The first is that the ds doesn't have that good of games. I liked Mario and the others as a kid, but they aren't fun to me now. The vita is getting killzone, uncharted and COD(no one brings that game up). With the dual analogue sticks and great graphics. I think the psp has the edge. The only thing is, how is PSN? I have never owned a ps3 so I don't really know.

    • Bro

      Once COD comes to the Vita all the Dude bros(FPS junkies) which are ALOT of people by the way will buy the Vita with it's dual analogs in a heartbeat

      • Anonymous

        No they won't. This argument was been made with other games on other portables, most notably Grand Theft Auto on the PSP. Call of Duty is a popular franchise, no doubts there. It's also on every platform out there. Analysts thought Black Ops would not be as successful as MW2. They were wrong, but at some point it's popularity is going to wane.

        MW3 is not slated to be released on Vita and I doubt they would release it late. That means Iron Wold in late 2012 is the only potential Vita CoD game.

        Lastly, eff dual analogs. Ever play a FPS using gyroscope? Might be difficult on say an airplane but around the house it's pretty friggin realistic and gives it an augmented reality feel.

      • Anonymous

        Playing an FPS with a gyroscope is stupid. It's awkward, it requires too much movement and you have to do it while standing or sitting in a spinning chair. "Oh its more realistic" doesn't make a game better. Realism is not synonymous with quality, especially when it comes to control.

        Not only does the Vita have a second stick, it has that trackpad on the back. They could (should) make games where you aim with that. It would give you 1:1 mouse style control without obscuring the screen (you can do the same on a touch screen as some iOS first person shooter do, but with the back touchpad you would have to cover the screen with your thumb).

      • SMP

        As much as I like gyroscope controls, theyre hardly ideal, they work, and Im okay with them, but its an unorthodox way to play those games, and I dont think anything you said is relevant to the likelyhood of Call of Duty selling on the vita. If any game will sell, it will be a portable version of Call of Duty. To this day, people are still insanely obsessed with it, so to be able to take that addictive experience wherever you go, even online, is a strong selling point so I dont see why it wouldnt sell.

      • Haakon r j

        "the only potential Vita CoD game"

        and LBP, uncharted, Bioshock, assasins creed, Wipeout, dust514, ressistance, ruin, Fifa 12 and most likely a Battlefield 3

      • Haakon r j

        and because it does not exsist a xbox portable, the xbox360 fans will buy vita to play fps on the go. because hello the ps3 and xbox try to get he same users

  • Anonymous

    Running around a mansion using a vacuum cleaner to suck up ghosts, or playing Bioshock. Plus PSN is VASTLY better then the E Shop and Sony have confirmed every game will be downloadable plus the dev kits are cheap at 1900 euros plus vat, the PSP dev kit was 15,000 Euros at launch. So they are marketing to indie devs as much as the big boys and most indie devs also agree Sony is the best company to work with, even better then Apple.
    The Vita is going to be a success, and I fear the 3DS won't be, I think the fact it got a lot of negative media coverage about the 3D effect giving headaches etc has damaged it and people will know it's a waste of money if you can't use the main selling gimmick of the device.

    • Haakon r j

      yes the parents wont buy it to their kid lol. but serus i think some of the reason was the bad lineupp. still i buyed a 3ds and i admitt using them on vita would bin much better

    • http://twitter.com/Ax23000 Matt Lindquist

      Yeah, but the only game on the 3DS is not going to be Luigi's Mansion 2 (which I'd point out received very favorable coverage from those who played it).  It will also have Super Mario 3D Land, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, Smash Bros, and certainly a new Zelda game further down the line.  And those are just the obvious big hitters from Nintendo.

      Assuming the price cut helps sales, which if Japanese sales are any indication it will and in a BIG way, third parties will also have a lot of big games on the system.

      As for Bioshock, I'd much rather play it on a big screen than on the Vita.  That said, I will be buying a Vita because I expect there will be interesting games on it.  I simply wanted to point out that you shouldn't discount the 3DS.  I've had a lot of fun with mine even up till now.

  • Anonymous

    People will be able take Little Big Planet Vita and out right replicate a lot of iPhone games. Just saying. 

  • New

    I'm an old gamer.  I like the 3DS for the FUN Nintendo 1st party games.  The Vista, I will love once it is hack with EMULATORS.  I have a PSP and I do not give a sh*t about the PSP games but I love the units because it allows me to play NES on the goooooo.. that to me is gold.  The Vista - I will like to see, a FULL speed SNES emulator dammmmmmmmit:). As for Apple, I would love to see an ipod with fully integrated controllers. Nothing says I LOVE you like a d-pad and A and B buttons:)

    • Haakon r j

      lol good luck with that when sony has the same security as steam. and sony has new trackers that tracking their software online. if you steal from them theu get you

      • http://twitter.com/Ax23000 Matt Lindquist

        Technically he's talking about NES emulators, which would be stealing from Nintendo not Sony.  He didn't say anything about pirating games.  In fact, quite the opposite, he said he had no interest in them at all.

      • New

        Matt,
        You are correct.. I will be using the Vita for EMULATORS, just like my PSP.  I have zero interest on the Vista games.  I have a PS3 and use it as a Blue-rey/DVD player. Just to be clear.. I will be pirating SNES, NES, MAME, GBA, GBC, NEO GEO, Genesis, PC Engine, AMIGA, ROMS and anything with 8bit and 16bit graphics.  This will sound strange to many but games have gotten wayyyyyy to complex for my liking.  I just do not have the time to learn how to play them.  Years back someone told me the same thing and that he loves Atari and Amiga games. My reaction was, that is a stupid thing to say.  But now that I'm older, kids and family, I do understand. In about 10 to 15 years many of you might be saying the same about PS 9 games. You my friends might became "RETROGAMERs". 

  • Lukwtwz

    Apple gaming has run amok. You never know whether a software update will permanently change an app, modify levels, replace a good soundtrack with a worse one, reduce framerate, or even alter scoring and mechanics in ways that render leaderboards pointless to the exent that the original product advertisements (e.g. trailers) turned out to have been misrepresentation.

    • Anonymous

      Its young and will mature, but the actual platform and delivery system is better than anything out there and I paid for Xbox live from launch to maybe a year or so ago and have tried some others.

      There are a few thorns, namely games trying to decide whether to go free (yes free...who'd have ever thought a full game and not demo would be free) with adds or In App purchases...etc.

      I'vehad an iPad since launch (replaced with iPad 2 at launch) and have bought or acquired hundreds of games that offer quality gaming for the fraction of the price of the "old world order".

      I've been burnt with In App Purchasesbut still figure to have spent MUCH less than picking up a $60 every other week.

      Add sites like AppShopper where you can learn about premium app sales (many that I've got free or over 50% off) and warts and all, the iOS Gamer still benefits.

  • rallier

    this will do well in the long run...think about it, call of duty mobile and uncharted...people will buy.

  • Logan85

    I think the 3DS just needs 3DS games. Stop with the remakes and the ports (I love Street Fighter 3D Edition). If the big boys don't want to make games for Nintendo, then they need to do it themselves and begin to embrace the indie developers. I personally love my 3DS. I haven't owned a Nintendo system since the GameCube at launch. I play it more than I play my iPhone and PS3.  
     
    I feel cutting the price of games down to $25 or $30 would really help Nintendo.
     
    I have lost interest in Sony and Microsoft because I feel they lack creativity with their games. The only real standouts are Uncharted and NBA 2K series. I feel that Vita is just going to be a mini PS3 and just don't find it fun.
     
    Imagine a Heavy Rain type of game for the 3DS. The 3DS doesn't need Call of Duty or Battlefield to be successful. Games like Shank, Trine, Prince of Persia (cell shaded) would shine on the 3DS. Nintendo should introduce a new character for the 3DS. Continue to keep it simple and you'll win every time.

    • Anonymous

      That's been the big paradigm shift IMO with iOS on the gaming scene and what should be keeping Nintendo, MS, and Sony awake at night.

      Cheaper games as a platform's norm...

      If anything the trend had been moving in the other direction up until now (aside from Nintendo 64 "Gold" cartridges at $70 a pop).

      I'd almost say that it shows that consumers might pay MORE for a compelling hardware solution if the Games (Apps...etc) are more reasonably priced.

  • Rgangmunroe

    @SMP- I don't see what there is to be wrong about, when my stance is "both could sell well next year, it is too early to speculate." I'm not saying Vita DOESN'T have potential or won't have great titles. I'm just saying that buzz surrounding both launches was similar and the appeal for the two companies strongest arguments (their 1st party IPs) is a competitive split. You can NOT claim as fact how this "war" will play out before we see how 3DS sells over the holidays and how the Vita's launch rolls out. Without those figures (which, obviously, do not exist yet) we can't make definitive "factual" statements. Let me offer this, though. The Nintendo DS sold 500,000 units during its first week, and capped off the year at about 1.2 million in the US. It had a price drop during its first year. It would go on to be the highest-selling portable console (obviously not including smartphones) and second highest-selling system period, behind the PS2. It would sell 6.65 worldwide by the end of the year.The 3DS is reported (by Nintendo) to have the largest 1st day sales of any of their systems, and hit 440,000 units its 1st week. Marginally under the DS, for a system everyone says is derivitive, gimmicky, and over-priced, with inferior tech (to hear you tell it), So, well played Nintendo. It sold 3.61 worldwide by the end of March. I'm not sure where they are now, but after the price drop they did see a slaes surge in Japan. And we still have a Vita-free Christmas with which they can establish themselves in the market. I think they're doing ok. That is speculative, but it is based in figures, facts. How the games will fair... look I already pointed out how about half of your Vita "40 game" lineup was "filler" by your definition, or simply announced with no definitive name or details. And while it is just as fair to point out the same on Nintendo, you keep trying to shut down the convo by acting like that is what people are excited for. When people get excited about the new Mario, Mario Kart, upcoming Smash Bros, RE: Revelations, Shinobi, Kid Icarus, Kingdom Hearts 3D, to name a few, they are talking about console-quality games with high production values and promise. For every LBP fan, i guarantee you'll find 2 more Mario fans. It is not speculation that the Mario Kart has the potential to outsell ModNation Racers. The big feather in Vita's launch cap is Uncharted. But the PS3 debuted these franchises and doesn't hold the largest market share this gen, so it is fair speculation that it doesn't have as large of a built-in audience as Zelda or Mario.

    • SMP

      You keep bringing up sales, and cherry picking games to point out, Im not talking about sales, and Im not saying there arent games, I love mario as much, if not more than anyting else, but regardless, the 3DS's catalog of games out and upcoming is wildly inconsistent compared to the Vita which has much better rounded catalog of established games along with creative ones, you can cherry pick all you want, its still outnumbered and outmatched. And What do you mean by my definition of filler? The 3DS has a lot of remakes/rereleases of old games substituting for major releases, most of the vitas games are new, maybe not original, but definitely new, just like Mario Kart or Luigis Mansion. I dont know why you insist on dismissing the Vitas catalog as a matter of personal preference, I think Mario Kart and Super Mario 3D will probably be great, and there are others, but prefence or no, the 3DS's offerings are still inferior. As for whether or not either of theae systems will do well enough, thats another discussion entirely.

      • Rgfangmunroe

        I think you misunderstand me, which is why I said it may just be a matter of opinion. I have also said, repeatedly, if you feel I am "cherry-picking" and doing certain titles a disservice... NAME THE ONES YOU THINK PROVE ME WRONG. Until you do, I really see nothing else to talk about. You know why? You are doing the same thing. I'm simply playing devil's advocate. How is me naming SPECIFIC titles, to the tune of over a dozen, simply to showcase that the Vita is also "guilty" of what you are complaining about "cherry-picking," but you making blanket statements with no specifics about the 3DS NOT cherry-picking? That's the pot calling the kettle black.

        You say "many 3DS titles are etc etc." I say "one half of announced Vita titles are either as well, or are simply announced with no further data to compare against." How are we different, except that I put my money where my mouth was and called out the titles in question, in case you felt there was a rebuttal to be made regarding my choices. I have gone out of my way to compare direct titles, point out flaws and strengths in both systems (both hardware and software), and discuss sales figures- old ones to show previous trends and current ones to compare with said trends- thus showing how the market responds to the tech on display (since we are discussing potential and what people will buy into).

      • Rgfangmunroe

        And just to add, I am NOT dismissing the Vita's catalog. I was just pointing out the a number of them fit the category you brought up as a negative. I also disagree with your "my opinion = fact" stance. It is a very one-sided way to debate. For example, I think Mario Kart will be a better, more fun game than ModNation Racers. ModNation's track-making features are cool, but I didn't find its predecessor as polished and fun an experience as MK.

        That is my OPINION. I will NOT attempt to force you to agree with me if you think MNR is a fresher experience. Nor, however, will I tolerate you telling me that your MNR preference is a fact of superiority between the two. That is an example for the sake of argument- I know you haven't specifically said anything about MNR. But you haven't specifically mentioned much of anything, so I had to extrapolate a little :p

      • SMP

        Too many posts, But we're clearly speaking on two diffirent wavelengths. No I dont think youre hating on the vita, youve established that, I dont think theres anything wrong with pointing to the games that you point, Ive just been continually asserting the fact that as a whole, the Vita catalogs is still superior, that doesnt mean I think theyre individually better than the Mario, that has nothing to do with my argument, and yet you continue to point to these games as if they compare when theyre clearly outnumbered. I have no idea what youre talking about when you say the Vitas doing the same things as the 3DS, the Vita catalog is does not consist of remakes, many of its games are games that are not possible on the PSP, the 3DS, or the DS, its indistinguishable as a handheld, the 3DS is not.

      • Rgfangmunroe

        Maybe you missed it, man, but I pointed out 13 games that were ports of existing titles. A handful are cross-platform (obviously delayed, as the games will debut this yr, and then come out later for Vita), so I granted that is arguable. But I still think those handful count as "filler" since they are essentially re-releases of games already on the market. I apologize if I sounded like I was saying that about launch, but I thought I drew a distinction. I've said Vita's launch should be better.

        1. BlazBlue II is an arcade and console (360 and PS3) game that is currently available for the 3DS and PSP- it will come out next year for the Vita as well with perhaps mild upgrades.

        2. Oddworld: Munch's Oddysee is an Xbox port.

        3.Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath is likewise an Xbox port.

        4.Rayman Origins like BlazBlue, this one is iffy. But it is a title for consoles and 3DS that next yr hits the Vita as well.

        5.Mortal Kombat, from what little I can tell, looks like a port.

        6.SF x Tekken, appears to be a direct port, similar to SF4 3D.

        7. Dungeon Hunters is an iOS game ported to PSN and and now slated for a port to Vita.

        8. Lego Harry
        Potter shouldn't need an explanation.

        9. Michael Jackson: The Experience is, again, a port.

        10. Hustle Kings, if I'm not mistaken, is a PSN title.

        11. Great Little War
        Game is another iOS title.

        12. Disgaea 3 is a port. Has some consistency, as 1 and 2 were on PSP.

        13. Dungeon Defenders is on every download service known to man, and is on Vita's 40 or so list of upcoming titles as well.

        I'm sure you can argue that these ports are more recent, but I could argue that Nintendo's ports (chiefly Zelda and Star Fox) are being touched up. The gameplay and level designs in those two titles still hold up, and the visuals are brought to roughly Wii levels.

        I also accuse you of also "cherry picking" because of statements like your last one. I won't argue that the Vita has a more powerful graphics processor than the 3DS. Like the PSP did over the DS. And the PS3 does over the 360 and Wii. It's one of Sony's chief selling points. But that doesn't keep other companies from being competitive with them (or even winning out over them). That said, as far as 3DS titles being indistinguishable from DS titles? Sure, some of these early titles have that look. But I defy you to tell me Ocarina, either Resident Evil (compare Revelations to RE: DS, then laugh), Mario, Kid Icarus, Luigi's Mansion, Snake Eater look like anything a DS would even pretend it could handle. If, hypothetically, Capcom dusted off Viewtiful Joe for 3DS, we'd get a title that looked and handled like the Clover classics, as opposed to the DS effort which kind of looked like it and handled like crap. the 3DS IS clearly stronger than the DS. Many early developers failed to capitolize on that, aside from Capcom, Tecmo, and Arc System Works. Even my favorite non-Zelda 3DS title right now, Ghost Recon, could have likely been done on DS. But a good chunk of titles in deep development or right around the corner are starting to tap into what it can do. And there are more to come. I think you're selling it short. The DS could barely handle early N64 and PSX ports. The 3DS clearly can handle PS2 at least. And more-so than that PSX-PS2 grey area of the PSP. Snake Eater proves that, as Portable Ops and Peace Walker had to skimp on cinematics and mission structures to fit the constraints of the system. 3DS is dropping the first full console MGS experience in our pockets (albeit as a port- not a problem for me, since that title is fantastic). Snake Eater isn't just a PS2 game. It is one of the last and best-looking titles of its era.

      • SMP

        I give up, I dont know what else to say, we keep argruing in circles like a broken record player, but nothing seems to get through to you. Id assume that youre irrational, but you tell me that youre not, so Im confused more than anything else. I just dont understand why youre so thick skulled about this, but I dont care anymore, Im done commenting, sorry for wasting your time.

      • Rgfangmunroe

        You've lost me... I've directly addressed your statements and you still refuse to speak in any form of specific. You have said repeatedly that the 3DS catalog consists of remakes and DS-quality games. I listed 13 titles, at least 11 of which are clearly past-gen or download-service-quality ports (and another 6 out of the 40- your number, that don't have ANY data and therefore can't really be discussed as of yet). I've also listed a number of non-DS-quality games and non-remakes/ports in the upcoming 3DS library. Your only replies are to tell me that I am cherry-picking, thick skulled, and to otherwise add no counter-argument to the table. "Nothing seems to get through" to me? You haven't added anything besides blanket "I'm right because I am, my opinion is clearly fact, but I'm not going to mention ANYTHING specific to back this up" statements. You mention Vita features, but won't say which you're interested in. You rag on 3DS games, but won't point any out (or acknowledge ones that break the mold you describe). You mention Vita titles, but won't say which ones. You dropped the number 40 as if they are ALL going to be awesome original IPs with the features of a PS3 title, and when I questioned half of that number you completely and repeatedly ignored the point.

      • Rgfangmunroe

        - I meant listed 13 Vita titles, sorry.

      • SMP

        Im right because there are two game handhelds with two separate lists of features and games, look them up, one is clearly, undeniably better. If you disagree look harder, if you still disagree look harder, talk is cheap, I dont need to speak for it, and I what I personally prefer is irrelevant because the systems speak for themselves very clearly. That doesnt mean that you cant prefer or like the 3DS, but regardless there is no argument to be made, despite the imaginary one you insist on making. No offense (though Ive probably leaped over that line, and I apologize), but if you really cant get these simple facts through, then whatever, theres nothing I can say.

      • Rgfangmunroe

        Oh, no offense taken. And i apologize myself if I crossed the line. I was very much enjoying the discussion at first, though we obviously got a little passionate about it.

         One is clearly undeniably better IF you own a PS3- and that depends on how the software is implemented (i.e., only a handful of titles have announced full support of these features). I said that your statement was subjective. Look up the term. At the end of the day, you have two systems with touch pads, gyro and accelerometer controls, cameras/video capabilities, online stores, and various bells and whistles (Nintendo Video, Netflix, StreetPass, SpotPass for one, and the various app-like functions for the other). So, to some people, the extra graphical power of Vita and the optional subscription 3G services and better online integration will be key. For others, they will prefer the 3D and StreetPass as innovations.

        If you recall, though, we weren't talking about the consoles initially. I mentioned games, and you disagreed with my list (which confused me a bit). Aside from the 1st party biggies (I think we agreed more or less to put those to the side as guaranteed sells with their own built in audiences) I basically had just compared Great Little War Game to Ghost Recon, Samurai Warriors to Dynasty Warriors, Resident Evil Revelations to Silent Hill, and said that both systems would be getting Madden, Ridge Racer, and BlazBlue II (the last one with unannounced but presumed extra features, though eventual cross-system releases are unknown at this time). I don't imagine those last three titles to look much different on either system, as none of them are big "push-the-envelope" types.

      • SMP

        Well, I mentioned the PS3/360 as a partial reference point for what to expect out of the Vita, as well as mentioning that their remakes are priced better. For the handhelds themselves, I do agree, the features are there for the 3DS, but to what extent that potential will be utilized is left seriously in question. There are certainly a handful of games out and upcoming that prove that potential, but those are a minority, the shovelware games speak poorly for the system, as do the overpriced remakes or the DS quality games/ports . You bring up for the Vita and the 3DS's selling points, the difference between the two is that Vita actually has the potenial to come through on its own, Wheras the 3DS is horribly mixed bag of the good, meh, and ugly. The 3DS just lacks consistensy, as well as an actual online service, which is also equally detrimental.

      • SMP

        What the hell, Im continuing this argument, youve mentioned the Vitas ports, however most dont count as filler in the same way as the 3DS's remakes because most  are based on relatively new games, I dont know about the downloadable ports, but should the others be similar contentwise to their fully featured PS3 counterparts, then the $40 prices will be justified. Furthermore, there are plenty of new/unique Vita games that round out the systems catalog (unlike the 3DS). Again, my problem isnt that there are remakes, my problem is that the 3DS's "major" releases consists largely of said remakes with the $40 price tag slapped on. There are games of similar quality released all the time on XBLA/PSN for $10-15, and at least the downloadable eshop games are decently priced, so this nostalgia driven argument that people make stating I love these games, so they can charge whatever they want is stupid. Why even release new games then when these companies can just rerelease any game from their old catalog instead? A port or standalone to games  like Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter X Tekken, or even SSFIV 3D or Dead or Alive (ugh) are much more acceptable at a $40 price tag than a 8-13 year old game.

      • Rgfangmunroe

        But...ok, did I miss something? Cuz, by my count, that's two games! And they... well I can't speak for Star Fox, because I haven't played it yet. But Ocarina is kind of like the "MGS: Twin Snakes" edition, minus all the reasons ppl were divided on that release. The gameplay holds up, it has new features, it is the first proper release of Master Quest (that was previously a bonus disc on Gamecube only, unless it hit VC and I missed it), and the visuals are improved. But, that is personal preference, and I'll grant you the point. The CURRENT 3DS library sucks. I myself own two 3DS titles, with maybe 2 more I kind of want to buy. I do still think it is fair to compare to DS' launch with Mario 64 DS, which received praise. But the port comment is still fair.

        But what other 8-13 y/o remakes are there? Honestly, your comment makes it seem like if you pull up the complete list of current and announced games you'll get dozens of these. I find two! Ok, Tales of the Abyss is like 5 years old. So, we can say three. There are, of course, titles that fit the recent remake and/or cross-platform situation I brought up with Vita (Harvest Moon, BlazBlue, any sports or racing title, etc). But I mentioned them on Vita not to excuse 3DS but to point out similarity between the two. But I do NOT see these waves of decade old ports. Zelda and Star Fox, which should have been launch titles but Nintendo supposedly want to coddle to third party devs. Snake Eater, while not THAT old, does fall into the port category. But most of the good games announced besides that for the holiday season and next year don't fit that bill. I won't drop another games list, but you know what I mean. The "true" quality hits over the holidays when Mario & crew take to the field. The holiday list is hardly a list of ports.

      • SMP

        Splinter Cell, Rayman 3D, MGS 3, and Kingdom Hearts in addition to Starfox and Zelda, and Im pretty sure Im missing one other game. I didnt say there was a flood of remakes, Im saying all of these remakes have been refered and promoted as major releases (except for Rayman), which is at least half of the games in that catagory. Theyre good games (except for Rayman), but superficial enhancements dont justify slapping a $40 price on games that are essentially the same as the ones Ive played years ago, and theyre not good substitutes for the word "major release", if they were on XBLA, theyd be $10-15. And yes, the 3DS catalog is bad, its not consistent, Ive said this so many times, and that will remain the case even after the holidays, regardless of the minority of stand out games on the system. Also, the DS is a bad system to compare to, its a similar launch, which is a very bad thing. This is not 2004, this is 2011, what was acceptable for the DS is completely unnacceptable today.

      • Rgfangmunroe

        I forgot about Splinter Cell, but you are mistaken about the other two.

        Rayman Origins is a prequel, not a port. I'd list it in the cross-platform category, cuz it is going everywhere. I put it on the Vita list because it will (naturally) come out later for that than on other systems.

        Kingdom Hearts: Dream Drop Distance is a brand new title meant to bridge Kingdom Hearts II to the yet-to-begin-development Kingdom Hearts III.

        So that brings us up to 3.

        Then, I suppose, we can mention MGS3 and Tales of the Abyss. But you did give a pass on the Vita's ports, which track back to the Xbox (same gen as PS2). MGS 3 3D is, I believe, a port of Subsistence (5 yrs old) and I mentioned Tales already. We could equate them to the Oddworld ports, if we must. Munch came out in 2001, and Stranger came out I think in '05. Disgaea is new-ish, but 3 yrs old. The other stuff is a couple of yrs old or relatively current. So Vita fairs a bit better in this category, but  does have its offenders. As for major releases, well I think that's largely due to MGS, Tom Clancy, 1st Party Nintendo being stronger brands than the Oddworld franchise.

      • Rgfangmunroe

        And keep in mind, the remake/port thing has to be considered with the portable angle. I didn't buy OoT because "omg new game." I bought it cuz "omg I can play this during downtime at work." I can't cart a PS2 or Wii around with me on commute. Now, a library can't (or shouldn't) consist mainly of such things. But they most certainly have a certain appeal. And this first yr is the best time for them to test the tech and kind of put out proof-of-concept releases, so that they can cut loose after. We would be far less forgiving if they were padding things like this next year.

      • SMP

        Rayman 3D, not Origins, 3D is a rerelease of Rayman 2 which came out in 1999, I goofed on Kingdom Hearts though that series has a habit of recycling content/themes from the first game, since that series pretty much blew Disneys load on the first game. But about the remakes thing, Ive repeated myself so many times its bugging me, Ive repeatedly said that remakes are okay, whatever the Vita has is few and is more than made up by the rest of its catalog of announced games. Thats not okay, when theyre put out as full priced games and used as filler, and that is the reason they exist. Having rehashed PS2 quality remakes is not a selling point at all, even for the 3DS, thats a bullcrap excuse, having Super Mario 64 was cool because it was among the first 3D handheld games, that was years ago. Games offer so much more in terms of providing a service to their consumers to allow nonsense reasoning like that. We're almost past the point where a gaming handheld can wow people on the "for a handheld" factor, the Vita will be certainly the last handheld to do so, which like I initially said, the 3DS doesnt compares to, definitely not with what you suggest.

      • Rgfangmunroe

        Ahhhhh we're getting stretched again! But to be clear, I'm not suggesting that the "for a handheld" margin ISN'T dwindling, as they get more powerful across the board, including tablets and phones. It comes down to the quality of (and interest in) the software- and that is where things get subjective. For example, I'll buy Snake Eater twice soon. And this doesn't bother me much. I made a profit on Snake Eater. I sold the original release a week after purchase online for full retail value (knowing that they would do some kind of re-release), and sold Subsistence online as a collector's item for $60 more than I bought it for. I want Snake Eater 3D because, well, I have a full time job, college, and a kid. I don't spend much time console gaming right now. Having one of my fav games portable is a big draw, and the potential for having the depth of 3D in a game as detailed and stealth-oriented as that is a big interest. I'll also get the MGS HD compilation, but that's mainly for big screen Peace Walker and MGS2 (my PS2 disc and PS2 had a...falling out).

        I know ppl online who, for various reasons, have similar thinking. Some of my friends are getting one release or the other, those with 3DS' want both, a handful don't like MGS and say they could care less.

        So- subjective. Is it an excuse NOT to have a proper Metal Gear down the road? Of course not. But what system even has a MGS title near its launch? So I agree with you completely that this is filler. But I (subjectively) think it is quality filler, and that it is not necessarily an indicator of what the overall life of either system will show.

        I essentially see the Vita somewhat as an Xbox and the 3DS as a PS2 (for comparison's sake). Xbox had better graphics, in my opinion less shovelware, compelling exclusives, and better online. But I don't regret owning a PS2 (maybe not the best analogy, but still).

      • Rgfangmunroe

        Sry to triple-post, but one last thought. If you don't believe me on not hating on the Vita's games- bit of truth about me. I could give a damn about Uncharted. I never played 2, but 1 didn't impress me one single bit.

        Yet, I have repeatedly dropped Uncharted's name in this discussion, with respect, as the Vita's killer app, have I not? How am I not being fair? My personal preference aside, I can recognize what will be a competent and sought after title, a feather in its systems cap.

  • SMP

    The PS2 did not rehash overcharged games, at least thats not the reason I played it, your analogy makes no sense (not that analogies do anyway). We're not in 2004, playing Zelda or MGS3 on a handheld is not a technical marvel, nor is worth $40. So, thats not a good reason to buy a 3DS at all, that may be your reason, but when a bunch of overpriced rehashes are among the best games out and coming for a system thats supposed to be an improved version of one of the most creative gaming systems ever released, thats a problem, espescially when its a device that came out seven years ago, and for that reason, I dont buy that "it can only get better" reasoning that 3DS owners have, thats wishful thinking. What we do have and will have is a mess of a system with only a handful of games that truly stand out. That is the difference between the 3DS, and the promise of the Vita, which actually seems to have consistent quality, please tell me this is getting through to you, because we could fill an entire book with these comments.

    • Rgfangmunroe

      There's nothing to "get through," because your argument supposes a 1 over the other view. My view is we will see when the new releases hit, how the coming 4th quarter does and how the first quarter next year plays out. I'm not going to go back into software lists because it takes us nowhere. You imply the 4 or 5 games we just mentioned is the entire high-profile lineup. I list a number of titles that don't fit that category. You accuse me of cherry-picking. Rinse and repeat. But I still maintain that while I am not insulting Vita or its chances, and that it is fair to criticize Nintendo's launch and early releases, that when comparing to how the market will look when the Vita launches we can't deny that 3DS will be cheaper and  all of its games will NOT be ports/remakes. Sure you can say Zelda/Star Fox/MGS/Rayman/Splinter Cell. But (ok, getting a lil' listy) when people are interested in Mario, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Ninja Gaiden, the two Prof Layton games, Animal Crossing, Luigi's Mansion, Resident Evil Revelations, Paper Mario, Shinobi, Kid Icarus, Ace Combat, Contra, Kingdom Hearts 3D, Rayman Origins, Lego City Stories, or Heroes of Ruin they are NOT talking about the types of filler you mentioned. Adding it all together, the rehashes are roughly a quarter of the current (including announced) catalog. And that is why I brought up a similar ratio of 1/4th or more for the announced Vita catalog. To what level this disinterests you is a matter of OPINION.

      It is an acceptable stance to say Oddworld isn't as high profile or old as the N64 games, but a counter argument is that in some other opinion the Oddworld series is mediocre and the two N64 games were genre-defining and still hold up. If you don't like the concept of old ports, then it shouldn't matter because both systems are guilty to a degree. The ones on Nintendo get more press because the ones they are porting are better games to begin with!

      Fact is, there are PLENTY of titles that are not rehashes. Read: the 18 games I mentioned above, and any I may have missed.

      • SMP

        Its a list, an extremely questionable and obviously inferior list, buts even that doesnt seem to get past you, which is just obvious in your last comment as it is in most of your other comments. But whatever, I guess we'll leave it at that.

      • Rgfangmunroe

        For the last time, if you wish to "discuss" or "debate," please state your opinion on WHY certain things are inferior or superior. I listed some games that are not ports, in direct reply to you saying the majority of the line up are ports. If you want to say it is inferior, make some comparisons. Simply saying "it is" is, as I've said, SUBJECTIVE. Graphical power is certainly in Vita's favor, but beyond the both systems have their own gimmicks and also have a good share of overlap. Vita has connectivity with PS3, 3DS is speculated to have some similar features with Wii U. Sony has better online, Nintendo is $80 + cheaper and will be unchallenged, smartphones aside, for the holidays. WHICH FEATURES DO YOU THINK ARE SUPERIOR? I've posted lists, launch figures, speculation, facts, made my opinion clear. You have still yet to back up anything beyond stating "it clearly is." Please clarify your position for, as the saying goes, the sake of argument. If your approach to a debate is to say "this is inferior, look it up," then I hate to tell ya, but you're doing it wrong.

      • SMP

        And you refuse to acknowledge what is obvious. You refuse or seem unable to look at what these two systems offer and come to the logical conclusion Ive repeatedly stated. Theres no point in arguing with you if youre incapable of doing that.

      • SMP

        And you refuse to acknowledge what is obvious. You refuse or seem unable to look at what these two systems offer and come to the logical conclusion Ive repeatedly stated. Theres no point in arguing with you if youre incapable of doing that.

      • SMP

        And you refuse to acknowledge what is obvious. You refuse or seem unable to look at what these two systems offer and come to the logical conclusion Ive repeatedly stated. Theres no point in arguing with you if youre incapable of doing that.

      • Rgfangmunroe

        I've looked at what they both offer. I listed features. I've listed positives and negatives for both. I've, in the end, played devil's advocate to your un-specified insistences. I have, at the core, maintained that both do some things similar, and other things that the competitor does now. I have further held that only time will tell which will succeed (if either or neither). That, to me, is a perfectly logical conclusion. Especially considering one contender isn't even on the damn market yet.

        YOU are the one making definitive statements, flat-out ignoring anything mentioned to the contrary of any particular statement, and refusing (up to and including your last statement) to actually support your opinion in any way. Your argument seems to be "I'm right, look it up." You are either very immature (which you really don't strike me as) or a very elaborate troll (again, which isn't the impression I've gotten). Hence my confusion and repeated attempts to invite you to share your opinion beyond "I'm right, you're wrong, haha." You said that the Vita is better. I say that they both offer different feature sets, and which will appeal to the individual consumer will be a matter of opinion (duh). You said that the Vita has a solid 40-game line up and the 3DS is mostly ports. I mentioned a number of non-port 3DS games and a number of ported Vita titles, ending in a similar ratio for both. Again, fact, I listed the games but you can pull them up online if you wish. You seemed upset that I didn't list every Vita title and as such I was "cherry-picking." But that assumes an anti-Vita bias. I didn't list every promising Vita game (though I did name a good number of them here and there) because they weren't under attack. We agreed that Vita had promising games, so why bother going through them all? It is the 3DS upcoming line-up that you are cherry-picking from, acting as though of the numerous games on the horizon MGS3 and Star Fox are the only thing they have coming out.

        You were perhaps right when you said we are on different wavelengths, because you clearly see this in terms of right and wrong. I do not, chiefly because I do not "support" one system over the other. I have a 3DS, as I had a DS and every iteration before it. I will get a Vita as I had multiple PSPs. I feel both have unique strengths that appeal to different tastes. My entire stance is they both have unique features (TRUE, look it up) and that the next few months through to the Vita's launch will be telling as far as who's features win over audiences (not only true, but common fricken sense). What the hell is their to be "wrong" about? I can only assume that you have inferred a battle of two sides, yet I didn't actually take one or the other. I've merely stated that your insistence of one or the other is a matter of opinion that will be born out when these things actually proceed through their development cycle and their console actually hits market. Again, that really should be common sense.