Earlier this evening I had the opportunity to chat with Hearthstone’s Senior UI Designer Derek Sakamoto and Producer Yong Woo about the game’s upcoming expansion Goblins vs Gnomes, as well as some general points about the game’s release, successes, and design philosophy.
On A Smooth Transition to iPad
I asked why (at least in my opinion) Hearthstone feels less like a PC game that transitioned to iPad and more of an iPad game that has a PC port. Both Mr. Sakamoto and Mr. Woo focused on the emphasis in creating a transplatform title as well as trying to make a game with as tactile a feel regardless of the platform it was on. For example, small details like the Hearthstone box opening up, the shuffle of cards, and the way you drag a card around all create a tactile experience which goes towards Blizzard’s design philosophy of creating a digital card game that didn’t feel like a digital card game. With this in mind, the touch interface feels very intuitive because it’s already a game that attempts to be a physical title in a digital field of play.
Porting the Game to iPhone
While details were expectedly light on specifics, I did ask about the design challenges of porting the game from tablet to phone. The impression I was left with is that Blizzard plans to do far more than just simply take the iPad UI and shrink it down to size. What this means in regards to actual UI design and how it’ll work is still up in the air, but I’m now very curious to see how it’ going to be implemented. Considering Blizzard’s stance on Hearthstone being completely transplatform, regardless of how it’s done, it’ll have to be done in a way to continue full compatibility with every other platform while making sure it’s fun to play on a phone’s small screen. Details as to when the port is coming are still up in the air, but I heard ‘early next year’ thrown around a few times.
Why Goblins vs Gnomes
After the Curse of Naxxramas adventure, it may have come as a shock to some Hearthstone players that the first full expansion would be based on Goblins vs Gnomes. The response I got centered around the desire to make sure that Hearthstone, at its core, is always about “delightful surprise.” In addition, they wanted to take a step back from the Naxxramas adventure and focus on an expansion without geographic limitations and with a theme that would allow them to basically create some wacky and interesting cards that could add to and change the meta game. By using the Gnome and Goblin races and their penchant for crazy inventions, this allowed the HS team to achieve that intent.
The General Tone and Feel of Cards in Goblins vs Gnomes
In my earlier hands-on I mentioned how each of the new cards had a distinct randomness feel to them in terms of effects. This was confirmed by the folks I talked to as they said that randomness is something that is definitely embraced within Hearthstone and something they wanted to explore further in the Goblins vs Gnomes expansion. Randomness, according to the interviewees, presents a lot of novel situations for expert gamers as it allows them to respond to novel situations never before seen before and adjust their strategy to meet it. The other point they made was more interesting. Randomness also has a tendency to create stories within players about crazy outcomes and games that occurred because some random thing happened that either won or lost the game for them. Sharing stories about the game itself seems to be one of the intentions of Blizzard when it comes to Hearthstone so by adding some wacky effects and randomness, they hope that players find the games more memorable.
I also asked whether, in their opinion, the new cards are focused more on experts or if even novices will be able to enjoy them. Their answer was pretty straightforward: the expansion pack should offer something for all types of skill sets and the intent is to provide new cards for all different play styles.
Pricing for the Expansion
Staying true to their free-to-play philosophy, Goblins expansion cards will be sold in separate packs for the same price (in terms of in-game and real-money currency) as the current Expert Card Packs. In addition, dust currently being stockpiled from current cards will be able to create new Goblins cards without anything necessary. Finally, as mentioned before, all the cards in the new expansion will be draftable in Arena without needing to be purchased. Based on my conversations, the goal is to make the expansion as accessible to as many players as possible.
On Modifying the Metagame
One of the more interesting conversations I had with Mr. Sakamoto and Mr. Woo has to do with what they feel is the current state of the meta game in Hearthstone and how they hope to change it with Goblins vs Gnomes. From a gameplay experience, a lot of Hearthstone games these days seem to center around a desire to have a cleared board. An opponent plays a minion, you take care of their minion, they play another, and so on, until minions eventually overpower by clearing a board, allowing easy attack on the hero. With Goblins vs Gnomes, a lot of the new cards have a tendency to have death rattles or other abilities that keep minions on the field in some form or fashion. All of a sudden, it’s not going to be as easy to simply clear the board, and players will have to find new strategies to either deal with those minions, or focus more on dual damage techniques or taking a risk to go agains the hero while leaving minions on the board. It’s certainly an interesting take on the game, and one that I’m looking forward to witnessing from a meta standpoint.
Miscellaneous Details
A new board will accompany the expansion, which will have its own interactive features, and I’ve been told that they will be pretty cool to play with. In addition, when Spectator Mode is eventually launched, players will have the option of turning it off in case they don’t want to have their games broadcasted. Finally, any platform will be able to spectate any game, regardless of what platform that game is on. Oh, also, the spare parts all the cards reference? Those are 1 mana cost random buffs, there’s five different ones that do things like give a character stealth, +1 attack, or other similar small buffs.
Hearthstone’s Goblins vs Gnomes expansion will be available across all platforms next month. Meanwhile, check out the rest of our coverage on the title as BlizzCon continues through tomorrow.
To be fair, other apps add new content for those who purchased it for free as a way of saying thanks for buying our game. I don't see why this shouldn't be any different. These devs are kinda greedy imo.
You're absolutely right. You sound very greedy indeed.
zing
The solution is: The rating of an app (or an update) should be seperated into (a) app-experience and (b) price. Otherwise it will remain an endless debate, because unfortunately... idiots will never die off.
That's an interesting idea, but I can't think of another real-world example of where you can review the price of something. Usually, that's done by "voting with your wallet."
The App Store works around this by requiring you to download the thing you're reviewing. In this case, the one-star reviewers already paid for the game and the right to review it, even if they didn't buy the expansion.
Good on UsTwo for pointing out the whiners.
True - but reviewing each expansion / IAP would be too much, other titles have dozen(s) of IAPs. Even if there is no real world example - for me it would be a very helpful feature - e.g. I would purchase an app / IAP if the user gives 5 stars for the quality / experience, but only 2 stars for the price, on the other hand maybe refrain from making the purchase if I see an overall of 2 or 3 stars.
I hear you, but like video game reviews on a 100-point scale, I think you'd get a false sense of precision. The 5-star review process is subjective and fuzzy as it is, which I think is a good thing.
Are children allowed to write App Store reviews? (Seems like it)
That 964 upvoted this does restore some faith in humanity though. :)
Maybe because some really talented people spent time creating it? They have bills to pay & mouths to feed too...
I don't understand this irrational belief that apps should be free...
There is a huge problem with the disconnect between a average user and the actual process of creating a game.
People don't know how much hard work it really is, and with the app market so saturated, I think the users tend to assume making a game is easy, therefore any work should be free.
Of course there is also the devaluatation from freemium titles, so people begin to justify it by things like
" If the majority of titles are free, why should I ever pay/pay full price?"
Or
" I'll just wait for a sale, it's bound to get cheaper to stay competitive"
It's a serious problem, but i'm not sure there is a solution at this point.
People don't care how much hard work it is. If other titles offer expansions for free, and this one doesn't, then sorry it gets a bad review. It's not the consumers job to empathize with their non-plight.
It's this astounding sense of entitlement right here that drives down the quality of the app store. The developers don't owe you anything at all beyond delivering a good experience in exchange for your initial purchase. If you want to continue to play content that was made by real people using real resources, then if anything you actually owe them for their additional time and effort.
As this is a system-wide problem, it could be solved by an app store going the flat monthly fee - divided among game time played. E.g. if the fee was 15 bucks, and you played 50 hours of GameA and 50 hours of GameB, they'd both get 7.5 bucks. It could be divided among any type of media (music, movies), obviously with Apple taking a share pre-dividing, and it would in one swoop get rid of the Fremium issue or devs having to spend more time thinking about how to monetize rather than how to make the game more fun. It would also be much more fun for the user because you get to test any game, you don't have to repeatedly sign off purchases, you know there's a capped limit, and you'd instantly get any movie/ game/ music you want, Amazon-Prime style.
Sadly all that would do is encourage developers to pad their games out with filler. Monument Valley and Framed, for example, either wouldn't exist or would be much lower quality experiences.
Not necessarily, because if a game is boring, you may stop playing it altogether -- and it would never even be featured by Apple and get good reviews (thus enter the charts), which seems to be at least half the equation of finding players. Still a good question: how would terrific but short experiences be funded?
I like your idea
World of Warcraft's expansion about to hit should be reviewed poorly and cost nothing by your logic.
I can understand an issue between quality vs cost, or even free but terrible, but when you say:
"If other titles offer expansions for free, and this one doesn't, then sorry it gets a bad review."
That's not even logical. It's literally, "this game is bad automatically because i didn't get to try the content for free, for a game I already paid for and enjoyed and got my monies worth from, woe is me!"
It's an instant 180 in perception of value for most of these reviewers.
Last I checked, you are charged an ongoing monthly subscription fee for World of Warcraft (~15$/month?). That fee funds development of expansions.
That fee funds the ongoing server maintenance, electricity bill, staffing for server facilities, etc...
And also a healthy profit for shareholders. Their actual maintenance costs are a fraction of fees, but they make a profit because it is a desirable product.
Your statment was so ideotic, that I'm going to the App Store right now and downloading the update.
Making a living is a non-plight?
Their non-plight, like...getting paid for their hard work and effort? Non-plight like, buying food, paying rent, etc. Yeah, no big deal to not get paid for your work. Consumers probably don't care about what you do, either, so we should probably just expect you to work and not get paid for it either.
You despicable piece of shit. They are doubling the content of an amazing game. Doubling it. They spent months of time and energy working on this, and you're complaining that it's two fucking dollars? Two dollars? Two? They are in good faith giving you hundreds if not thousands of man-hours of passion for the price of a fucking medium box of fries at McDonalds and you have the gall to complain, and minimize the importance of their talent and effort? You don't fucking deserve their game, or anything for that matter. Your parents should beat the shit out of you, and then I should beat the shit out of them for failing to raise you properly.
Jesus Christ simmer down there!
Then don't buy it. But to leave a 1 star review is ridiculous. Mobile gaming is the only space I see reviews used to just vent. A 1 star should be used if the game is bad, our has serious issues and poor support. Not "I don't have two bucks right now." It's hilarious as a console gamer to watch. I see people whining about X-Com Enemy Within being a standalone $12 release and not free update. It costs $30 on Steam and consoles currently. It may have launched for more. It was never a free patch. But here it is, almost out of the blue when previously they said it likely wouldn't happen, for just under 2/3rds off the normal asking price. And people complain. They can't knock $18 off the price without people whining for "free" content that is substantial.
Who is giving EXPANSIONS for free? You get patches, and at times additions or a new mode. Especially with companies utilizing extensive IAP models. But what standalone game without IAP is giving out full EXPANSIONS for nothing?
tl;dr it absolutely IS the consumers job to educated when making value decisions. No one is telling you how to spend your money, but if you're going to publicly run your mouth at least try not to sound ignorant.
Then updates will stop. Free or otherwise.
Most people don't care about how much work it is at all. To a consumer, the production process is transparent (and maybe rightfully so). The only thing that matters for most people is getting the most product that at least partially meets their wants/needs for the least amount of money possible.
This isn't really a game problem... this is something that happens with basically every industry.
Whether a movie costs $200 million or $2 million, whether an author took 3 months or 30 years to write a book, whether that gadget cost $2 or $200 to manufacture, most people simply don't care.
Everyone whines about something or the other costing too much and not giving us what we want for the amount of money we want it at.
Is music too much at a dollar a track? Many of us apparently think so because music is pirated like crazy. Meanwhile, people think mediocre $200 headphones are worth it because a celebrity said so regardless of whether other brands are better engineered or better made.
To us, the quality of a game is 'worth it' and we pay a premium price for premium games. For other people, they simply don't want to pay for it and when asked to do so, they'll balk and complain since they don't get the content they want at the price they want it at.
The difference is people aren't leaving reviews on stereos complaining that they aren't free.
How do we make them believe that apps are worth $100 then
If your app enables a job-to-be-done that I need that is worth more than $100, then I'll pay $100 for your app. Granted, that would not be a mainstream app, but if the ROI works, that's how you sell it.
I've long thought apps are too cheap. You have to educate customers and help them to be better customers. Too many cheap and free apps simply trains customers that things should be cheap or free. Start pricing good apps higher and you might be surprised. I would have paid ten bucks easily for Monument Valley. For me ten bucks is cheap. I don't think I'm alone.
Hey! I thought 10 bucks' a good price for the game, inclusive of the latest update, too. The quality is simply there.
I feel that the problem is that society does not recognise the value in quality. Which is why, we are (usually) blinded by brands, which mostly take precedence over durability, ease of servicing, etc.
Give people quality and value, charge a good but fair price for it, and there's a large segment that will go for it. That's what Apple does, they basically tell the cheap crowd to piss off. App developers need to do more of this, tell the people who want everything cheap and free to piss off. Then the rest of us can get back to having nice things.
I think there would be more of this if more people gave away free stereos. But in fact, people complain about higher priced products all the time.
But I'm sure we see people complaining about products with low priced options all the time. I see "X offers this option but costs $Y less" arguments often without considering other factors. Heck, we're on a iOS gaming site... we should be used to seeing people saying how overpriced Apple hardware is because a comparable tablet/music player/computer/phone is cheaper and/or does more and leave uneducated reviews/comments about it everywhere.
The difference is that the lowest established baseline price for these products isn't free.
It is a game problem, especially on appstore. I often see poor reviews of a game, complaining that sequel hasn't come out. That'd be like leaving a one star review on psn for Chrono Cross because Squenix never made a third game.
I was originally commenting on the perceived problem that mobile gamers don't pay for content, so this is entirely a different issue.
However, bad reasons for poor reviews is hardly a game problem. Again, it's just a problem with general human behavior in general that we happen to notice more. I'm sure the demographics don't help but in general it's not creating a problem we're not seeing elsewhere.
You can log on to Amazon, Yelp or whatever other user submitted review site and find a plethora of biased reviews for factors that aren't even related to the product at hand - slow shipping times, unavoidable issues, hate for the company/person responsible for the product, associating poor past performance, etc.
The real problem is the disconnect between the average players and their seemingly absent brains :/
Yeah, right: others make completely free updates, so everybody should do this. Oh, wait! Many others just fill their games with timers and IAPs to the point you have to pay to do anything. Everyone should use this gaming model! Oh no, no, wait: there's people willing to pay € 69,99 to buy video games on home consoles, and pay another € 69,99 for the same game on the next gen a year later. This is the way to go!!
-_-
Each developer chooses what's good for itself, but I don't understand why there's so many stupid people that can't understand the production value of a game.
Less that 6 bucks for Monument Valley + expansion is a steal. I wish I could pay them more to support this studio.
Thank You!! These people will be the down fall of IOS gaming.
I wish that made sense. Fucking weirdo alarmists.
▐ ・ ‿ ・▐
Other apps rely on the microtransaction model to remain marketable.
And that kind of game are just the worst because to bring a profit they need to make the concept of the game around the idea of microtransaction instead of some nice and interesting gameplay solution.
I gladly pay 5 bucks for a game and doesn't have to worry about finding some pay wall that prevent me from enjoying the content.
A very good example is the well-known Knight of Pen & Paper. You pay for the game and inside you've microtransaction for the lazy enough who doesn't want to just play the game as its intended to be played.
But you can easily play it without any extra payments at all.
To be fair, many other apps are loads of crap.
Because this stuff takes time and money and hard work and people should actually pay for things instead of expecting everything for free.
Bang on the money!
You act like $2 more is some sort of ripoff, yet you forget that psp and as games of the same caliber would cost 5x more easily. For the price of a coffee, you're supporting an awesome developer with upfront costs to pay to own the games newer expansion pack. That's hardly a bad deal when you're rewarded with about the same amount of content as the original game.
Heck, most coffees here cost more...
Especially when if you have the game you already know if the new content is worth getting. If you actually want it, then it must be worth paying for, otherwise you wouldn't care that it's not free.
Only comment that made sense so far.
Soooooo... You're unemployed? Or do you work for free as well?
LOL
Of course you never work for free. You get paid for the first week, then it only makes sense that they don't have to pay for any future work you do. But again it's not for free. They did have to pay you for that first week.
Idiot
Expansion packs to any PC game usually cost at least 10x as much as this one ( thinking of FFXI and WoW). And it's in support of the devs. If you like it enough that you want to play the expansion, you should be willing to pay for it. Good entertainment isn't and shouldn't be free.
you're a moron. you can't keep dishing out new content without any sort of profit. teams work on these things and are PAID to do so. haven't you seen the trailer for the dlc? was that just incomprehensible to you? money's gotta come from somewhere, and if it's continually comin' from the companies who're creating the damn products that they intend to sell, they're not going to be making a profit, therefore won't be making a living, therefore won't be able to live. god, i feel ridiculous explaining this, it's so painfully elementary. piss off, you incompetent twat.
these are the same deadbeats who defiled badland with crap reviews because, god forbid, they weren't being handed enough free post-launch content, despite their strongest argument being the coffee-change they tossed over for the game months beforehand.
Lead by example then, stop accepting a paycheck.
Because you want something but you're too cheap to pay $2 for it? Do you and others like you even understand economics? IF they can't continue to support themselves by charging for what they do in this game they'll have to make money doing other things.
Two Dollars. And you complain. How cheap can you people get?
You, sir, are an idiot. And a cheapskate. $2 add-on to a $4 game.
This has been a 5-star game from the start, so ignore the “1 star until everything is free!” kiddy brigade. If $2 is “greedy,” then you simply don’t understand the value of creative work. You'll learn.
I don't see how charging for the work you do is being greedy. How entitled have game consumers become? Everyone wants everything for free these days. I guess I'm just old and remember a time when nothing was free and you simply paid for stuff.
Do you even have a job?
Because developers want to support their families and build more games. The bass ackwards value perception by people about apps is crazy. We're discussing $1.99 for MONTHS of work and you're talking about greedy.
Oh good, I was hoping some of the dimwits who complained about the update would be reading this post so they could get a good helping of our contempt. You don't have to pay anything for the contempt either! We're happy to heap it on you for free.
The thing is, Monument Valley ISN'T like any other app or game. The craftsmanship and artistry of this game are absolutely unparalleled. All the article is saying is, if we aren't going to pay for awesome content, who'd ever want to create it?
To be fair, a lot of high quality, premium games offer paid expansions, via in-app purchases too. I guess that some of the backlash could have been reduced if the game had a "Chapter 1" menu from the start, like in most other episodic games.
There are a couple of ways:
- the game goes out incomplete, you will get content updates "free" until it's finished (usually you pay a discounted price)
- you subscribe, you get the content updates (as that's the inly way they can make you keep on playing and paying)
- a completely different game is sold that you can buy separately (usually this is the solution, but on phone it's possible to just update)
- a separate dlc is sold (again, on phone it's possible within the app)
- the game is free, but there is extra content to pay for
This is more like a DLC, but could have been sold as a separate app. Being a programmer myself (though not game developement), I know how incredibly much effort and time is put on a project like this. It's completely normal they are asking money for it...
You are an asshole.
Your right and some of those devs are being far too nice. Look at Junk Jack X! It's amazing the updates those devs have been doing! They should be charging for them! There's three times the content there was and those crazy loveable fools give it away for free! I always buy some of their IAP (which I must add you do not have to purchase in anyway) Good for the devs who made this game for asking for some compensation for the obvious time they took building these puzzles. It's a couple bucks people, used to buy super nes games for sixty freaking bucks.... Stop being a bunch of losers, if you can't afford it then you shouldn't be playing it! Devs gotta eat too you know! Keep charging devs! Or in PixBits start charging for updates!
If 10 people spend 6 months making a game, should it be free? Do you understand the cost of employing 10 people for 6 months? Assuming a low salary of $2k a month, that's $120,000.
Just because 10 people spend 6 months making a game it doesn't mean they deserve to make money. If you want a guaranteed pay check, get a salaried job. If you want to start your own company doing your hobby for a living, you get to take the risk of the market rejecting your business model.
Everyone likes to complain about entitled consumers, but some content creators act like they have a god-given right to succeed as a business.
If people really don't want the game, then of course they're under no obligation to buy it just because the developers worked hard on it. But the people complaining about the developer charging $2 for their work are people who actually want to play the game, yet they think they're entitled to have it for free. I can't think of any rational way to defend that attitude as making sense or being in any way mature.
I understand the sentiment, but that is not what I meant. I don't mean you should be giving them money if you don't think the game is worth it, but you shouldn't be complaining when creators ask perfectly reasonable amounts of money for things they make. We're talking about a $4 game for fuck's sake.
Yeah, I won't be buying this game.
This entitlement mentality is a much larger cultural problem. I'm not sure how we are going to reverse this way of thinking.
purchased.. free.. not sure this makes sense. It was free. If you don't want the extra content, you don't buy it. Chances are if you like the game, you will like it, however.
6 dollars isn't even enough to buy two coffee at a cafe, so paying 6 dollars for a beautiful game made with love is very very fine to me
I've never seen this "free free" price you speak of. Monument Valley costs four bucks, it was never free. The expansion is two bucks. You are the problem.
If we equate this to any other industry nobody would even think twice.
Me: "So, I paid you to build this house, I lived in it for a year and loved it."
Home builder: "That's great to hear! So you'd give us 5 stars for the quality of the house we built?"
Me: "Oh, yeah. Definitely. But now I have decided that I want you to build a sun-room and a bigger deck. When will that be ready?"
Home builder; "Well, that's going to take a lot of time and effort. The cost is $15,000."
Me: "WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?! YOU ARE SO GREEDY. ONE STAR!"
An actual developer here. Well, if it's greedy don't play it. Go play farmville. If you want quality you've got to pay and that's it. Quality doesn't come free. And honestly are you that CHEAP? $6 is too much for you? Get a job. Do you want to flood the app store with farmville clones? I don't think so...
It blows my mind that 55 people so far have upvoted this. Just. WOW.
remember when super nintendo games cost $69 and they were basic and too hard to get more than a few levels in before ya gave up... yeah stop whining
I blame the system. If you have every other dev shoveling freebie crap that to most people is good enough, then it will devalue the good stuff. It all becomes a race to the bottom for app devs. My radical idea: don't let apps be free. At minimum, apps should be $1. If songs on iTunes aren't free, why should apps?
True skate does this all the time yet no one complains
Some of their new skateparks are barely worth the $1 they're asking for it. Badly textured and around 5 x 10 meters in size. Not saying they should be free, though, they should just be better.
This happened when tiny thief came out, too. Most of the down votes, were from people who got it free on apples Christmas program.
You need to post this as a review. This is ridiculous. People suck. These are the people who will spend 5 bucks on a latte.
Sorry not true...don't like coffee. But also I know this is an expansion and some companies do charge for them. And when those companies do there usually is done backlash. Sad but true
done -> some. Darn autocorrect!
Fine, then a soda or something. The "$5 for a coffee" line is to show that many people will pay more than this for something they will literally piss away. Yet when it's software, somehow it should be theirs for free forever.
Totally agree! Sites like TouchArcade and our community (still, to a much lesser extent) are the last islands of sanity. Too bad that user reviews are so tightly tied to the appearance and ranking of an app. When in the wrong hands, reviews become a powerful weapon and easy to manipulate. We believe that one of the main reasons for this app consumer madness is the lack of a community of reviewers behind the App Store. For a couple of months now, we've been preaching about the need of a strong community spirit among app users, and how this could help many to understand why paying for quality content should be the norm and not the exception.
Ugh! Some people. This is a brilliant game & is very fairly priced. No complaints here. I thank the developers for such a wonderful experience.
I was under the impress way back when, that they said if they came out with new content it would be free. Maybe that's what is causing the uproar?
Even if they did... two dollars?! Complaining about two dollars?! That is free.
Doesn't matter, if they promised free content and then decided to make it paid they deserve the flack they're getting
1) Please link to where they promised free content. (They didn't.)
2) In a fair world, this DLC would be $15-$20, not $2.
3) Do people like playing games like this? If they do, they have to be paid for. Otherwise they won't be created.
4) Two f-ing dollars. How could anyone complain about two f-ing dollars. It's embarrassing.
Notice i said IF. I replied to your flawed statement regarding a situation where they promised free content. I never said they actually did
As for 3. No, i'd rather see these types of pretentious wannabe art games disappear. I'm so tired of non games like Dear Esther, Gone Home, The Stanley parable and DQ getting hype from bloggers while having almost no gameplay
If i wanted art, i'd get some from real artists like reading a good book, watching a great movie or listen to music
I'm not sure what those other ones are and I don't think TA's talked about them, but I highly object to you calling DQ a non-game with no gameplay. Dragon Quest is a great series with deep, compelling RPG gameplay. Stand down!
Yea my bad. I used DQ for Depression Quest, not the brilliant Dragon Quest
You're right, TA haven't talked about any of the others but they are part of the trend were you release artsy games that substitutes story for gameplay and gets liberal arts majors who blogs all hyped up. They paved the way for games like MV and i for one would be happy if they disappeared and i certainly wont support them nor will i be labelled all kinds of things because i want gameplay and content in my games
I've bought plenty of premium games such as Civ Rev, Banner Saga, Bioshock etc. I have no problem paying a premium price for a premium experience but all those games have hours upon hours of content and great gameplay
Monument Valley was likely the best game that came out last year. That it achieved that in approximately 90 minutes of gameplay only illustrates how powerful it was. (And no matter how you cut it, $4 for 90 minutes of entertainment is a completely fair price.)
Do yourself a favor and play it. Why relegate yourself to commenting from the sidelines?
Because by paying for it i'm supporting the idea that it's ok to release a game with less than 2 hours of gameplay
I wouldn't pay 1$ for it either. I'm firmly against the trend of releasing shorter and shorter games disguised as psedu art no matter how much it cost
It's neat that your money is worth so much but your time is not. How many of these threads, about a game you won't even try, are you going to troll?
You need to read up on trolling my friend and also, calling someone who provides valid arguments a troll is basically trolling which is quite ironic don't you think?
I'm not your friend. You call things that I like "pretentious wannabe art games," and you post repeatedly in threads about games that you will not play. That's the definition of trolling. That's not particularly ironic. It's just a little sad.
Someone needs to look up the definition of trolling
Tip my friend - It's not what cool kids at reddit says it is
So let's get this straight
You are the arbiter of what is
a. a good game
b. a good value
c. the definition of trolling
what else can I learn from you today?
Lots more but you'll have to pay 3$ for each lesson. I need the money to buy the next 4 MV levels!
You are smart and witty, and probably handsome, too. I hope we can continue this all day long.
Sorry, your initial time is up. For more, please insert 3 dollars
Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Why is it not okay to release a game with less than two hours of gameplay? Short stories are a thing; why not short games? (The two best games of any length that I played last year—Monument Valley and Device 6—were in the two hour range.)
90 minutes? Those 10 levels took me less than 40 minutes. I didn't rush through them either; it's just that each level was extremely easy.
There's a degree of toxicity that comes with any form of add-on / DLC / updates I find understandable. It's not a new thing, as a kid I'd be tormented by the necessity to buy a single already on an album I bought for the B-Side, record companies were double dipping into my pockets - why wasn't this song on the album!? So while this is a different situation all I'd say is - keep your releases separate - everyone loves a successful follow-up.
I disagree. Dealing with multiple version-copies of apps is a pain in the ass, while doubling the content of my existing app for half price is awesome.
I'll take having multiples of everything rather than one core file to install that then has to download and install multiple updates to be experienced.
Totally agree, one starring a game this fantastic over something as petty as the fact that you have to pay is absurd. If you fundamentally disagree with the idea of charging for add on content, perhaps you ding it a star or asterisk your review in the text, but for pete's sake, the game is objectively one of the best games in this genre and to rate it so low on that basis is unfair.
My only complaint is that the game eventually ends. I'm trying to avoid playing the new levels all at once so I have something to look forward to.
Sad, but after Tiny Thief (which had actual, real problems with the update, in addition to the paid DLC), this isn't surprising.
I wonder if they'd be facing similar reviews if this expansion had been released as a separate app download with a separate price.
That's the real lesson here. Always release new content as a sequel so as not to befuddle the small minded.
I suggested that to them before release, that they should release it as a separate app, but they thought they HAD to release it as an update since they had promised an update.
It is a glorious game. I've replayed it 4 or 5 times, and bought the expansion as soon as it came out. Please don't be disheartened ustwo, many of us love your game and appreciate you producing the expansion which you richly deserve to be paid for.
VERY VERY sad 😰😰😰😰DAY FOR US IOS GAMERS 😒😒😒😒😒😒😒😒😷😷😷
Honestly... some people do not deserve anything. It's a toxic mindset, the uberconsumer, who has never once attempted to create and sell something that might resemble a labor of love, who feels entitled to all things because nothing has any real value to them above the price tag. Absolutely disgusting. I have little money for games, but I part with my cash willingly to support those people who create the little things that enhance my life in meaningful ways.
Those F2Players (AKA Pay2Play Haters) sure are an entitled bunch.
Guarantee the majority are kids, without any actual income to spend in IAPs, venting their frustration at life for their situation on a Gmae they liked well enough for its new content's inaccessibility to rile them up. In that respect, it's kind of a compliment. Lol.
Doubling the content (nearly) but there was very little content to begin with. I think the eight extra levels should have been free to those who bought the original.
Boo!!! 👎👎👎
I wish you to work for free moron
Your hard, so we now know you can spell moron
And we know you don't know the difference between your and you're.
Wow, you really are a moron.
Why is everyone pretending not to understand the difference between having a job and running a business?
You get paid to work a job because someone asked you to do it. No one asked them to make a game, and they don't automatically deserve to make a profit just because they did.
With that logic of yours we wouldn't have anything in life.
As an employee, you work for a business (company,...) right? Even though you are paid for the job you "were asked to do" but, the owner of the company has to pay you, the other employees, and him/herself. Do you still follow me? So, the profit is necessary to make a sort of living. And if you were to run your own business, you would need some profit to live.
I am curious to know how you would do to survive without making money to pay for the basics. Having mom paying for you doesn't count.
Completely fallacious and horribly flawed logic
Just because someone make a product doesn't mean they're guaranteed revenue. The market goes by supply and demand. Capitalism baby
By your, extremely moronic, logic i could make the worst game ever, price it 100$ and complain when it doesn't sell. See how stupid that is?
Now i haven't rated this game because frankly i'm so tired of 'it's an artsy experience' games that i refuse to buy a game which can be completed in an hour. Yes it's 2 dollars but as the market is currently that's not cheap for a game on the appstore. We can argue if that's bad or not but that's besides the point. They're making a game in the current market and that's where they have to compete
I bought a burger. It was delicious, I wish there had've been more, though. So I expect the burger place to give me another burger for free, because I bought one, so I'm obviously entitled to another.
Well said!
Do people realize developers have to eat too?
Evidently not. Welcome to humanity.
So that means they have an inherent right to overprice a game and complain when people are unhappy with that?
Well, I have to say, if anything above zero is considered "overprice", that makes me sad.
In that manner, only the big guns can survive, and with that less choices in the mobile gaming scene.
Well, I understand that to you the price of this particular game is worth zero, because its not your cup of tea. Heck you are even against the game direction, which is fine, we all have our own opinions.
But when the majority says anything above zero is overpriced, it's kinda makes me sad for people who choose to stay in that industry.
The devs are not complaining that the sales are low. I am just not sure that they should think that their game worth nothing.
So anyone who creates any value should think that their work is worthless? Maybe it is worthless, but should anyone believe whatever they do is overpriced unless its zero?
We all have our own opinions, but I think its a stretch to say anyone who thinks their work should be more than zero in price to be "entitled".
Well. This has encouraged me to re-DL monument valley!
I find this a difficult one, tbh.
On the one hand, Rovio churned out absurd quantities of free updates in their pre-freemium days, in ways that set an unreachable benchmark for many devs.
On the other hand, there are devs that make this level of outrage eminently understandable. Sid Meier's plane-based strategy games were pointless for gamers, but useful as cash cows; the recent addition of Civ "2" to the App Store (£10ish, for no significant new gameplay?) played into a similar theme.
And on my third hand, I'd gladly pay £20 to have Real Racing 3 in its original, pre-update, less hyper-freemium state. And that applies equally to a barrel load of similar freemium efforts, for whom "free updates" are basically gouging mechanisms.
I'm gonna check this out, because the only criticism of Monument Valley I had was that it ended before it got hard enough. Thanks for the heads up!
Ignore the trolls. Apple does. This game won a design award, and its likely that it will continue to "win" in the marketplace.
Alright, even though I don't have time in my gaming schedule to play another new game, I'm grabbing it and the expansion just so I can leave a good review. This has been on my list since it came out, but I'm still catching up on my backlog. I just bought the Knights of Pen & Paper added DLC. This is a good reminder to write a new review for that too! Thanks, TouchArcade.
And I would ask that anyone prepared to leave a one star review do so with their real name. Take responsibility for your "I want everything free" childishness, IMO.
Hipstamatic adds a $0.99 expansion every single month and no one bitches about that. Gamers are the worst.
Thanks for the reminder to go leave a five star review after playing through the expansion earlier!
I am sorry but I do not blame people! Although I loved MV, it was so very short, esp. for the cost. I expected the new levels to be free as the game only lasted an hour.
I would NEVER rate a game 1 star because of that, but I can understand why people are upset.
$2 for about an hour of gameplay. 2$! People pay almost $20 to go see a 1:30 long movie. They're also buying $60 games that can last only 10 hours sometimes. That's $10 / hour of gameplay.
Video games takes months and months of crazy effort to build, and you think 2 freaking bucks is too expansive? The phone on which you're playing costed $700 and you're complaining for 2 bucks?
Fallacious and flawed
The market is what it is. MV doesn't exist in a vacuum and it's content/price ratio is too low. That's just how it is
I can't (understand it.) If you have a beef with the length of the game for $4, leave a bad review for the game from the git-go or contact the developer and tell them you think it's inappropriately priced. Don't complain because there's a later add-on for a reasonable price. You were never promised more content when you bought the game for $4 so you're not entitled to an expansion for free.
I can't believe how entitled people are about tablet games. The same people drop $60 on questionable XBOX and PS4 titles. Then turn around and spent $20 on DLC.
Good point, one of the few on this article
They definitely should have made the 1 star review from the start because honestly, charging premium price (as the market currently stands) and then delivering one hour of gameplay is not ok in my opinion
Which is why i never bought MV
If you never played the game, you won't understand why it's worth way more than $4.
Why wouldn't you want to experience one of last year's best games for $4? Why would you deprive yourself of that? You're the one losing out.
I've seen enough to know it's yet another pretentious wannabe art game, sacrificing content for the illustion of being a work of art
Those games can't disappear soon enough imo. There are plenty of 2-3 dollar games on the appstore that offers lots of content and great gameplay. I'll stick to those
Dude, it's a *puzzle* game. And a creative one at that.
In what world is $4 a premium price for a game? I can accept that you feel that it's priced too high but premium priced it is not.
Did you contact the developer and tell them that you think it should be cheaper? No. You didn't even leave a review.
This is the reason no one is making anything other than crappy free play to play games. Would you rather it be free and have to spend "$20 for a bucket of gems" to gat past an annoying artificial 1 hour delay?
And 1 star? Really? 3 maybe for it being overpriced but 1 star is only appropriate for truly bad it non-working games.
This is why we can't have nice things.
4$ IS premium price on the appstore, like it or not. No game exists in a vacuum, it must compete with the games in the same market
No, i didn't contact the developer because i knew from articles and screenshots that it wasn't my kind of game and why would i leave a review of a game i never played?
I buy lots of premium games - games with content like Bioshock, Civ Rev, Banner Saga etc. I hate freemium games, that's not what this is about so don't give me the tired old cliche about i'm the reason why we don't have premium games
I'd gladly pay 20$ for a proper simcity game on IOS
Wow, this is surprising news indeed. It doesn't make me sad, it makes me mad. This game has had in indescribable impact on my life, as silly as that may sound, and I was overjoyed to pay the lousy two dollars to get all these new levels. Playing it again this morning brought all those great feelings back. I actually forgot how amazing a game this was. When it first released, I played through the entire thing and was so satisfied with the time I spent, regardless of challenge, length, or whatever "negatives" people are placing on it. This is so disappointing, I can only imagine how ustwo are feeling about this. I'm going to the AppStore right now to leave a 5 star review and I encourage anyone else who is as upset over this as I am to do the same.
People is cheap, and don't understand the importance to support the art behind the effort of real quality developers, yes is truly sad to realize that. This game deserves the best and people should be glad to pay for more of it.
I struggle with the idea this game lacked content to begin with. Under $5 for an hour of visually arresting art and compelling mechanics. If you want something that takes you "longer" I am sure you can go find plenty of timer based games to play. As the article notes these sorts of reactions are why we can't have nice things on the IOS platform.
Fallacious
There are plenty of 2 dollar games which 10 times the content and no timers/freemium/engergy system crap
its simple people, vote (on itunes and in RL) or just STFU. everyone's entitled to their opinion. no matter how stupid it may seem to some, 1 person = 1 vote.
Yes, but you're assuming others want to hear it.
No more/less than yours mine or eli's. This is not a case where you can have your cake and eat it too. If you trade with the masses you don't get to be immune from their wrath. Its business. They made a business decision and this happens to be the outcome, in this case. Live and learn or take your toys and play in another sandbox.
We're taking our toys and playing in another sandbox. Surely you don't want all mobile devs doing that?
No, not you but the devs who makes artsy story telling crap with no content? Yea, they can go make their games on another platform for all i care
I don't care about the price point, making a game with an hour of gameplay is an insult to old school gamers and i'll never pay for it
For the record i have bought several of your games because they have lots of content and are well made
Downvoted your comment.
Yes, but you're assuming others want to hear it.
I'm kinda through with reading all this freetard stuff about "apps should be free", "apps should be expanded indefinitely", "2 dollars is greedy", "devs should work for nothing", etc.
Paid sales for us are pitiful on iOS now even with bowing to that peer pressure, so we're flat giving up on it. If our next Best Little War Game comes to iOS it will do so for the price it's going on Steam - $9.99.
No-one is saying Apps should be free or expanded indefinitely of that developers should work for nothing. Those are just the straw man arguments that some people are using against people who expected this update to be free.
I suspect that most of the people who are complaining would be perfectly happy if this update was free, but the next one was paid. The just expected that maybe their $4 would get them a bit more than one hour of playtime.
I'm not taking sides on this one, but there are some silly arguments being thrown around.
People are saying that both in this thread, generally and even silently (by not spending). But mine is more of a general point that applies to all the endless whining from self-entitled people that think a game should cost $0-$3 just because it can be run on a phone. Like that makes it easier to develop for than PC or Mac.
No. You're incorrectly inferring it from what they say.
It's not an inference, I've seen it written down many many times.
Not in this thread.
Oh and developing for a phone isn't easier than a PC, but the size of the market outs much bigger and the marketplace is that much more crowded. It's just a reflection of that that means most games will have to be very cheap to make a profit - and even then your pods aren't great unless you've got something really special.
That was true a few years ago. Not so anymore, not even close. Short version is we can't afford to practically give stuff away anymore because very few games get anything like the installs they used to.
I replied to this earlier, but it's not there now. Has my past been deleted for some reason?
Weird. My missing post has reappeared.
It's the spam filter. Comments sometimes get stuck in there until Jared or Eli come and manually push them out. It's a bit zealous for an automaton.
Ah - thanks
And how do you expect your earnings to be on Steam?
It's a cut throat market and while it might be a little easier on PC there are plenty of good games not earning enough in that platform too
People wanting free is the reason iOS games are so terrible now. All that's being put out are fermium games with artificial delays that try to get you to buy a bag-o-gene for $5. $10, &20.
Look what happened to dungeon siege. An excellent game destroyed with the greed-I'm model. I'd rather pay $20 on time for it to be as intended.
Just re-downloaded and bought the new levels. I'll be happy to add a 5 star review to help balance the scales.
Will buy the expansion now, even if I am only a few levels into the original game, also will give a five star review.
So this game including expansion is USD 6 and people give 1 star ratings because of this? Are you nuts?
And all this while a real money extortion scheme like Real Racing 3, an abomination second to none, still averages 3-4 stars!?
This is so depressing to me. I remember when a SNES game would cost sixty bucks, and you couldn't put it in your pocket. Monument Valley is a work of art and I'm also going to 5-star it and get the expansion just to tilt the scales in the right way again.
UsTwo had trouble breaking even with Whale Trail, too-- another great game. Or maybe they just want MORE MONEY, which is fine.
I remember some SNES games were as high as $80!
What SNES game could you complete in an hour?
As for a work of art, i want games not weak attempts at art. There are far better mediums and artists for that. I'll read a good book or watch a great movie or listen to a great album if i want art
Lots of them, especially the "run to the right and fight all the guys" variety. I'm sure you can find a list somewhere if you don't believe me.
As for art, we all like what we like, but if you're one of the one-star-reviewers of this game because of a $2 add-on, then we have a problem.
I'm not one of the people rating it. I don't even own the original 'game' because i'll never play a game with just an hour of gameplay. It's insulting
As for SNES games, surely you're not comparing speed runs which require extensive knowledge of the game before even being remotely possible with a game which can be completed in 1-2 hours on the first try?
Serious question: how old are you? Do you remember the SNES from when new games cost $60, and all you had was magazine reviews and box art to go on? Or is your main experience with this era from Virtual Console or other retrospective "best of" lists? Because in those bad old days, getting a short, crap game was the norm, not the exception. Deep epics are what we remember best, but only because they were the top 5% of the available catalogue.
Let's argue back and forth on the Internet all day about a $6 game you're unwilling to try.
I bought the C64 at launch so i think i'm old enough to have a valid opinion - not that age has anything to do with this
I never, ever, had a game on one of those old consoles/pcs like Amiga i could complete in an hour without having played it before. Not one
Your opinion is valid no matter what your age. I'm just trying to understand why someone would feel so strongly different about this. Not being around when games were expensive and short would do it.
Here is a sorted list of short SNES games, none of which you played or heard of, I guess. http://www.howlongtobeat.co...
Ever been to a movie theater in the last 10 years? Same price:hours ratio, except you need to pay again if you want to watch the movie again.
Damn, so you'll never play Super Mario Bros. 1 and 2, Contra 1-3, Final Fight, Castlevania 1, the Double Dragon games, the Gradius series, the R-Type series, Mega Man 1 and 2, Bionic Commando, Sonic the Hedgehog 1/2, Gunstar Heroes, the Streets of Rage series, etc?
Man, that's pretty weak for someone who's supposed to be hardcore.
Could you complete any of them in less than 10 hours on your first attempt? Nope
Uh, sure you can. It's literally impossible to not finish most of those in an hour and change unless you put the controller down or keep failing. I used to spend $15 to rent three NES/SNES games over the weekend just because I knew I'd have them cleared in a jiff. 10 hours is absolutely ridiculous. How do you spend ten hours clearing six stages in Final Fight? Even Zelda 1 only took me about five hours my first time through. I think on the NES, the only games I played that crested the ten hour mark were FF1, DQ2, DQ3, and Zelda 2. And yes, on my first time through. I can finish SMB1 in about six and a half minutes nowadays. Still spent a fiver to buy it on Virtual Console. Twice.
I'm sorry but i call crap on you completing SMB1 in a couple of hours the first you played it, same with Zelda 1
Also, you seem to be misunderstanding 'first time'. It's as in the first time you ever played it so i'll repeat my statement - i doubt you cleared any of those games in less than 10 hours the very first time you ever tried them
Or to put it another way - if game a random kid MV and SMB1 and had him play each non stop until he completed it which do think would take longer?
I did, but you've already decided I'm a liar, so I guess we're at an impasse. Good luck in your future endeavors!
Well, if you're actually arguing MV has just as much gameplay as SMB1 then we are indeed at an impasse because frankly that's just ridiculous
At any rate, good luck to you
You're allowed to play Monument Valley more than once, too.
Thank you. I was very upset when I saw the ratings. That's horrible!
I don't write reviews in the AppStore often, but I've written one now and told all my friends about this and they're pissed too and will give high ratings and reviews.
Those damn Freemium-Kids!
Im not the guy who rated 1 star but considering how short it is...I understand some people don't like that it cost 1,99$ (just for 8 levels) because you can have a complete game for only $0,99 or free with much more content and replay value also fun and beautiful.
Spot on
Just because some people are desperate for games to be art doesn't mean it justifies lack of content for the average gamer
I'm so tired of bloggers like on TA giving 5 stars to apps that barely qualifies as games and i'm using my consumer right to vote with my wallet
"I only play paid games"
But to be honest, paying extra 2$ for this expansion looks like a rip off for me...
I bought ios games for 6,10 and 20$ but that doesn't mean I'll pay extra 2 for this, why?
Well after playing monument valley, witch I totally loved and enjoyed, me and I'm sure lots of other people wanted more for two reasons.
The first is because the game was so awesome
The second is because we felt we deserve more levels for what we paid
Finally they did add more level for us, but unfortunately they made us pay for it.
I don't want to repeat my self, but I really hate fremium or free games and I only play paid games still this expansion pack looks like a ripoff for me
"I really hate fremium or free games... but unfortunately they made us pay for it."
Noted.
dense half-wits like those whining, emoji-spamming, unintelligible leeches bawling over premium new content makes it utterly embarrassing to be involved in this market.
I think there's a difference between a DLC and an expansion, a DLC is as it's name indicate: Downloadable Content meaning that more often than not is content that doesn't expand the game or makes a difference in the game in a significant way.
Now an expansion adds new stuff to the content and can tweak the game in ways that make it feel fresh again.
A clear example would be comparing all that CoD maps offered as DLC to per say, XCOM's The Enemy Within or Dishonored's expansion.
Complaining for missing or meaningful content is OK, compiling about a paid expansion ISN'T and would NEVER be ok, no mater the length of the original game.
But that's just my opinion about this.
Xcom the Enemy Within is a standalone game, not DLC. Regardless, there are all kinds of DLC--- from horse armor to entirely new campaigns-- It doesn't imply anything other than it's "downloadable content".
These whining children have it backwards. Freemium was a response to an unsustainable premium business model
Just to clarify, Enemy Within wasn't available as traditional DLC within Enemy Unknown on consoles. It was a separate product but also contained the original content, just like the new iOS version. It was only on PC that it required the original game.
It's okay. We can have nice things! I have plenty.
I can sympathise with the disgruntled - though a 1 star review is extreme.
A lot of games these days release in an incomplete form with more content to be added to round it out to a full size. At $4 for an hour of gameplay, Monument Valley certainly looked like a prime candidate for this.
Oh and I really don't imagine anyone expects developers to work for free when they want expansions to be free. They probably expect the free expansions to creat a degree of goodwill and publicity which would increase sales of the game. After all anyone who didn't buy the game because of its short length will be more likely to sway when the game suddenly doubles in size. It's almost impossible to know for sure, but it's entirely possible that bringing out the expansion for free would have made more money than charging for it.
(That post was nicely broken into paragraphs, but the TA app stripped them out)
I just logged in to say “kudos” for being the first dissenter in this thread to actually share a reasoned and logical opinion. You haven’t changed my mind, but I sure as hell appreciate the way you presented your case.
Thanks!
This just makes me sad.. And a little worried about the future of the App Store.
Gosh I used to have to save up for weeks as a kid just to buy one video game.. These days you can get a hell of a lot of really cool content for some pocket change, and yet people still find a way to complain about it. smh
This is the truly incredible part to me. I remember working for MONTHS as a kid to make $50 to buy a NES game. Now you can buy far better games for the change you find between your couch cushions and it's not enough for people.
I remember buying Spy Hunter on NES for $50. An endless driver as it would be known now. Imagine that even being more than $1 these days.
this sort of thing always worries me that no one will develop premium titles for ios (see rubicons post above). I buy many of the SE titles and will be buying the new XCOM later this week, but I'm also 35 and have the discretionary income to do so. I have to believe that there are many others out there in the same place I am, older gamers looking for a premium experience and willing to pay for it. At least enough to keep those premium games coming. But I may be wrong. SE keeps cranking them out and not bending on price so that gives me hope.
Remember that Spy Hunter was an arcade game first. One coin would buy you limited lives once the clock ran out. To keep playing, you would need to keep paying, and your progress would not be saved between sessions.
The NES version of Spy Hunter like owning the arcade game on freeplay. Pay once, play all you like.
Six dollars (the price of Monument Valley plus its expansion) would maybe buy you a couple of hours on an arcade Spy Hunter machine if you were pretty good at it. There was nothing like it on home systems at the time for several years.
There are tons of home games that were expensive to buy but quick to play through. Check out Howlongtobeat dot com for nicely sorted lists and wonder in how good we have it nowadays.
they're not even conscious of what they're complaining about. they're just reacting, like savages would. in a very barbaric (and spoiled-rotten) way, they're reacting to them not being able to have something they want as easily as they could, and because they feel entitled to that thing that they want, they're dumping themselves and spewing nonsense about how skewed the /world/ is for not operating around /their/ ideals. they're animals. not even cool ones either, like tigers. they're just a bunch of dumb, awful lemmings, all verbally throwing themselves off of a cliff's edge in unison.
This is pretty embarrassing. Games have been devalued to sub-snack level in the eyes of the masses.
It's well worth the price, and we should support developers who are this dedicated to the craft. This easily would have been $10-15 on PSN or XBLA - $4 is crazy cheap for something like this.
Pretty sure all those 1 star reviews are from kids.
doesn't change the hit the game's going to take from those negative reviews. algorithms control the top-selling charts based on reviews.
A game should be worth its initial price, and $4 is less than a smoothie, which might even have some really nasty kale in it, or come with an ill-fitting lid.
If Monument Valley were not already worth $4, then some might consider that reason for a 1-star review right from the start (though I'd disagree).
But if it WAS already worth it, then there's no reason any additions have to be free. It's nice when they are, but that's above and beyond: you already got your value. Did the original game get worse because the creators didn't give you a freebie? If so, then shouldn't it be one star even if there were no add-on at all? Because you still didn't get a freebie then.
Saying that new content must be free is often the same thing as saying there should not BE new content. Because it's not free to make.
Indeed the alternative is they don't add anything to the game and move onto another project they can charge $3.99 or more for.
Or release these levels, self contained, as 'Deeper into monument valley'
MV for $4 is like a really good smoothie, and you get to keep the cup!
For $2 more, you can fill it up again with new levels!
The only thing that bothers me is that they appears to have included the expansion content within the app instead of downloading it for people who bought it.
This bothers me because my 16gb iPad is almost always full and I needed to delete stuff to install the update even not needing the update right now. I ended getting the old version from the trash and installing it back.
Anyway, I plan to buy this expansion after I beat the main game, and of course would never one star this great game. :)
Thanks for the article. Rating 5 stars and buying expansion now. People are unbelievable.
Gosh, people are dumb and greedy. How much do you guys pay to watch a movie in the cinema in the US? I bet for a lower price Monument Valley will give you more depth and entertainment than most movies that came out this year.
Agreed with Eli on some points he made in the forums here. Fault from probably both consumer and devs in the App Store, people expect not just patches, but new new new content, for free. This is why premium games don't fare well and why freemiums do. If you want good or great content, creativity, innovation, and a great game you pay a premium price for it. That pays the devs which allow them to continue to create. If you don't want it, don't pay for it. Oh and if your one of those, I didn't know what I was getting for my money, Google something called reviews. Or if you can't be bothered, I understand, just gift me your money instead so I can enjoy the games for you.
I, for one, will now be buying both Monument Valley and its expansion. ^-^
Wow people can be so unreasonable. I've picked up the expansion and rated 5 stars, hopefully the negative people don't hurt the game too much. I want more expansions!
I didn't give it a bad review but I won't upgrade either. It's a 1 hour game. That's the problem as I see it. 2 now with the added levels. 6 dollars for 2 hours send high. But to each their own. Bad reviews for it are ridiculous though.
Find it amazing how petulant and precious some people are over a couple of quid.
It really says something about our society that this news doesn't actually surprise me. It angers me, but it's not catching me off guard. I was actually complaining about something very similar to a friend yesterday in regards to 1 star reviews of a product on amazon based simply around the price while every person that paid that price rated it 4-5 stars.
This case is a little different with a paid game charging a few dollars for an expansion. Have any of those 1-star reviewers ever played the angry birds games where you could buy additional boards at a cost.
People need to be less entitled and understand that Devs need to eat too.
1-Star.
That's my review of those people who are reviewing Monument Valley (and any other game in a similar fashion) with 1-Star.
If there's one thing I've learned in my 48 years of life on this planet, it's that there's a hell of a lot of really shitty, small-minded people out there. Why does a paid expansion for a game warrant a 1 star review?? I mean if you can't afford the dlc, don't buy it! I can't afford a Ferrari. I'd love it if they gave them away for free - therefore Ferrari gets a 1 star review.
The Devs created a cool game. They put in a certain amount of time and they chose a price point for the game that they felt was reasonable for the work they had done. If you bought the game and loved it but wished there was more, I don't see how you could be upset about spending a couple of bucks for a bunch of new levels. If you bought the game and didn't like it, then what does the cost of the new levels matter? You don't want them anyway right?
There's no law that says every game on the app store has to be 99 cents and get 200 new levels added post release. Sure, there are games that have added lots of free content after they came out. But you know what? Most of them have gone freemium now. Many of my faves have done so over the past few months - gone freemium and riddled withs ads. I'd have preferred to have had to pay a buck or 2 for those updates rather than have the games ruined later on...
Just saw the one star reviews in the UK AppStore. Properly embarrassing. First one said 'they want me to pay again' as if they were being asked to purchase the same levels again. The new levels are £1.50 here and are utterly beautiful. The old level 8 on the first set of levels is worth the entrance price alone.
They made a lovely enjoyable game, I liked, I bought. They made another lovely game, I bought.
Hopefully they ignore the muppets and make more nice games, otherwise we wait for them to not make any more and there you go.........wheeeeeeee
They should have put it as a stand alone game Monument valley 2
Then people would have 1-starred the sequel as a greedy cash grab because they should be supporting and expanding the original. It's a no-win situation.
The same people who do this sort of 1-star nonsense probably support LamerGate.
All the add on content for cytus has been paid offerings. Why has this particular game sparked a controversy about paid updates? I played the game when it first came out and couldn't get into it, but I still left it a decent rating. Leaving one star for a paid update is seriously petty.
There are other games that offer free updates but paid updates are nothing new. Strange that the iOS user base is pissed.
I totally agree that $2 is reasonable. The problem is that other games have conditioned people to expect regular content updates for nothing, which is really not sustainable except for the Rovios of the world (and I'm not even sure about them). I also really don't like how one-star reviews have become the catch-all way for people to express their dissatisfaction with an app.
I haven't played the new levels yet (because I am at work) but I can already tell you that a few bucks for a level pack is a steal - i don't care if it is one level, it is worth it.
Comparing this piece of Art to other monetization tr-apps is a mistake. I can only hope the Dev keeps the content coming for a flat rate. Part of whats makes the Monument Valley experience special is that they have taken their own path and made choices that defy the industry trends. I see a flat rate as the direct opposite of greed.
*Crosses fingers and eagerly waits / hopes for the second PAID level expansion*
keep up the good work guys.
amazing game -- thank you!!!
This is not your typical "here's your 50 more free levels" crap. These are painstakingly crafted levels that took a lot of design and coding time.
But then, a typical pea-brained gamer would not realize the amount of effort involved in making these things.
Let me get this right, some stingy kids are whinging because they think all expansions should be free. Even when this expansion is arguably larger than the original title, yet priced at half the cost.
I just don't get how some of these reviewers don't hear the insane words they are writing... "This is amazing! I adore this game! Hours of entertainment... but I just don't think it's worth $3.99".
Really? Hours of entertainment is not worth $4 for you -- presumably you're doing well enough, as you have an iPhone. $5 for a coffee, sure, but not for hours of entertainment.
How depressing! It's not like it's $20 or something. It's $2...
I'd rather pay 2 bucks for some uniquely crafted levels for this game than what some idiots shell out for a couple of lollipop hammers. I'm glad I have a PC to play games on as well, because all the good devs are just gonna tell the app store to eff off and we'll all end up playing candy crush and dungeon master clones.
I paid $8 for a beer at the airport and it took me 10 mins to drink. I didn't complain because I chose to buy it (well, rent it). I can't believe people are playing the "entitlement card" over a $2 expansion and down voting someone's hard earned work.
Worst article ever!!!!!
Not the article itself, thanks Eli for posting it and making the points. All needed to be said.
The fact that people would one star one of the greatest iOS games ever because of a paid expansion, jeez I don't even know what to say to that kind of....... I don't even know what it is,..., cheapskateness, self entitled first world problem, the end of quality iOS premium or just plain ignorance.
And, yeah, this is why we can't have nice things.
Expect developers to look at those reviews and decide to go to steam instead. And who can blame them.
Man, the mentality of people using the App Store is ridiculous and just not worth the effort anymore. No wonder micro transaction games are all I'm seeing being developed lately.
I'd rather pay 2 bucks for some uniquely crafted levels for this game than what some idiots shell out for a couple of lollipop hammers. I'm glad I have a PC to play games on as well, because all the good devs are just gonna tell the app store to eff off and we'll all end up playing candy crush clones.
I bought this expansion while waiting to spend three bucks on coffee. I am an adult with disposal income.
I noticed the debacle in this game's review section on the App Store and decided to post the following review:
It has come to my attention that some truly stupid individuals are giving this game one-star reviews because the developer had the audacity to release a paid expansion back, essentially doubling the amount of content in this excellent game, for $2.00. I'm here to set the record straight. Before you let the one-star reviews left by these mindless Neanderthals stop you from purchasing this phenomenal app, please read this and think for yourself about whether the game sounds right for you. Don't fall victim to the brainless hive mind mentality seen in these reviews.
Monument Valley is a game like no other. It is best described as a puzzle game, though that description may be somewhat of an over-simplification. As the player, you are tasked with helping your character navigate fantastical environments and reach the end of each level. As you progress through the game, things gradually become more difficult, with new puzzle elements being added. In addition, a compelling narrative slowly unfolds as you get further into the game.
From a presentation standpoint, Monument Valley is stunning. Each environment is more beautiful than the last, with excellent music to help set the tone.
Now for the controversial part. The base game is well worth the asking price, and will provide you with quite a bit of fun and more than a few head-scratching puzzles. However (here's where it gets tricky), the developers have also just released an expansion for the low asking price of $2. This expansion essentially doubles the length of the game, and the new levels included in it are just as great as (if not better than) the levels included in the base game.
Some folks are apparently upset that this expansion wasn't included for free, but that's utter nonsense. The asking price of the base game was more than fair considering the amount of content it included, and the developers easily could have released this expansion as a standalone sequel for the same cost as the base game - and I'd still feel it was fair. Instead, though, the developers have generously offered us double the content for half the cost.
In conclusion, if you are looking for a well above average puzzle game with stunning presentation, Monument Valley is well worth your time. If you buy the game and find yourself wanting more after playing through it, you'll be happy to discover that you can double the amount of levels available to you for half the cost of the game. Don't let the rantings of some self-entitled gamers who want everything for free stop you from experiencing a once-in-a-lifetime game.
Everyone has their own opinion, people need to stop acting butt hurt cause others rate it 1 star. Yes, there is other companies that release updates for free and they still make profits. The original game was kinda short to be honest. But it doesn't matter, everyone has their opinion. Get over it and move on.
User reviews should count for something. Bad reviews can hurt the sales of good products.
TA should repost their 5-star review.
Monument Valley is a game that could easily be charged $10.
People give value to wrong things nowadays...
I agree with MonstersUnderBed. I hate dlc, even in monument valley. Yeah there could be a support button or something extra and unnecessary if you spend a $ (like junk jack x), but if you put a price tag on anything, COD, AC Unity, Valiant Heroes, Walking Dead, or Monument Valley, that should be the final price. DLC should be optional, and not for additional levels that should have been included with the game already. And if the developer doesn't get their expected sales, then release a free update to attract newcomers, and encourage the players to spread the word, but not be in their faces saying "log onto facebook for an instant bonus!" The developers should stick to their words with whatever price they have, and stick to it. Hopefully people realize that "but they put so much work into it, please take my money" is just really really dumb. Think about the money the developers already made from their game. Just saying.
And even though its only $2, they are still taking your money for something you already should have been included in he game.
They're not "taking your money." They're selling a product (the expansion, in this case), which consumers can choose whether to pay for or not. If they enjoyed the game and want more, go ahead and get the expansion. If they've had their fill, that's fine too, they can completely ignore the new content - but that shouldn't change the enjoyment they got from the original experience.
The reality is it doesn't matter if they made $50 million+ from the launch of the game - the new content is completely extra, and something that you can choose to buy or not. Just because something is popular or successful doesn't mean the consumer deserves more of it, for free...
You have zero grasp of how games are made. Monument Valley tells a complete story, it is the game the devs wanted to make. They acquiesced to fan demand for more levels and you think they just withheld content that was ready day one. In your ridiculous entitlement you are just telling devs that they'd be better off never making new content for games you love, because it will be viewed with distrust and vitriol unless they give it away for free. The title of this article is spot on. Enjoy the freemium cesspool as people like you drive amazing developers from the AppStore.
Why should the extra levels already have been included in the original game? What kind of logic is that? You get to decide what originally should have been included? That a 3,99 game should have included double the levels right from the beginning?
Yeah, the developers should have included them in for free. I know that I am not a person who comes up with the prices, but isn't it common sense that when you buy something for however much money it is, you get the whole package and not half of what you paid for?
So if they released the levels as a separate app called "Monument Valley: Forgotten Shores" for $1.99, that would have been fine for you? If so, that's odd logic. If not, then why do you feel the developers should work several months for free? This obviously isn't something they banged out in a level editor in two weeks.
I can appreciate the viewpoint "this is not worth $2 to me", because, hey, it's your $2. I have more trouble with "I think this content looks good, but I don't want to pay anything for it", or in the case of one-star reviews, "I want to play this a lot but I don't want to pay anything so your game is crap". Those kinds of statements feel divorced from a healthy perspective, and they're not very respectful of other people's hard work.
Well junk jack x also wasn't made quickly, and neither the updates. Every update has a long list of new features. Are they charging you to play them? No. They get their extra money from little extras and hats that are completely optional. I am just saying that the DLC for another half of the game is kind of lame, they could have made that free and added something like a hat or new clothes for the characters for a dollar or two for you o show your support.
You didn't answer my question, but I think I see where you're coming from. Sure, selling hats and such are another way to bring in regular income while you work on substantial content for free, but I don't think that model fits every game. Selling "hats" in Monument Valley would be like having a guy selling peanuts during a theatre play. I love buying peanuts during a ballgame, but there's a time and place, you know? The entire point of MV is at odds with that sort of transaction.
And to your question, no, it should not be released as a second new game. That would probably result in more raging towards the developers. It should be a free expansion for all owners, then pull off a wayward souls pricing like the person somewhere below me said. That would encourage more people to buy it before it is all jacked up, then have a sale for back at $4. And you could make more money that way rather than adding IAP. Ok now bye to this conversation, this is just mine and many other people's opinions. Thanks for the good arguments, too and I hope you see my point.
It's also, like other comments here and in the app store, coming from people who know nothing about app and game development and even less about the business of making and selling a product.
Well I sure do know that if I were a developer and wanted to appeal to the majority of my fans, I would not want to add DLC for more levels. If I were thinking about making more money, then I would have a sale or add optional IAP's. I am not here to argue, but simply state that if you pay for a game, you should get all the gameplay. Anything extra could be included as optional IAP's. I am just stating that this is what some people that do not like this IAP feel. They feel like they are kind of getting ripped off a little bit, which is sort of true, I pay $4 for a game, I want the whole thing. I am not here to argue, but simply state this is why some people are rating it one star. Should it be that dramatic as to rate it one star because they don't like the update? No. They could simply email the developers that they do not like it, and who knows, the developers could possibly listen. Bye, and I hope you all see this point.
But you did get the whole thing. This is an expansion pack. It's a pretty normal thing in the game industry, and it usually costs a lot more than $2.
How come they should have been included already? The game was complete when released.
Well this all escalated quickly..
Sorry guys, developers deserve intense scrutiny and it doesn't matter if they're indie or not. Have you seen the shady practices out there? Developers make a title for mobile for 1.99 then charge Steam users $10.00 to buy the exact same thing?
Sorry, I can't be arsed to care about a developers non-issues.
How does that apply to *this* developer, who hasn't done that?
Maybe they should have done like Wayward Souls and increase the cost of the game for new buyers but give it to existing custoners for free. But honestly, they shouldn't be hit like this whatever they decided.
Daring Fireball just linked your story. It's about to get some legs...
Good job. I didn't really like the main game, it was a bit too easy, but now I'm going to pick this up and give an actual review.
And because people rate candy crush 5 stars in the face of all king has done and in the face of all the evil game elements the community has spoken out against so constantly.
So weird and also strange
"I'll pay Apple prices for their stuff but $1.99 for a well made game? F that. Now where's my pumpkin spice latte with extra whip?"
I've long had a theory that the people who get really upset at having to pay for a game are the same people who torrent all of their pc games. Can't do that on iOS so the entitled brats rage against normal commerce where we pay for something if we think it's worth and and pass if we don't.
Well guess there you have it. If you want to release additional content you need to slap a "2" after it so people go "omg this sequel is great and even cheaper than the original! 5 stars!" Because people want more icons on their springboard.
I agree with the sentiment that people leaving 1 Star reviews for not getting something free is abhorrent.
That said, I think its questionable to call Monument Valley a game. Its more of an interactive art piece than a real game, as there is very little control you, as the user have over what happens. The puzzles were largely straightforward, in some cases all you did was simply tap from one obvious doorway to the next. Because of that, and the very short length, there isn't any real replayability in Monument Valley either. The art and sound were gorgeous of course, and the story was interesting. But I really don't feel like its fair to call it a "game".
So? Does being an interactive art piece, as you call it, make it somehow without value? Films are completely passive experiences and you pay more for them. It's fine not to have enjoyed it and it's fine to think it was overpriced. Your subjective interpretation of what constitutes a game is irrelevant.
I'm reading reviews right now, and they make me want to jump off a bridge. "I paid a whole $4.00 for this game, why do I have to pay again for a measly 8 levels!? Rip- off scam robbery company akxjfbkjwebfkj!!" End quote.
Blame Freemium games for that hive mind.
People are ridiculous, they don't want to pay for anything nowadays. I just bought the game to support the developers after reading this article.
Free games and free software make you dependent and whiny. If the horrifying threat is a game might cost as much as $5, nobody will actually be hurt.
Bravo and amen.
i think god had the right idea about that flood thing he did back in the day.
To show my support I just purchased the game, and will purchase the extra levels as well.
Pure greed by GAMERS. Only $1.99 and they go back and rate the game 1 star??? I bought the initial game and consider $1.99 a RIP OFF for fir DEVS!!! Only a measly $1.99 for a terrific game extra content. I am more than happy to lay for extra chapters and extra content and so should EVERYONE. I hate Freemium and paying for consumables but extra content is hours extra gameplay for peanuts. I'm absolutely APPALLED.
WHAT! I just paid $2 for this candy bar I ate in 3 minutes, and now you're telling me I HAVE TO PAY for another one?
Monument Valley was the best APP game I'v played in 2014. It is really a depressing news.
"All games would be SOOOO much better if they were freemium, full of timers, energy, and IAPs" said nobody ever.
Should've just issued as a new app and called it Monument valley 2
LETS ALL GO COUNTERACT THIS BULLSHIT WITH POSITIVE 5 STAR REVIEWS
It's these stupid entitled people nowadays who don't want to pay for anything... I remember saving up $70 to buy a cool Playstation 1 game 15 years ago... and I never complained! Now people are pissed because an indie developer who already released a game for $2.99 is asking for another $1.99? Are you $#%@!#$ kidding me?!?
Eli is right. We should pay for more content. This isn't free tea refills with dinner, this is another entree or side dish. Eat; pay.
People are actually posting on the App Store thing along the lines of "I cannot believe I had to pay $2 to get more levels, it should be a free update for more levels if I already paid $4!"
This is the equivalent of saying "I really enjoy Starbucks Coffee when I bought it yesterday, but when I went back for another they wanted to charge me another $4!!! I already spent $4 yesterday... What gives?"
Seriously the disconnect between people and the content the consume is astounding. This is one of the best games on the App Store and seriously $6 is nothing in today's market, barely 1 coffee at Starbucks. The devs aren't greedy, the users are...
Maybe some people feel the cup of coffee was only half full and now Starbucks are asking for another $2 to finish filling the cup.
I hate working for free. I'm going to check this game out, and if it looks good, I'll buy it. I really hate that so many people think that others exist to serve them. $2 is hardly a burden, Christ, people pay twice that for a corporate cup of coffee.
It's good to see support for the developer. 5 star ratings on the App Store for the current version have far eclipsed the whiners!
On canadian store just a few bad review its good
I was gonna comment, but with all the ones above me who'll see it?
Honestly, they would have been better off to come out with a version 2, and charge $3.99 again. As a developer, that's what I would have done. People get stupid when they see IAP. I know I do, and would never buy a paid app that also has IAP. And again, as a developer, I would never make a paid app that also has IAP.
If you want more episodes in Wolf Among Us or any telltale games, you have no choice but buy the episodes in the game just like lego Star Wars the only bad thing is if something goes wrong you have to restore purchase but where the problem? I don't see any...
This article gave me reason to purchase the game and rate it 5 stars.
I submitted my 5 star review, and I will have no problem when the time comes to pay for the expansion. Because I know I will have a good time for a couple of hours. I don't understand why we pay the crazy high prices for coffee and donuts and yet some have issues with $2!? Don't like it? Vote with your wallet don't get it, BTW the new candy crush game looks good and they don't charge for updates ;)
I have the solution everyone... how about we all go back to paying $50 for games/expansions, standing in line on launch days, and having to deal with a massive box that doesn't fit on our shelves. Grow up and pay for the update; people worked hard to create it, and should be paid accordingly.
Unfortunately my iOS device died several months back, so I'm unable to buy this at the moment. But I do have an Android phone, so the second I get paid next week I'll re-buy Monument Valley for $4, then buy the new levels for $2, and I still won't feel gyped because that's how awesome this game is.
I'll be sure to leave my sparkling review in the Android store, too. Because F those 1-stars.
Paid expansions will always result in backlash on the App Store. If you want to charge for new content, it's smarter to just release it as a stand-alone app. It comes down to consumer psychology. An IAP will make players feel like they're being charged twice for something they already paid for, but a separate app demonstrates that the expansion is a new product. You can get mobile gamers comfortable with paid expansions, you just have to market it the right way. Just watch how well XCOM: Enemy Within sells.
This is so wrong. People are willing to pay 5$ or 4€ for Latte, but not for a mobile game? Please, let's not talk about greed here.
Downloading, now. Get a clue people. Not everyone gets to live for free in their parents basement.
I don't get why people complain about free/not free when they more than likely spent $200 on candy crush or something to that likening
I voted with my wallet. Loving the new maps :)
But then again I like when I understand what I get for my money. F2P is shady. This game definitely worth the price!
I once walked into a candy store and bought some candy. It was delicious. I wanted more, but the owner would not give me some for free. So angry.
WTF! Is wrong with some people. Quality cost money. Cant complain about all those candy crush, and Flappy bird clones if every game in the App Store should be free. I'd happily pay for the expansion, so the developers can make more beautiful games. WTF.
People are idiots! They can afford to buy an iPhone or android phone but won't spend 2 dollars for DLC. This is why studios are doing this F2P shit because of the people wanting everything free. If u can't afford it then why did u buy a fuckin iPhone that literally needs money to work.
It's the Android effect. Deadbeats who are used to getting everything for free if they surrender their privacy to Google whine incessantly about having to pay for anything. Just ignore them. They don't actually buy anything anyway.
Controversy.
You're telling me that the games are not done by teen in their garage that doesn't have to worry about nothing because they still live with their parents? Oh, come on!
Honestly they made a mistake by trying to be nice and releasing this as an update. They should have just released it as Monument Valley 2 and hardly anyone would have complained (The idiots that rated this one star would have been clueless). Its really too bad this is why apps dont get big updates and why freemium rules...
They probably spent the same amount of time developing the new chapter, but they charged less than half the entry fee. I would have paid full price for the 90 minutes I got out of this extension. Anyone too cheap to pay a developer on their $400+ tablet is a dickhead.
expansions reputation have been down the sink lately due to big companies milking the costumer with a scamish expansion techniques, games now gets chopped of to pieces and sold separately for sake of extra bucks:
- CoD hides a new game mode that is available inside the CD you buy only to be granted access when the "expansion" arrives 2 months later....
- Destiny just chopped of big chunk of the story and you have to pay "more" to see the rest.
- Rome 2 have a fee for enabling the "show blood graphics".
now this game seems very cool, and i will take your words for they had all the right to put a fee on their extra effort.
but who will stop other giants who abuse the consumers??
Maybe I'm not a big fan of the types of games that generally get great reviews here (Monument Valley is one of the exceptions) I admire Touch Arcade because they always stand up for the developers of the good games (the ones that aren't designed to rip off the players).
This is an amazing game and paying some bucks for an update with new levels is perfectly fine because developing such a great game costs a LOT! To be honest: I don't get all this 'race to the bottom' nonsense when it comes to paid apps. People are willing to spend their money at starbucks but when it comes to great paid apps they go nuts. Stupid!
I really really wished that Apple would make the minimun price of any app or game on the App Store at least 2 bucks just to punish the cheap skates who don't want to pay. And if you can't afford to pay 2 bucks (talking about developed countries here) you are a pathetic loser, or your father is if he can't afford to give you 2 bucks for a game.
Your right it's an embarrassment. Game was worth twice the 4 bucks I paid for it. I played it through and it was fantastic. I for one and more then happy to pay for a content update in any kinda game. Especially in a game this one that was utterly phenomenal! Any of the people who hit on star ok that review are counted as losers to me. No wonder devs eek out what they can.... Good job Eli you tell the bitches quit whining and pay the devs!
The problem isn't free vs. paid upgrades. The problem is the broken App Store reviews system that allows this sort of bad behavior to persist.
while beautiful you could finish a $3.99 game in ten minutes, and adding five more minutes to this game for half the price seems quite pricey... if the game had more levels from the start maybe this expansion could have received better reviews
Game publishers just want money.
Yes the game is great well design but too damm short for the price in the first place then they release an short expansion for a fee? I believe there is going to be more SHORT expansions for a fee of course.
I finish the game in half of a day thats why is short beautifull but to damn short...
Thank God these people complaining about paid updates aren't employers. They'd expect to pay you for the initial project and then have you work for free after that.
First off I think Monument Valley is a great game and ustwo are within their rights to charge whatever they like for updates. However I don't think it's entirely fair to characterise customers complaining as being entitled.
The convention on iOS, as it should be on all platforms, is not for players to pay proportionally to the costs incurred by the developer. There are (profitable) games on the store that represent 10x or 100x more person years of development work than Monument Valley, and many of them are the same price or even free.
The reason that virtually all iOS premium game developers of the last five years have offered free updates is that updating a game in a significant way benefits them through a new wave of press coverage, featuring, chart visibility and user activity/reviews.
I think ustwo have been unfortunate in that their update falls between two stools - making new content for MV is too labour intensive (and large in file size) to dripfeed it out regularly, and Forgotten Shores is not quite big and self-contained enough to be a standalone sequel. As a result the $1.99 IAP is anomalous and hard to compare to something accepted elsewhere.
Monument Valley was a huge success, and has received as much free marketing from Apple (and Google) as it's possible to get. It has proven (along with The Room, Threes, Monster Hunter, XCOM, etc. etc.) that premium games on iOS are a sustainable model. Nobody is holding a gun to ustwo's head and making them release DLC.
I find it ironic that we're arguing in favour of a model that has been exploited mercilessly and to the detriment of customers and game design on console and PC.
"Seeing a game as awesome as Monument Valley as a one star game on iTunes is seriously one of the saddest things I've seen lately."
Then you should get out more.
A few years ago, the buzz was that consoles etc will become obsolete because tablets will take over. Devs started making games for the iOS (and porting old titles over) Since that time, games have become rarer and rarer on the app store and devs have moved away.
The sole reason is due to the consumer base (full of f---ing skinflint retards) The games are now designed around a specific model to accommodate the piss-ants.
Case in point. The Banner Saga did not do well, and wasn't even promoted by Apple on the Australian or Japanese stores (dont know about other markets) However Fish Frenzy Mania was, and things like Bitcoin Billionaire are a runaway success. That's right, the ass-wipes would rather play Bitcoin Billionaire (mindless clicking) rather than something with depth or thought.
Praise be to those few devs who still support the iOS or take a dip in the pond. I no longer have a computer, but I still like to play a few games that I can't get on console (Baldurs Gate etc)
I wish this developer success. The game isn't my thing, but I know it's a quality title.
And to everyone defending this 1-star stuff, go to hell. Meanwhile, don't forget to pay for your energy refills etc in your crap game
Guys whether you own this game or not, I think we should give these guys as many 5 star reviews as possible. I'm not really into these types of games, but i know quality when I see it and 6 bucks is chump change for it. Even a simple 'this game is awesome' review would help turn around negative feedback.
The App Store won't let you leave a review for an app you don't own.
yea I realized that after I said it. I was hoping no one would notice my stupid mistake, but alas this is the internet :)
Sorry
You can't just point the finger at the self entitled masses for ruining mobile gaming. The industry shares just as much blame for pandering to those cheapskates with disposable freemium games, encouraging that attitude of cheapness and entitlement. If anything the industry is MORE to blame than casual mobile gamers. Getting mad at comsumers is like blaming the dog isntead of the trainer.
The mobile gaming industry is far from ruined. There are cheap games, expensive games, free games, freemium games and paymium games. The only real villains here are the paymium ones masquerading as premium games.
People who get cheap games and publishers who make them are all just reacting to the market. It's all good.
Good things cost money. Monument Valley is well worth the money. Anyone who is so cheap they won't spend *six dollars* for a great game, maybe just piss off.
To join the "to be fair" camp, I expected the update to be paid and was eager to pay for it—Monument Valley is completely worth it. However my iPod Touch 5 didn't show the upgrade price and tapping to buy opened up a never-ending hexagonal spinner. I couldn't find a support link either; the one on the app store just leads to their corporate site. So it was a bad experience and tempted me to give them a bad review (I didn't).
Luckily I own another, newer iPad and for whatever reason it showed the price and allowed me to make the purchase. And that purchase then transferred successfully to my iPod Touch.
The bottom line is, at least for me and perhaps for others, there may be a reason other than sticker shock for low reviews.
I bet if they would have released it as Monument Valley 2 they would've been just fine.
Not to worry. Generation Freemium will learn the hard way when they go out in the market place how awesome it is to work for free.
For the folks banging on the $4-$6 for "only" an hour of gameplay drum: see how long it takes you to spend that much money in an arcade. The mechanic to suck money out of your pockets is part of video game history. And an indie developer offering a set of levels for a nominal charge should be applauded for not going the Candy Crush or FarmVille route of micro transactions. It makes sense for the gameplay mechanic and "chapters" that they're trying to build for their story.
Im not a developer, but I recognize that these guys have families, mortgages, bills. So, its only fair and right in my opinion that they charged for this.
The only issue is, the original game was really, really, short. Normally I'm happy to pay for updates to good games, but I really felt like they owed me a few extra levels for what I paid originally. Not an excuse to trash the ratings, but still.
2 dollars is no unreasonable price for the smile it put on my daughters face. And anyone who complains about it, obviously doesn't see the value. I do everyday. Thats good enough for me.
All this fuzz for $1.99! Don't drink your Venti, no foam, extra super skim organic milk, 2 extra shots of non caffeinated expresso, two shots of unsweetened syrup for a day and you can afford the upgrade
I'm grateful for these particular haters. If they hadn't made such a fuss about absolutely nothing, I would never have heard about this great game. I bought it (with expansion pack) for six lousy bucks and am hoping the devs get tremendous success so they create more great games which I'll happily spend my money on.
I think the problem is, that they didn't clarify this upfront, and some of the communication from the devs might have reinforced this idea, that there will be a free update with new levels. I don't mind that it's a DLC, I'm not buying it though. It is a beautiful game, but it's a bit of a one trick pony, IMO.
Okay, now I'm on my way to the app store and give a 5 star review.
And karma will get things right in the end. Ustwo made something incredible, so they deserve our support and money.
Video games are a luxury item. I have zero respect for people who throw tantrums about not getting them for free.
If they had released it as "Monument Valley 2" with the same price, people would just happily pay it without batting an eye. Kinda ridiculous! This is what "free" games has done to us.
Boo hoo, people are using the app store review function and you just don't like it. Suck it up and be a man, take your 1 star.
So sick of mobile champions shitting on Steam out one side of their mouth.
Monument Valley is a terrible, pretentious game.
What do you expect from a community that actually enjoys Candy Crush.
Mobile gaming isnt fucked because of bad reviews, its fucked because you like shitty games.
FailFish
I don't agree with your comment, but it was hilarious and enjoyable to read lol :)
I've always been used to paying for games outright and would much prefer to do this than pay in bits and pieces. Especially considering the low prices these games sell for.
Wow, a lot of comments. They kinda tricked everyone by saying that new levels were on the way. People (including me) assumed that they would be free. Also, when most people buy a game, they expect at least a few updates without a price tag. The majority of developers update their games for free. Ustwo could've at least given us a few levels for free, and then charged for the rest. So yes, ustwo didn't owe us anything, but they certainly could've been more generous.
"People (including me) assumed..." ... assumed. There you have it.
Assuming isn't that bad. We only assume that the sun will rise the next morning and that we won't all start floating up into the air.
I also feel that people don't appreciate how much work goes into making games. The developers don't just wave a magic wand and POOF, new levels appear. It takes time and effort. I can guarantee that if these complainers had to experience the process of making games, they would be a lot more understanding. However, I still believe that, as a "thank you" to the customers, part of the update should've been free.
I just looked through the version history, and it's very deceiving. The way they state it almost implies that the levels will be free. Clearly, ustwo needs to communicate better with their fans. After reading that, I have to side with the customers here.
Which customers? By the looks of it, most of the customers are fine with them charging for the levels. I mean, we're all customers here, even me.
Most people on here were fine with it. But out in the non-TA world, there were many angry customers. It was a little deceiving that they kept mentioning the new levels coming, with no indication that they would cost money. As a result, many people who are used to free updates (ya know, for Angry Birds, Minecraft, basically every popular game) naturally expected this to be free as well. If ustwo had said "we will be adding new levels available for purchase" or something along those lines, this whole fiasco wouldn't have happened.......... (By the way, sorry for the late replies. I was on a cruise over the few days.)
Go look at the App Store reviews now. Or check its position in the charts. I'd say that most customers in general are fine with the expansion, not just TA.
But there were a lot more negative reviews and people weren't fine with it yesterday, right? Isn't that why this article was written? But now, somehow, the reviews are glowingly positive. To be honest, I'm still a little confused about how the reviews could've been so negative yesterday, yet they're so positive today. -----Anyway, this article (and every news outlet) says that many customers were angry, so I was trying to explain why these customers might've felt this way.
this article is a bit naive. 99% of iOS and Gplay revenues come from free to play games. that's a $15B/year market, do you think a lot of people make an honest wage building freemium games ?? Clinging to a model that is dying and then hating the world because they moved on its not very smart. I'm sure some people still buy music DVD's, but most of us listen to music on our ipod or stream it(and its a much better user experience and musicians make more money than ever). World is always changing, you either adapt or you die. You experiment with Premium updates in a world of free games, free music and free content, people will hate on you. Trust me, i've built both Free and paid games and my company made a hell of a lot more money on premium and had 10x more happy customers. Freemium is not the the big bad wolf that eats children, it's the business model of the future that is better for both user and developer, wake up to the real world.
After seeing this I just downloaded the app and bought the expansion. This game deserves the $ for sure. For new content I have no issues with paying for IAP unless it was said to be free from the start. It is micro-transactions that I refuse to buy.
Free update is out of courtesy and a commercial decision. I never thought of asking for either of these in this game because with the quality it holds, they deserve to get paid. Most of all, come on guys, you can't even get a cup of Starbucks with the cost they are asking for, stop being a cheapskate.
That is what you get for giving your kids medals for tenth place for the last 15 years. A bunch of entitled spoiled brats who can now vote on Apps and will do so with the same level of entitlement.
All this complaining yet you still spent $5 on a pumpkin spice latte every day this October.
THANK YOU for this article. I wasn't aware of the update, and have just purchased it from these hard-working and talented devs. (And have left a 5 star review on it in the App Store.)
I don't have played the game yet, but it looks interesting and I'm gonna buy it.
However I can't believe that people are upset because the expansion was paid, really.
I mean... it would be far cheaper than the 99% F2P out there.
Let's see how long it takes before the App Store will be freed from the free to play model...
They should have rated this 1 star after they bought the original to send a message to devs - It's not ok to charge a premium price and then include barely any content
Meanwhile i see lots of poster here on TA stating they've bought the expansion or the original game and rated it 5 stars just because of this article. Do these people realize that that's even worse? At least the 1 star raters have a reason to do so, you're just rating a game based on what a blogger says
Also, i'd like full disclosure here because i have a sneaking suspicion that Eli knows the devs personally. Is that the case?
Eli knows lots of people. What are you driving at? Some kind of jab about "ethics in journalism?"
Lets make a list of things we should boycott for charging a "premium price" that are consumed all too quickly:
- hamburger
- triple latte
- bottle of beer
- slice of pizza
- going to a movie
- taxi ride
- deli sandwich
- carnival ride
did I miss anything? no sweat, just add your own.
Oh yea, the fallacious it's no more than a cup of coffee
If i bought a cup of coffee and it was only a quarter full and cold i'd complain then too
if you want to use a term like fallacious, maybe you should look up entitlement too.
Are you entitled to X number of hours in a game you bought? There is a reason people support this game, and its not because its a quarter full and cold.
I never bought it my friend because i don't support pretentious story games with no content. How is that entitlement?
Like I said, you can look it up if you don't understand how making judgmental statements like "no content" and "premium price" is entitlement.
You tell me how $4 is premium and saying the game has NO CONTENT is a fair way to judge a game that is critically and commercially loved. If you think you deserve more content(saying the game has none) or deserve to pay less($4 is PREMIUM LOL), then thats entitlement.
Ah ok, so you're in charge of defining entitlement? Sorry, i didn't get the memo
Who gives a shit about a bunch of bloggers loving the game? If you believe any such review isn't extremely biased then i have bad news for you. Go google gamejournopro list and go from there
4$ dollars for a game with one hour of content is a ripoff compared to what else i could get for 4$ on the appstore. That's a fact
So a game with more content, regardless of quality, is a better value than a game with less.
I'm fine with being in charge of defining entitlement, because you just defined fallacious
I'm just going by your logic. Any complaints about it being fallacious...well you know where to direct them
Also, a game with one hour of content regardless of quality is not ok
Here's a review we received for one of our apps today. I tried to explain via email before receiving this review that we have no power to charge people more than the price of the app, this is all controlled by Apple.
The sad thing is, there's probably a load of people out there that would have happily paid $3, $4, $5 for this update, but the makers thought "hey, let's make it nice and low priced, then everyone is happy".
This only contributes to people further saying "let's not bother to develop for iOS, nobody wants to pay for apps". Best advice: Ignore the bad reviews, focus on making the best app possible for those people that are happy to pay.
Perhaps it was better to launch as a second game. A lot of other developers do this without screaming customers.
For this case, I think they better relauch a game.
Monument Valley is great. Really great and as a first game from this developper, hype is very high.
But, when you play it, you finish it... you pay (2.59€ for me or something like that) you find a great game but a very short game.
I want to play more this kind of games, but not play an addon of this game for the same price.
I pay every extention of Galaxy On Fire 2 because I know that the stuff are different, and I will play it for hours.
Will I pay 2$ for a new amazing game ? yes.
Will I pay 2$ for an upgrade I 'll finish in an hour ? no.
> made by real artists, working in a real studio, getting paid real salaries, with real families
No love for developers?
ಠ_ಠ
This post made me go in to the App Store and rate it 5 stars. Brilliant game!
As a developer that's trying to support premium myself, it's great to see the community backlash to this mud slinging/negative behaviour. The great thing about premium gaming is that you can vote with your wallet if you feel so strongly - no need to try to sabotage a game you may have previous enjoyed's score.
Good to see this one getting the 5 stars is deserved!
I absolutely loved Monument Valley and the new expansion, and was happy to pay the asking price.
For those of you bitching and moaning about 'greedy devs': f*ck you. F*ck you and your self-entitled 'I don't want to pay a fair price for my entertainment and I don't care if the devs earn a living waaa waaa waaa!' shitty attitude. With a sharp stick, turned sideways.
This wouldn't be a problem if Monument Valley was longer. "Quality over
quantity" isn't an issue when a decent quantity has an excellent
quality.
I bought MV knowing that it had only 10 levels but it took me a bit
more than 30 minutes to win a game that, while really pretty to look at,
didn't have much substance, nor challenge, nor replay value.
Hitman Go cost me almost the same and had me hooked for weeks trying to get the three marks for each level.
Oh man lol. I feel your pain Monument Valley. 99.9% of my bad reviews are people complaining about being scammed and having to pay (a whole $2.99 mind you). I think it's mostly the younger generation who grew up stealing every bit of movies, music, and software off of Bit Torrent. Maybe when those folks get older and get jobs, they'll be nice and offer their services for free, so as not to be scamming their bosses or customers.