Why mobile gaming matters?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Lounge' started by Artwark, Nov 20, 2015.

  1. Artwark

    Artwark Member

    Nov 17, 2015
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    Ok I just about had it with mobile gaming. I'm negative about it a lot and I fear for the worst of the gaming industry.

    To those of you who love mobile gaming, good for you. You certainly love mobiles a lot more than other gamers who would prefer either PC or console gaming. But to us that want PC and Console gaming (including dedicated handheld game consoles like DS) we fear that this mobile gaming is going to push away the console market forcing us to use virtual d pads, touch screens, gyro functions and the ridiculous microtransactions that even AAA games are starting to implement (Want proof? Check out Halo 5 and Tomb Raider!)

    Nintendo is now being forced to push their products to mobile. Nearly every developer is now motivated to move over mobile. And you might say that that's the trend but the problem is that majority of the times, mobile gaming just fails for good reasons and when it does make profit, its done for wrong reasons.

    I've gotten Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy Tactics on Android and while Tactics is tolerable to play on the phone, the former isn't because it requires internet to play it. I call that BS! And even Tactics suffers from the interface menus being clogged and sometimes unnecessarily not to mention the occasional crashing.

    And fine, you want to defend mobile gaming, fine because I'm confident that you can find and send me millions of games that are worth checking out. But this bring out another issue as the competition in mobile is far worse than consoles.

    To make your game on mobile great, you like need to figure out how to compete with other million users! In consoles, no problem. Just announce your game in E3, develop hype by constantly revealing more game footage and you're done. Now if this really does happen in mobile and that if many seem to be easily aware of it, then why do these developers fall faster than the others? Can you honestly say that Activision Blizzard did a smart move buying King for 5.9 Billion Dollars?

    So.....that's all I have to rant about and obviously, this is going to anger some users here who adore mobile. But just know that unless Mobile can be better than it is now and unless its possible for us dedicated gamers to play the games on mobile and like them, I don't want to see the console market crash because of this.
     
  2. september

    september Well-Known Member

    Sep 14, 2012
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    I won't blame mobile but rather opportunistic developers for the microtransactions in premium games, there's no need to survive there, it is opportunistic and a test by companies to see how far they can push it. And to be honest developers like EA and Ubisoft have handled it really badly, even the smaller developers of Pay Day 2 and Trials Fusion haven't handled it particularly well either and have been just as bad, if not worse. Hopefully it will pan out and the "cake and eat it too" developers will realise, free game = fine, full price game consumables and currencies = bad idea as far as brand loyalty goes. But that is really dependant on how gamers react with their wallets.
     
  3. crunc

    crunc Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2008
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    Just a correction. I'm pretty sure you mean Trials Frontier, not Trials Fusion. Trials Fusion is a console game and doesn't have any micro transactions.
     
  4. september

    september Well-Known Member

    Sep 14, 2012
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    You no doubt mean well but I did mean Fusion, they added a virtual currency that can either be bought or earnt very, very slowly if you place well in weekend events. I have no problem with Frontier as it is intended to be a F2 P game.
     
  5. pluto6

    pluto6 Well-Known Member

    Jun 21, 2009
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    So I am probably going to sound boorish - but the only certain thing you can count on is change. The world will never be a static place, and money drives much of what happens in our world. Dont blame the developers, blame all the millions of people who buy and support mobile gaming.

    The console developers look at mobile gaming and realize this is a train I either get on, or get run over by. The pursuit of a livlihood, profit, whatever you want to call it is not a right or wrong, it just is. People want to achieve and they open new avenues to do this. Some companies will do this better or worse, but the marketplace will largely decide the winners and losers (I am purposefully steering clear of politics, business practices, etc just to keep the water a bit clearer). If a game say Call of Duty has tons of microtransactions and people purchase them, the company has no reason to believe its not a good model. Some users (me) will cry foul and believe i should get a complete game, but the game developers are interested in making money, making good games (which leads to making money) and havng brand recognition and loyalty (also leading to making money). So while it is not making money as the sole goal, the most important for anyone who is not Bill Gates is making a living for themselves.

    Mobile has picked up huge market shares and big companies that could afford to ignore it, cant anymore. Its an infant industry, so we will see what shakes out in the next 5-10 years.
     
  6. squarezero

    squarezero Moderator
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    Dec 10, 2008
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    Sigh...

    Let me cut to the chase here: mobile is not something that needs to be "defended." Mobile simply is. Some people hate playing games on their phones; for others, it's their primary gaming platform. The same can be said about every other platform. Members of the "PC Master Race" hate consoles and blame them for dumbing down gaming and stifling technical innovation. Sony and Microsoft gamers look down on the "Nintendo sheep" as casuals who keep buying the same games over and over again, while Nintendo gamers go on and on about "polish," and "gameplay." And, until mobile came out, they all look down at handheld gaming as "kid stuff."

    All that animosity is utterly pointless. Whatever changes are happening to your favorite platform have little or nothing to do with what's happening on a different platform. Console games are not getting microtransactions because of mobile: the fact is, game development is getting more and more expensive, and it's tough to make a profit with just the initial sale. Casual gaming is on the rise because the great majority of people who play games do so casually. To expect otherwise would be as foolish as expecting that the majority of movie goers to be cineastes.

    Look, you are welcome to be a part of this community, but keep in mind that we pretty much all share an appreciation for mobile gaming. For some of us, it's all about convenience (and let me say, anybody who thinks that convenience shouldn't matter in gaming doesn't have a real job and/or kids). For others it's value. For other it's the element of surprise and discovery. Whatever the reason, we've found a home here, and, quite frankly, we don't give a crap what you think of mobile gaming as a whole -- though we're curious to hear what you have to say about specific games.

    In other words, we've got nothing to prove to you. But you are welcome to hang out, play, and talk.
     
  7. klink

    klink 👮 Spam Police 🚓

    Jul 22, 2013
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    I could care less about platforms. I'm in for the games regardless of the platform. If the game is on a mobile device great I can play it anywhere. If the game looks great on a big screen and requires precise controls then a console is in order. Needs a keyboard and mouse select a PC. Feel free to mix and match to whatever floats your boat. There's never been a better time to be a gamer so transcend this useless platform war and have fun.
     
  8. Artwark

    Artwark Member

    Nov 17, 2015
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    Here's the problem. People will gladly buy a game if its worth the time and money. today's gaming budget is no different than the 90's budget (Remember Shenmue?) If the developer wants more money, the answer is simple. Just make the game so that its worth to purchase and people will gladly buy it no matter the cost.
     
  9. CoreyFox

    CoreyFox Well-Known Member

    Jul 4, 2015
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    #9 CoreyFox, Nov 21, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2015
    I certainly 'care' about the platform. I began my gaming career on mobile/tablets, and have not played a console in over 30 years. I would expect there are many ppl like me floating around out here.. Not to mention children of this current era will grow into this technology and know it as being the most recognized and most readily available platform.
     
  10. Shaun Musgrave

    Shaun Musgrave Well-Known Member

    Jul 8, 2013
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    In 2000, Shenmue's budget was a ridiculous outlier, even among AAA-tier releases. In 2015, Shenmue's budget is pretty much the minimum buy-in for a AAA game. It's a fact that game budgets have exploded, and, unfortunately, neither the retail price nor the size of the audience have grown in step. That is why console games are resorting to micro transactions (which were a thing well before mobile). That is why Nintendo is looking to broaden their portfolio. The traditional model was always doomed. It was just a matter of when. Micro transactions, silly special editions, day-one DLC, and so on are just the traditional industry sticking their knees out in hopes of slowing their descent. Mobile isn't the cause of that. If anything, it's just an example that their desperation plans might work.
     
  11. september

    september Well-Known Member

    Sep 14, 2012
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    I would query there's a descent, mobile has a broader audience with potential for greater numbers and less development cost, but I don't think traditional platforms are in any danger of extinction either. These days 3rd party engines are freely available and cheaper to develop for than the years companies used to spend developing their own tech. Season Passes, DLC and Special Editions aren't all that new and were around before mobile took off, the problem for some is microtransactions or virtual currencies in full priced games, fairly frequently being introduced post release. It's more human nature and opportunity in my opinion, a model has taken off (which to be fair has been around for eons) due to broader acceptance on mobile and it has shown it can be another means of practical revenue. It's understandable some will try it on with more expensive titles, but not an end of days last plug scenario in the hopes of survival.
     
  12. Shaun Musgrave

    Shaun Musgrave Well-Known Member

    Jul 8, 2013
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    I'm not sure what to tell you. I've been working in the games media for almost 20 years. The budgets have gone up exponentially in that time. We've gone from budgets in the low hundreds of thousands to budgets in the high tens of millions, teams of under 10 people making a game to teams of hundreds of people. The top-top sellers can still justify the kind of costs involved, but beyond that, it's a gamble where one wrong move can put a decades-old developer out of business because of the sheer costs involved. Keep in mind I'm not talking about the indies here, though they have their own heavy challenges ahead of them.

    To make matters worse, the console market is in a critical state, which I know sounds odd if you only listen to the bluster from PR. The fact of the matter is, this is the first generation of consoles *ever* that will sell fewer units than the previous generation. In fact, it's nearly a statistical impossibility that this generation of consoles will even sell as many units as the generation before that. There's a reasonable chance of ending up around the same numbers as the PS1/SAT/N64 generation, where games cost an average of around $1 million to make. Fewer customers to sell more expensive games to at nearly the same price as ever. Margins are higher thanks to the move to optical media and digital sales, but it's again not enough to make up the difference. PC is shouldering some of that difference, thankfully, but even that has its limits, while player expectations don't.

    Gaming is not a sustainable business in its current form. It's like if movies could only make money in theatres, with no other revenue streams to prop them up. This is why games as services are so attractive to publishers. Because it at least gives some chance of revenue beyond the pre-existing front-loaded model which has always been marching to its eventual doom.
     
  13. september

    september Well-Known Member

    Sep 14, 2012
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    The PlayStation 4 is the fastest selling console in history, it has already sold a quarter of what the original PlayStation sold in its first 10 years in 2. Fallout 4 has set records for the franchise, GTA V set records for the franchise, Destiny as a new IP has set records, etc. I personally don't see the decline but that's fine, it's as much PR spin, if not more so to plicate the masses for alternative additional revenue streams. Smaller mobile and Indy developers struggle with the same things and there is a scaleable balance against more expensive development due to less infrastructure, less investment and backing, less marketing power, less experience, less insurance coverage, just as much to lose. There are negatives and positives at both ends of the scale, I feel both will co-exists just fine.
     
  14. CoreyFox

    CoreyFox Well-Known Member

    Jul 4, 2015
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    Wow, that was powerful and a delight to read.
     
  15. Shaun Musgrave

    Shaun Musgrave Well-Known Member

    Jul 8, 2013
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    This is no longer true. It was, for a time. It fell behind the Wii's pace halfway through the first year, and it fell behind the PS2's pace earlier this year. You're right, it's selling well against the PS1, but it's a bit disingenuous to use its 10-year lifespan for comparison, as it made ~95% of its sales in its first 5 years. You're correct that the top few selling pieces of software are doing well, but software overall is down by a significant percent, and the gains those franchises are making are pacing behind the extra costs of production and marketing.

    I haven't at all denied that mobile and indie gaming face their own challenges. Not many companies, big, small, mobile, PC, console, etc, are making a lot of money anymore. That's why you're seeing Japanese companies diversifying or exiting the market. Japanese business culture is extremely conservative due to the expectation of keeping employees for life - market gambles are seen as risking your employees' well-being and are somewhat frowned-upon. This business used to be easy money. It's increasingly a fight for who can spend the most money to scrape a few percents of profit off the top.

    There's a reason analysts are bearish on the video game business these days, especially with regards to the console side. They've all got the numbers, and if you have the numbers, it's impossible to deny that things are pretty much crashing in slow motion. Anyway, that's my peace. I've been calling this for ages now and so far the numbers have gone almost exactly as I expected, with the exception of Xbox One being even softer than I'd guessed. I'm content to let history back me up on this in the long run, though, so let's say we'll come back and compare scores in a few years, okay? :)
     
  16. pluto6

    pluto6 Well-Known Member

    Jun 21, 2009
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    So dont you thnk the answer will lie in how gaming goes forward? The bottom line is there is a lot of money out there, millions of people that are interested in gaming. Seems to be that someone is going to capitalize on that. Might not be Sony or MS or the current folks, or the huge productions we get now might not happen. Maybe it will be strictly over the internet? I guess we will see, its been a good long run for me.
     
  17. Shaun Musgrave

    Shaun Musgrave Well-Known Member

    Jul 8, 2013
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    I think the future lies in the direction us older folks aren't going to like. But there will be those who still meet our needs. They just won't have millions of dollars to play with.
     
  18. nobstudio

    nobstudio Well-Known Member
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    Jul 8, 2011
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    I love pc games but never get used to handheld ds or console, not good with controller. My xbox sits in the box for years. Some friends bought ds just for 1 or 2 games.

    PC game: will live on thanks to steam opening up opportunities for small indie devs(like mobile). Before mobile there was the facebook game madness, before that mmorpg madness.
    handheld devices: mobile phone with controllers might be better alternative. I don't see how ds can make a come back.
    Console: probably have to offer even more premium experience such as virtual reality.
     
  19. september

    september Well-Known Member

    Sep 14, 2012
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    Would be my pleasure, I'm old enough to have seen people say the same thing every couple of years yet PC gaming in particular has never been healthier.

    Considering you will always have different markets and the fact I feel what you're saying is trying to be sold as a means of opening up revenue streams primarily rather than being a fact, I'll see you here in two years and see how things have turned out.
     
  20. crunc

    crunc Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2008
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    The market for console gaming might be getting smaller, but I'm highly doubtful it will go away.

    On a related note, I don't think VR is going to have a significant impact. If anything kills Sony, it might be if they put too many eggs in that basket. VR is going to be a novelty with a short life span as people come to realize that a) they don't want to wear something on their head and b) they DEFINITELY don't want their kids wearing something on their head and being completely oblivious of them
     

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