Why you don't want to make an universal app

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by drPedro, Sep 20, 2010.

  1. mr.Ugly

    mr.Ugly Well-Known Member

    Dec 1, 2009
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    there is "no" right way for everyone.

    if you start an iphone project right now you create assets to fit retina and scale down for older devices.
    thats if you start it now.

    my very first own iphone game was released 2009, when i stated designing the assets.. i actualy started with a 1152*1152 canvas and a 960*640 border.

    the plan was to work in higher resolution and scale the art then down.. at that time there was no speak whatsoever about retina, ipad etc.

    so the goal was 320*480 resolution..

    well as the project progressed and ai craped 3-4 different design ideas it was just too time consuming doing all the work in double resolution+ so i switched to a smaller canvas and did work faster.

    the game was released and had like 6-7mb...

    now the ipad came.. it was announced and i actualy hoped for a "retina" resolutions because that would make life easier to port it over since i had roughtly 30% of the art avaiable in that resolution.

    nahh the worst thing happend.. different resolution with different aspect ration.. that was crap.. my usable canvas on the art was 640*960
    that was crap.. so what was the option.. the rest of the art needed a revamp anyway so i investend alot of time getting things done.. i created new gfx elements for the higher resolutions etc. changed the design slightly.. made it a variation of the iphone game.

    biggest problem was.. there was no ipad released yet.. the only thing we had was the simulator at that time.. like most all developers expect thoose few high profile ones who got early units from apple.. so we trusted in apple with that developed the game and but it for approval.. it got approved and was shortly avaiable after the launch of the ipad..

    it sold like crap..thats was ok.. was was bad where the reviews, because the app crashed on the device..craptastic..
    now we put out a product which crashes.. not so good.. what was even worse is that the ipad was only released in the us.. and had a preoder waiting list like forever.. when it was released in europe we got one device as fast as we could.. which is crap again because for apple a developer is just another customer.. you have to wait as long as any other guy to buy an ipad..

    so we got one and yes it crahsed.. no wonder.. the ipad is a lousy joke.. the 3gs hat a 320*480 screen and 256mb of ram.. the ipad has a 1024*768 screen and the SAME! amount of ****ing ram... sure it crashed.. the game had to much gfx which needed more ran apparently than there is on the device (the ram avaiable for apps is not the full ram the device has anyway)

    so crap.. we worked on the update, change stuff here and there to cut down memory usage.

    anyway.. up today we spend alot of work, time, money and sweat into the ipad version.. just to support it.. till now we have 3 digits sales of that version.. and i surely couldn't care less about it nowerdays..

    customers asked when we would update with new gamemodes etc.. i told them plainly we won't do any updates on it.. since it doesnt make any money.. it is as it is..

    now then came the iphone4.. great.. just another resolution.. with the old aspect ratio.. crap again..

    now i had a mix of old 960*640,320-480 assets and the assets in 1024*768
    but they did not fit together because the aspect ration is different and the ipad version has a different viewpoint/cutout

    so what now?.. well actualy nothing.. we opted out on an iphone4 version till we actualy got a device ourselfs.. we don't wanted to make the same mistake as with the ipad version.. relying on apples approval team to actualy do their job.

    since the iphone4 was a huge success whe where able to get one like 2-3 months after the relese.. and then the ipod touch was announced.. which made us wait again.. just to be sure..

    now i redid most of the old gfx and upped it to the new resolution.. took what i could from the ipad version and released an the retina version.. tested on ipodtouch and iphone4.. it works i havent encounter any special crashes or other problems.. but it was a horrible ride.

    and this for a product that is not selling well.. for a product no one really cares but us..

    if i would not make a living developing ios apps for others i would not have the chance to make any of thoose versions but the cost of the hardware is more than we ever will make with this game.

    but thats ok. develpoing games is next to my job also one of my passions.. so the wasted time is part of that.. as long as the ride was fun who cares about the grey hair you get :)

    from now on all games i privatly work on will carry this badge in the credits

    [​IMG]

    and i will stay away from ipad version, if the iphone ones don't sell..

    the ipad market is too small to really make a difference at the time..

    this will change one day.. well it might..


    but till then i personaly would not suggest to make universal builds for alot of reasons

    - visbility
    - file size
    - pricing flexibility
    - investment/outcome ratio
    etc, etc,

    at the end my gf doesnt even see the differenct between retina and non retina.. sometimes you can say"hey look its shaper watch there".. but she is what we all would call "casual gamer" and they barely care about how sharp the edges of the art is.. they just want to have some fun.
     
  2. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Well-Known Member
    Patreon Bronze

    May 19, 2010
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    I don't think that's true for all types of games. It's true for some types of games. There are games where the extra cost of development is much less, and the marginal benefit from playing them on a larger device is much greater.
     
  3. Pacificsun0481

    Pacificsun0481 Well-Known Member

    Jul 10, 2010
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    #123 Pacificsun0481, Nov 27, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2010
    Here is my idea for developers, with limited resources. Remember, This is just an idea...

    If said iPad game version costs 4.99 and said iPhone version costs 1.99, the iPad version for the cost, should include "HD" visuals. It costs more.

    However, your game could release on the iPhone, at that price listed above. Without retina support. To make up some monetary difference, you could offer retina support as a .99 cent "in app purchase."

    You would then make money, for the work invested on that resolution. Sure, some people wouldn't purchase the retina resolution, then again, but just as many might.

    Relate it to an iPad owner, whom owns game A for iPhone and pixel doubles for iPad. Yet, they may often double dip and buy the iPad version anyway.

    Why give iPhone/iPod touch 4 owners something for nothing? They're paying less anyway (or making needless demands), recoup some money for your extra work. Offer retina support as an IAP, if they want or demand the resolution, offer it as an upgrade and I'm sure they'll buy it.

    You may make more money that way.

    Consider these things:

    iPad owners already pay more, for the extra work.

    In relation to iPhone/iPod touch 4, just because the screen runs the resolution doesn't mean they should get that at less or no cost.

    Consider HDTV. There are millions of HDTV owners. Yet, they have to pay extra for hd service on the HDTV screen. It's not free. They need to buy component or hdmi cables, service, blu ray, etc....Just because the tv runs hd, doesn't mean the tv gets the hd standard. Why not charge iOS 4 retina owners a little extra, for the better resolution - so long as it fits their device?
     
  4. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Well-Known Member
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    May 19, 2010
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    If the iPad version costs $4.99 and sells X copies, and the iPhone version costs $1.99 and sells 10X copies, then the appropriate development budget for the iPad version is actually less than the budget for the iPad version, not more, because it generates less revenue.
     
  5. mr.Ugly

    mr.Ugly Well-Known Member

    Dec 1, 2009
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    well yes and no.. sure there are always exceptions .. its a case by case situation..

    and it depends on what you want to offer on the "big screen".. now every game becomes better by just blowing it up..

    and if you plan ahead you can minimize cost, indeed.. my story was a story that took place over the last 1 1/2 years.. and is just an example of how things can turn out..

    my last private game which was approved by apple last week (not released yet) for example is a game which uses the multitouch capacities of the devices.. now there is a big difference between the iphone and the ipad there. the ipad can recognize the double amount of touch events.

    so the question was are we going to use the retina version modifiy it slightly and make an ipad version? ... no .. i decided against it, because i think if i do a "port" for the ipad.. it should use its full capacity of screen real estate and touch screen capabilities.

    so if the sales are solid for the iphone game i will make an ipad version which will be not the same game but an experience optimized for the ipad.

    and this will be purely based on the iphone sales, because i don't expect much from the ipad currently..

    i actualy would love to make some really "core" ipad games.. there are tons of game design ideas that would work so much better on the ipad than the iphone.. problem is.. they would not sell.. so they are at the bottom of the "idea pile" ...

    well lets see how this holiday seasons ends.. who knows.. the ipad could outsell the ipod touch and double triple its installbase and make it a more interesting target to develope for.



    @Pacificsun0481

    it just doesnt work that way.. retina resolution is the new standard. the shift started and by the end of next year barley anyone will be interested anymore in the sd devices because they will not be purchaseable anymore.

    the problem is you want.. and because you want one should care.. but no one cares because the market shows that you can earn more.. why should you not..

    and you don't make more money on "selling" retina support.. why should you? its build into youre device..

    would you pay for iap in an app to rotate to all 4 orientations on the ipad?

    would you pay for an iap in an app to recognize more than 5 touch events on the ipad?

    no you would not because thats just nonsense

    all you rotate around is the resolution of the device.. and thats your missconception.. if i have retina assets i DO NOT! have ipad assets..

    you are actual missing nearly 30!!! % of content.. where does that come from? it needs to be made. the move from SD to retina is actualy alot cheaper todo than the move from retina to SD.

    its not the same screen size, its not the same aspect ration and most of the games cannot simple blown up without actualy loosing something.. so you need to rework if you want to optimize for the ipad and that IS additional work.

    if you work for retina the only difference is scaling down the art.. anything else is the same.. thats not valid for most ipad games.
     

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