Universal Sine Mora (by Digital Reality)

I deleted it. Inertia kills the bullet hell controls needed, new controls have me picking my thumns off and on and off and on a full sized ipad and as a Cave player I see a plethora of ways to control the game in better ways.

Porting means making games suitable for specific devices with specific inputs, not copying the game 1:1, throwing in a virtual stick and releasing it. I'm sorry.
No more Sine Mora. At first I was wowed but as earlier posters said: it's not cave, nor R-Type nor a Euro shoot em up. It excells at neither and apart from a strong narrative and gorgeous but terribly watered down graphics, the game's controls irritate me.

Back to DonDonP. Where the planes act when I do, something essential with so many bullets on screen.

 

This. EXACTLY.

 

I didn't say that. Or that was not my intent.

It is obvious that there are many players who weren't happy with a lot of different issues in this game such as use of only 1/2 screen on the ipad, no touch controls, facebook, the list goes on.

I believe, not of course here in this thread cause there is a very pro game contiguent, but the majority of comments I have read on the internet sites, not only here, the vast majority wanted relative touch, and some others like me want instantaneous touch.

And if you reread my post, I said others. Those would of course include people like you or metalcasket or others.

Anyway, in short, my whole point was, all of the great shmups on ios like cave games like bug princess 2 black label, dariusburst, phoenix hd all have instantaneous relative touch.

To not put it in is to shoot yourself in the back. Sure, the very vocal pro side here saying virtual joystick is the best is valid to, but honestly, to not include the relative touch in my humble opinion as an idiot is this, all ios shmups need a touch version. But it is only my opinion, and if you notice this time, I did not say others.

But yes, I do feel a good beta testing group would have mentioned this within the first 15 minutes along with other things like use of 1/2 the screen, facebook, framerate issues on older ios devices, etc.

But really, I am not here to argue with the virtual stick loverz. I too love that option, but I do not think it fair for me to be criticized to ask for instantaneous touch. That is all.

On and awp69, my good friend, please remember I just joined this thread, I got no idea what the hundred or so pages before this read. Thanks!

 

Just for some clarification outside of my Game Impressions...

It was not rewarding writing what I did about Sine Mora. I was as excited as anyone when I first saw it. I also don't want to start a flame war. I'm merely sharing my honest experience with nothing to gain by it, except the benefit of a healthy discussion.

Thanks for the kind label of 'expert' Connector, but I'm just a shmup fan. No more, no less.

 

I was excited too.
But when a port fails. It fails.
And it needs to be said. It's not personal.


I'm happy for those who are enjoying it.
But I see a flawed port.

Let me give you an example of ports, controls and platforms: Remember the Wii when it launched? Most devs did a quick 1:1 post disregarding different controllers and hardware. What happened is a lot of good games went really bad on the new platform, because controls and other things became awkward because they did not fit the system. Period.
Developers who invested in ports for the new platform created the best ports because they saw that different platforms with different audiences, hardware and controls need different approaches when porting a game. You can't port 1:1. They investigated the hardware and controls needed for that platform and took the results into account when porting the game and beta testing it extensively. That meant changing it, but for the better for that platform. It's THAT SIMPLE.

And that is one giant mistake this port made. They just slapped the game onto a different OS and made the controls virtual. Done! I'm sorry but I disagree. It's a lousy job. (Even the graphics could have been better: I have seen Vita games and gfx benchmarks: the iPad is near on-par with Vita and iPad 4 even outperforms it).

It's a different platform, iOS.
It needs different things. Investigate that thoroughly and make the necessary adjustments to translate the game's core but keep the playability and controls suitable for the platform you are porting to. That is how you port.
Not like this.

Sine Mora is a port so flawed I deleted it off my iPad and systems. I am sorry.

 

Sorry, Connector, just having a bad day at home and think that frustration bled over to my post.

Anyway, guess we can all agree to disagree. Some feel the port was a complete failure while others, like myself, feel it may be a candidate for GoTY. I always agree that there should be alternative control options so I'm glad those that like RT are able to use it.

The only review I had a big beef with was IGN. To give the game a 4.9/10 was ridiculous IMO (but again that is just my opinion). 148apps and Appspy both raised the issue of having other control options but yet both gave the game a 4/5.

Sorry that some hate the game so much even after the update. But I respect everyone's right to their own opinion. For me, I'll just enjoy it nonetheless.

 

Haha, well, yeah, in retrospect, experts was a lously word, I just meant any really active shmup lover, for example; me, you, and void usually post the most in the shmup threads, so that's what I meant. That was it.

I edited the original statement to read the same as sumosplash, shmup fans.

http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2916187&postcount=582

 

In some countries relative touch is still illegal. Works well here though. In all honesty though this is up there with Defender and Uridium.

 

Ports are risky. I am always hesitant to take the plunge with something made at a different point in time on different platforms. Sine Mora is one such example of a game that comes from powerful console systems. Trying to capture, replicate or duplicate that experience is tricky when you have to trim away so much of what matters.

The port issue aside, I personally couldn't escape certain core aspects of the gameplay: firepower deduction for getting hit and then having to retrieve just to lose them again, extremely short levels with the amount of time spent on story outweighing the actual action itself, etc. Losing the power-ups is important, because the sense of progression is fleeting. I looked at every video of Sine Mora online before buying. With each video, it was very rare to see any of the ships fully powered up, because you are in a constant state of flux by getting hit and backtracking to recover. This is made far worse with shoddy controls, since you get hit more. For me, this is a double negative, similar to the reduced graphics on a small screen is a double negative.

But again, I do feel the issues I have with the gameplay would be more balanced on the console versions and it is there that I think Sine Mora is the game that I think it truly is. In terms of the port, I'll play it as much as I can tolerate it, delete it and move on.

 

I can't get into relative touch myself, prefer the old controls

 

Yep. Interesting that some can call this an awful port when even though some reviewers mentioned the controls -- it still got decent reviews (TA 4.5/5, 148apps 4/5, Appspy 4/5, Slide to Play 3/4). And those were before the update. IGN completely trashed it, but again, for their opinion of the controls (and they really should re-review it since the main negative was the controls.)

Anyway, I know there are those that were waiting for RT and glad they got them, but for those still dismissing this as a horrible port, even "professional" reviewers still thought it was good.

Now, I'll go hide under my shell...

 

I can't get into relative touch myself, prefer the old controls

 

For some of us we never even heard of Sine Mora before it showed up on the TA app. So for us it's just a game. We don't come to it with any baggage.

With RT I can actually beat the first level. I may never finish the game but I will enjoy the experience.

Just for grins I'll play it on my "55 tv set, blows my mind that this is coming out of a phone.

 

BTW, don't want to harp on it but a lot of people in this thread act like it's not possible to have a successful shmup on iOS without RT. But there's at least two that I can think of that are amongst the best and either don't have RT or it wasn't the preferred method - Syder Arcade HD and Space Tripper. Both amazing games and yet the devs weren't attacked for "not doing their research" in doing an iOS shmup.

And SV even made the same point I felt about this game for Syder Arcade:

THIS game also doesn't always auto scroll and that's why I guess RT doesn't work for me.

Just wanted to point out that the lack of RT does not mean an iOS shmup will suck - at least for some of us.

 

Awp, space tripper does have relative instantaneous touch controls... (Ok, a quasi fast sometimes delayed funky relative touch)

Due to complaints on release of tilt only.

Blazing star had complaints at release too, dotemu put in instantaneous touch, now it is great!

Syder arcade, yeah it does have only vstick controls. I worked with the developer alot with this game. He changed the game alot per my requests, and yes my main request too was to put in instantaneous touch.

But he couldn't cause he said he couldn't reprogram that much.

But that game isn't a bullet hell, sine mora is.

In a bullet hell, instantaneous touch is always best. (Not for appletini, metalcasket, and some others here) (but for me and the seemingly majority.... But maybe that is just my imagination)

Syder never sold well, there is one other really small game that had only vstick controls think it was cave shooter, but anyway, there are almost none. (Why are there almost none?)

The top shmups, mostly cave, dariusburst, space tripper (quasi fast and unpredictable relative touch) etc all have instantaneous touch or very fast relative touch.

To not design a bullet hell game for ios without it is shooting yourself in the foot, in my humble opinion. (Again, stressed, this WHOLE post is just my opinion)

But anyway, the new relative controls are an improvement, now I feel confident in recommending the game, though to be great, would be happy for fullscreen and instantaneous touch controls. (Read this... I actually recommend this game for purchase now after the update........ Not haterz alert!)

 

Ok, we have had the update. Superb!

To those whining about it not being a good game because it's a "watered down port", play this on an iPad 4 with the new graphics settings, it looks stunning. If you're not on a model that supports the extra graphical touches, don't hate the game ... hate your aging iDevice.

The relative touch is a welcome attition but I find your hand covers too much of the screen but its still nice to have three control schemes to choose front

Great update though, especially if you own a recent device.

 

Everyone is entitled its own opinion of course, but I find hironic someone moaned about the game describing precisily why I love Sine Mora so much.

For starters, I do not think it's a japanese bullet hell game....and I happen to HATE bullet hell shooters, in before the Cave lovers army appear.
Sine Mora, to me anyway, it's a happy medium between a bullet hell and a traditional western shooter.
The whole gameplay mechanic is centered about the time concept (supported by the excellent even if a bit criptic at first storyline)...if you hit enemies your timer will go up, if you are hit by enemies it goes down.
The whole game is finding the right balance between hitting enemies and collecting power ups (in the best western shooters tradition) and avoid bullets (nothing too absurd imho like in other danmaku)..sometimes avoiding bullets it's just impossibile (besides the controls).
It works very well for me.

Said that, the game ship speed is FIXED, BY DESIGN.
Having a 1:1 RT faster mapping won't work...it would just break the game ( which is already one order of magnitude easier now).
I may be wrong and I can't check right now, but even in Vita and 360 speed is the same and if you aren't fast to react when you lose your power ups, they are gone (please correct if I'm wrong).
Memorizing the hard spots, anticipating the patterns out of memory and fast chosing if chasing that red power up instead of killing that last turret is all part of the game, much more than pure reflexes...and I personally love it.

Sure...at first I too cursed the fixed joystick for being 'too slow'...then I continued playing (the gorgeous graphics helped...I do not care if it's better on other platforms...it's one of the best looking game on iOS hands down nonetheless) and something clicked...I just realized the game was supposed to be so...speed is fixed, swiping faster won't help.
Since accepting that, I enjoyed every second of the more 10 hours I put in the game, according to the ingame counter.
For me it's the best shooter on the platfrom, hands down.
I replayed Darious Burst to completion again...and honestly it doesn't hold a candle against Sine Mora imho...controls or not.

I'm not a pro by any means, but with the normal controls I had no problems completing the game in normal and almost did in challenging.
It's a game that reward continue playing.
I'm now playing the (awesome) alternate story mode...I choose to do so in normal mode.
Well...after having mastered the game in challenging (which one week ago seemed just IMPOSSIBILE...I lasted less than one minute at first)....normal mode seems a walk in the park.
I'm at chapter 3 and I have yet to use a continue....my multiplier constantly on 7X.

I think trying to convince the devs to change the pace/speed/responsivness of the game is unfair.
You may like it or not, but it's simply how the game was conceived.
I'm not trying nor willing to convince anyone but I suggest people who dislike the game right now, as you already bought it...to try to play the game as it is instead of constantly comparing to other game/setting (like Cave's offerings, where some controls work better)...you may happen to like it nonetheless.
Come to terms that this game is NOT supposed to let you warp your ship to the other side of the screen with a fast swipe.

Also, I challenge ANYONE to complete Domus in challenging, with the RT controls.

I'm VERY glad they ported the game on iOS, imho it's an awesome work that right now lacks only GameCenter.
I'll buy their next offering on day one for sure (maybe they will do a different gam...a shooter with 1:1 RT controls and variable speed, who knows?).

Just my 2 cents.