Ever since I played my first release from Draknek & Friends years ago, I knew I wanted to sit down with Alan Hazelden and chat about the team, puzzle games, and much more. This has been in the works for a while, and with Draknek & Friends’ upcoming LOK Digital and the recent Cerebral Puzzle Showcase on Steam, I spoke to Alan about all things “thinky" and also other topics including how A Monster’s Expedition got a second life on Switch, working with Apple Arcade, and much more.

TouchArcade (TA): Tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do at Draknek & Friends.

Alan Hazelden (AH): I’ve been making games since 2006 – originally as a student hobbyist, then taking part in online game jams like Ludum Dare, and since the release of Sokobond in July 2013 as a full-time job (though for a long time even after Sokobond I was treating it as a full time hobby – living off savings that I expected to eventually run out, at which point I’d have to get a “real job”).

The title I use for myself in some places is “Head Draknek”, which doesn’t mean much but sets the tone a little and basically means I wear a lot of hats. What I do varies a lot depending on the projects: on our internally-developed games I’m the creative director and main puzzle designer, and for most projects I end up contributing in some form to: production, testing, bizdev, UX design, and more.

TA: What does the name Draknek mean and where did it come from?

AH: Originally I came up with the name when I needed a unique username for Diablo 2 online play – I was just trying to come up with something that sounded like a fearsome warrior’s name. It ended up being my online handle as I moved from Diablo to Zelda message boards to hobbyist gamedev to professional development.

TA: While many longtime fans know of Draknek from Sokobond and Cosmic Express, A Monster’s Expedition is easily my favorite of the lot. I’d love to know how the game changed pre-release during prototyping, and also your thoughts on it now looking back and seeing it alongside Draknek & Friends other games.

AH: In early versions of the game, I wanted to have the discovery of raft travel happen quite late in the game – it felt like the epitome of the “woah, I could have been doing that the whole time” moment we were interested in exploring. However, moving that mechanic earlier gave us a great moment to mark the end of the tutorial, and gave us a lot more flexibility with how parts of the world could be ordered and arranged. It’s now hard to imagine it any other way!

Another big change that happened partway through was the invention of the double-size logs – until we’d added those, the scope of the game was reasonably manageable, but they added lots of interesting edge cases and interactions, which led to so many more great puzzles.

Compared to Draknek’s earlier games, it’s obviously a big step up in terms of production values, approachability, and appealingness to a general audience. I’m still incredibly proud of all of them, but it feels like we managed to make something really special with A Monster’s Expedition – especially with the difficulty level accounting for both beginners and experts depending on where in the world you travel.

TA: What is your favorite project you’ve worked on, and also your favorite current puzzle game?

AH: I’m most proud of A Monster’s Expedition, but the most pleasant to make was probably Cosmic Express – everything went relatively smoothly and we managed to finish it in 9 months total. I wish I could reproduce that process again but I don’t think it’s ever likely to happen.

A recent favourite puzzle game is Leaf’s Odyssey – you play as a ferret named Leaf exploring a world, fighting monsters and learning their behaviour, and collecting keys to explore further. I picked it up expecting to get a sense of it, hit a hard puzzle bottleneck, and put it down forever – but instead I found that it was surprisingly approachable and the puzzle design was near-universally excellent.

TA: What do you look for in a puzzle game when deciding to publish it under the Draknek & Friends label?

AH: It’s funny, because with LOK Digital being our fourth externally developed title that we’re publishing, you’d think we’d have a more fleshed out internal rubric. The single largest factor is if we strongly stand by and believe in the game and developer, followed closely by if we think we can help introduce them to a wider audience. For Bonfire Peaks, that started as a more traditional publishing relationship and then a few months in became much closer to a co-development project when I was given access to the level editing tools. Sokobond Express was us seeing an incredible itch.io game (Subatomic Wire) developed by Jose that was a mix of Sokobond and Cosmic Express, and us realizing that we should ask him if he’d like to work with us and use the official IP to make a mash-up sequel. For Patrick’s Parabox the game was already on track to being very successful but we were able to help with the console porting and releases. LOK Digital is to date the closest to a “traditional” publishing arrangement. When we have the spare bandwidth and see a game we believe strongly in, and think we can really help, we’re usually motivated to start the conversation.

TA: Sokobond Express debuted on Steam a little while ago and has now hit Switch. Is there any chance we will see it on mobile, and how is the Switch launch going?

AH: Watch this space! Regarding the Switch launch, it more or less met our expectations for an end-of-lifecycle release for the Switch. That is to say it didn’t do the same numbers we saw with A Monster’s Expedition, but it was enough to justify the expense of bringing it to the platform. Plus, the more people that can discover and play this excellent game the better!

TA: Over the years, you’ve brought many games to multiple platforms. You’ve also previously given some sales information like here. Do you see a similar split today for your premium games?

AH: Our splits vary depending on the game. For example, on A Monster’s Expedition, that wasn’t available for direct purchase through the App Store for the first three years of its release, since it was on Apple Arcade. While we can’t really get into the specifics of the revenue agreement for Arcade titles, it does mean that we had “zero sales” during that window – so just in terms of sales numbers, Steam was definitely our leading platform. We can’t get into sales splits on PlayStation and Switch sales due to agreements with the platforms, but I think if you see us consistently bringing out our biggest titles like Patrick’s Parabox (console publishing,) Bonfire Peaks, etc. to platforms at the same time, then that can give you a window into it being worth it for us.

TA: How has the response been to Draknek & Friends titles on consoles?

AH: It’s been really interesting. The core thinky community that we hear from on a day to day basis definitely still prefers Steam and mobile, so it’s actually more about building up a new audience for us, and exposing more people to the kinds of games we make. A good example is that A Monster’s Expedition got a second wind when it came to Nintendo Switch in 2021, a little less than a year after we released the game on other platforms. We didn’t really have many Metacritic-qualifying reviews for the mobile and Steam releases even though they were very successful for us, but being able to point to a 92 Metascore for the Switch version – which is one of the highest scoring games on the entire site – was a really special moment for us. Additionally it’s been great working with console first parties to help boost some of our games, like when Nintendo of Europe featured A Monster’s Expedition prominently on the front page of the eShop for a while, or when PlayStation released a PS+ Premium demo of Bonfire Peaks.

TA: Before you started working on your own puzzle games, what were games in the genre you liked?

AH: I’ve always played puzzle games, but I think it wasn’t until I started making a lot of puzzle games that I consciously paid attention to the genre. Some memorable games from the early 2010s include Manufactoria, SpaceChem, and English Country Tune, but I’m sure there’s many examples that predate those which never registered in my brain as “this is a puzzle game and you like puzzle games”.

TA: In a previous interview, you mentioned how making more puzzle games saw you getting better at them, but I wanted to ask you what learnings from prior Draknek & Friends releases have you taken into recent releases?

AH: On the puzzle design side, I think a big thing has been improving my ability to have a mental model of player understanding – internalising what I do/don’t expect players to pay attention to or what’s going to be necessary to teach a certain gameplay concept. It’s a skill that needs to be partially reset with each new game, but generally the more games I work on the faster it is to pick up on the next.

Something I’m trying to take forward from A Monster’s Expedition is the value of approachability – not that our earlier games were completely unapproachable, but they were a bit easier to bounce off. Also the process of adding hints to A Monster’s Expedition (after release) made me wish they’d been there from the start, and I think our games going forward are all likely to have some form of hint system at launch.

TA: Draknek & Friends’ next release is LOK Digital, a word game and puzzler hybrid. It has a demo on Steam right now. What drew you to publishing this specific game?

AH: Short answer: it’s incredible. Slightly longer answer: we’re fans of the source book LOK, and we’ve run in similar circles with Ferran, who is leading development of the Digital version. We’d been following the project since it became publicly announced, and we reached out to see how we could help. After a great call it became clear that we’d love to work with them and help it reach a broad audience. The mix of very approachable word-puzzle gameplay, the rule discovery mechanic of learning the Lok creature’s language, and the depths of mechanics that lead to some absolutely incredible puzzles makes this really special. We’re also super excited with how the recent public test of Daily Puzzles worked out, which itself led to a new way to play the game where you’re quickly scanning the entire puzzle and looking for a point of entry, testing your knowledge of the mechanics. We collected a lot of feedback from the daily puzzles mode, so please stay tuned.

TA: How was it working with Apple for the Apple Arcade release of A Monster’s Expedition?

AH: It was a really good relationship. As mentioned above we can’t really get super into things like day-to-day interactions and revenue splits, but it’s not an exaggeration to say that the game wouldn’t exist in the scope it did, on any platform, had Apple not believed in it and signed it for Apple Arcade. They were also very supportive in helping us make sure that save data transferred between the previously available Apple Arcade version and the paid App Store version so that our players didn’t have to start over. We’d love to work with them again.

TA: Tell us a little bit about your newsletter, Thinky Third Thursday and how you got involved with Thinky Games and the community. The newsletter has been amazing to add upcoming games to my Steam wishlist.

AH: I’m always glad to hear the newsletter has helped someone find fantastic new thinky puzzle games!

I think I may be responsible for coining the word “thinky” as a genre, when I was trying to describe my games as puzzle games distinct from things like Tetris. I’ve always found it a slightly awkward term, but it stuck and I never found anything better, so I figured I might as well lean into it. I set up a discord server for thinky puzzle games back in July 2018 and since then it’s grown into a wonderful community of supportive devs and players.

The newsletter started back in October last year when I had a bit of free time on my hands – I was playing a lot of great thinky games and wanted an outlet to gush about them, and social media increasingly wasn’t feeling like a great place to invest energy into. The good thing about an email newsletter is that a billionaire can’t buy email!

TA: I think the Steam Deck is my favorite puzzle game platform now with it getting so many through Steam and playing great from day one. How has it been for Draknek & Friends releases in terms of reception and have you noticed any uptick in sales from Steam Deck users?

AH: Overall it’s been great! We haven’t seen a clear or specific uptick in sales from Steam Deck users – perhaps because despite how busy we are, we’ve only released one game (Sokobond Express) on Steam since the Deck became commercially available – but player feedback has been tremendous. Any new platform that encourages players to sit down and dig into some absolutely great puzzle games is incredible for the health of the space.

TA: Aside from LOK Digital, what should we expect from Draknek & Friends in 2024?

AH: So far it’s been a busy year for us at Draknek & Friends! We’ve launched Sokobond Express on PC and Nintendo Switch, announced our next published game LOK Digital, crowdfunded a plushie of the monster from A Monster’s Expedition, hired a new Studio Manager, and hosted another successful Cerebral Puzzle Showcase on Steam.

Sokobond Express will hopefully have some more TouchArcade-relevant news soon, and then after that the next game we’re releasing is LOK Digital, coming later this year. We’re so excited to have it out in the world and we think players are going to have a great time with it. We’re still working on parts 2 + 3 of the Lost Memories DLC for Bonfire Peaks, which is taking longer than anticipated but only because it keeps getting better and better – fans of that game are in for a treat when it’s finally ready. There’s also other things in the works that are too soon to talk about.

Additionally, we’ll soon be turning our attention to the Draknek New Voices Puzzle Grant. Originally organised in 2022, this is a grant opportunity for game developers from traditionally underrepresented groups and backgrounds who are interested in designing and developing puzzle games. We’re really excited about bringing that back for a new cohort, so watch this space!

TA: What was your favorite game of 2023, and what are you looking forward to playing this year?

AH: 2023’s puzzle game highlight was probably Can of Wormholes – delightful, surprising, innovative, and weird, in equal measure. I’ve already mentioned Leaf’s Odyssey as a 2024 favourite, and for upcoming games – LOK Digital aside – a few I’m looking forward to are Lab Rat, Arranger, Rise of the Golden Idol, Tempopo, and Tactical Breach Wizards. That said, I expect that by the end of the year I’ll be singing the praises of at least one game that’s not even on my radar yet.

TA: What does a day in your life look like right now?

AH: A lot of context switching!

Office hours at Draknek & Friends start in the early afternoon UK-time. Our core team is based in the UK and US, but we work with plenty of international folks. A day is pretty varied depending on the time of year and what projects we have on. Often I’ll be jumping between development and publishing tasks, like puzzle design, playtesting, localisation, porting to different platforms, or brainstorming with teams.

That’s one side of Draknek & Friends. The other is that when we have projects happening like the Cerebral Puzzle Showcase or the New Voices Puzzle Grant, there’s a lot of behind-the-scenes magic that goes on to make these a success. For example, when we were picking which games to include in the showcase, we had over 600 games to play through and review!

TA: How did this year’s Cerebral Puzzle Showcase go compared to last year? https://www.cerebralpuzzleshowcase.com/

AH: We’re really pleased with how it went! This year was our biggest year ever, with over 300 games and 50 demos in the showcase. As a whole, 2024 has been a brilliant year for thinky puzzle games, and we saw around a dozen games launching into the Showcase.

TA: What are your thoughts on the state of the PC, mobile, and console industry right now when it comes to genres you work with?

AH: Overall the specific genre space – puzzle games that aren’t dexterity driven – has been growing over the last few years. More people are becoming familiar with it because of events like Cerebral Puzzle Showcase, but also because some great mainstream publishers like Annapurna Interactive are really supporting the space. At the same time, discoverability is always a struggle. Dozens, sometimes hundreds of games will launch on Steam, the App Store, and the Switch eShop every day, and it can be really hard for incredible games from teams you’ve never heard of to stand out. Coupled with increased fragmentation of social media platforms and it’s getting harder to reach everyone. With that said, we’re committed and excited by the challenge of continuing to increase the viability of this space across the board.

TA: How do you like your coffee?

AH: I actually don’t drink coffee – I never got a taste for it. My warm drink of choice is a hot chocolate (with cream, but no marshmallows).

I’d like to thank Alan Hazelden and Dana Trebella for their time and help with this interview.

You can keep up with all our interviews here including our recent ones with Peter ‘Durante’ Thoman about PH3 and Falcom here, M2 discussing shmups and more here, Digital Extremes for Warframe mobile, Team NINJA, Sonic Dream Team, Hi-Fi Rush, Pentiment, and more. As usual, thanks for reading.