A quick question here: is it possible to disarm firestones/froststones/gasstones once they've been set off? Many are the occasions when I've seen an enemy activate its stone(s) with its dying breath...and the resulting sphere covers the only way down. I usually give up with the knowledge that walking in that sphere means certain death for me and my pet.
What is up with the Gnome Mines? I didnt find any key to the final room. Also, what is the point of the King demanding 1000 gold if he doesnt do anything when you dont pay? Also, it was a little frustrating figuring out how the elevator works -- I think this could be improved by putting a visible lever on either side of the elevator.
Do you want the key or not? I agree. I'm not happy with the elevator controls. Never give up. Do you have a potion of speed? That will get you to a firestone before it explodes. Teleport? Edit: to clarify, they deactivate when you pick them up. These "discovery modes" train the player to rush ahead without caution, which is the worst way to play any roguelike. I played Rogue years ago as a kid, and I tried to save-scum my way to the bottom. After many attempts getting hopelessly stuck, I realized that by playing this way, I wasn't getting any better at playing the game. I played properly, the game was far more fun, and eventually beat it. To use the above case - a player would just walk up to the Firestone, click "no, I don't want to die" and keep playing, entirely missing the fun of chugging through their potion inventory, or trying some other solution. Desperate situations are some of the best moments in the game - whether you survive them or not - see the recent post on http://reddit.com/r/WazHack for example. Also, the content is part of the reward for making progress, so it ruins the game to see it all in one 5-hours grind. This is less of an issue with ASCII games. It's a tricky choice. I don't like to leave out such a simple feature, especially when a couple of people have asked for it. I've asked longer term players though and they often tell the story of how they might get frustrated a bit, but would eventually come back and enjoy it again, and when finally winning it was a very sweet reward. I'd rather facilitate that kind of experience than provide a temptation for people to give up and cheat themselves (I don't believe an option is "just an option"). I'm certain that I lose players (and income) with this choice, but in the end it means better experiences for the players who do persist. I know it violates "the customer is always right", but so does every restaurant that doesn't put a ketchup bottle on the table. Thanks! When I went to bed (Brisbane time), it had fallen to second place, so I was extremely flattered to see it back up to nearly 25% and well ahead again this morning! If it wins, I'll have to add a presumptuous "accolades" page on WazHack.com linking to TouchArcade GOTW as the first and only award the game has achieved!
^^ about the free roam style mode, I vote for not having it and sticking with the current play style, for me the attraction is knowing that there's an end somewhere, even if I never reach it. With a normal game I'd finish it and then be done but I find with rogue like games the fact I never finish them is what keeps me coming back time and time again, especially with this as there seems to be something new to see the further down you get, But I'm not sure if there was an option that I'd be able to resist using it.
Voted. This is an amazing game, no doubt in my mind it should get game of the week. I would really like to see a review up soon, more coverage hopefully means more money, and more money means more updates.
Thanks Waz! I spent quite a lot of time trying out everything I could think of, from attempting to set off the fire stones by throwing all the large items in my inventory into the sphere (and regretting it intensely afterward) to simply waiting it out (and starving) but running in to pick the stones up, suicidal as it sounds, didn't quite occur to me. Your difficulty with the gnomish machines is not a bug. They can be brought down, you just need to have the right perspective. Ask yourself: what are these things? They're hunks of metal powered by gnomish technology. You could get lucky and cleave through an important gear or two, but unless your weapon has been enchanted to legendary levels, I wouldn't expect to reliably take down a mecha with medieval weaponry. Magic does the job better. It could just be me, but I try to be creative; some spells, by nature, should work better against machinery than others. Or you could simply jump/levitate over them. If all else fails, try diplomacy. If even that fails, be ambitious - try diplomacy by arms ...And yeah, voted for GotW as well. It's kinda sad how low-profile this game is at the moment, getting GotW would be great for introducing people to the roguelike genre.
This seems a non sequitur. If I can revert to an earlier point, I get my "can't win the game" status bit set and I still have to deal with the same problem. What it does mean is that I can try different ways of dealing with the problem until I figure some out, rather than having the only three choices be (1) give up and skip this part of the game entirely; (2) ask the designer for spoilers; or (3) wipe out my 10 hours of game play, then start over and repeat for another 10 hours until I get to the same point and try something else that doesn't work, then repeat that over and over a bunch of times. None of those choices are very attractive. But by asking only the long-term players who stick around in the forums you are selectively querying only a very small part of the user base. None of the people who gave up on the game because of this issue are around to answer your questions about what they would have preferred. You can design a game only for people like you, or for everyone so that they can play it in different ways depending on what they personally like. To me, one of those is clearly better than the other. If you recognize that not everyone is alike I think it will become more clear to you, too.
Ah, this is quite different to the "discovery mode" in games like NetHack - those just allow you to not die, magically resurrecting at the point where you died (i.e. after the gem exploded). I see now that you are talking about is arbitrary save points, or at least 'check points'. Arbitrary save points are not quite the same, but the consequences are similar - the player just grinds forward not worrying about anything because if anything goes wrong, they can just reload. Actually winning the game becomes little more than a "win the game with one life" checkbox achievement. This entirely misses the point and pleasure of the roguelike genre. It's not just long-term players - oooooomonkey above makes that point above (sorry to name names). Plenty of new players that have never played a roguelike before discover the style and find that they like it. If they could just do their "usual" save-grind style, they would never discover this "new" genre. Others, as you say, walk away. The notion of designing "for everyone" is a fallacy. If games could be made "for everyone" without turning into washed-out white-bread disappointments, greater studios than you or I would have done it already. It is not always better to provide an option and "let the player decide". The mere act of providing the option changes the game for all players - we are human and temptation and habit effect us. WazHack was never intended to appeal to everyone, and I'm perfectly fine with that. It's intended to appeal to people who have an existing passion for or a ready predisposition for roguelikes. It's an old genre, and it has had its ups and downs in popularity, but it has been around for a long time for good reason. Believe me, saying "no" is not easy, but this is the game I want to write. I accept the validity of both sides to this argument: people are different. Fortunately, there are many different games and many different players. -- Waz
+1. Stick to your guns sir ! There are a gazillion games on the App Store that pander to the modern gamer. I've spent hours and hours playing this and never got deeper than 650ft ! I've enjoyed every last minute of it. I will probably still be playing this game in a year or two, probably more long after lesser easier games have long been deleted and forgotten. I should probably try with a different class. Bought them all on day one but I've been struggling to master the wizard so far. I am getting better. My approach is to not use any item that is not identified unless it becomes necessary to survive. Then I'm putting my first three points in Deutronomy followed by one in literacy and then adding to my mana regen. Not knowing what items you're playing with is entertaining but no way to beat this !
Haha ^^ that's better than me I've made to it around 550 and that was because a teleporter took me from 350 to 550, hasn't stopped me playing this everyday though. I've been killed by everything you can imagine, but its usually a gang of kobolds and rats. But even what seems like dying 10mins in is always great as you find different things happen. Still haven't came across a good tactic, with the warrior I just forced my way down killing everything in his path and dual wielding, but the Valkyrie keeps dying really close to the surface? The hunters don't seem to bad but finding arrows and a good bow is obviously random. Never usually play as wizard/magic users but thinking ill give them a try, is there much difference between the good/bad pairs of wizards.
Strongly suggest the sorcerer....he starts with a load of identified potions so you dont have to quaff a load of poison to find which one is a healing potion! He is majorly underpowered at the start though so persevere if you get killed a load of times lol
I reached the depth of 1063 ft with the White Witch, I was lucky I found two (2) amulets of life saving and a Remove Curse spellbook early on Then I roasted myself with the ricochet of a wand of fire This game is awesome!
I'm a very conservative roguelike player. I don't quaff potions I don't know about or read scrolls I haven't identified (the rare exceptions being when I'm looking for a scroll of identity itself or in desperate circumstances). When I see foes that are too big for size or too many to match, I avoid heroic confrontations. I run at the sight of sewer pipes and small kobold/dwarf/orc tunnel doors. I rarely touch fountains. I battle from range and leave the direct fights to my pet. I literally play like my life is on the line - which is fortunate, given that I almost always play a squishy sorcerer. This approach has given me a reliable surviving formula, in that I almost always make it down past 500 feet at the least. I'll hazard that this is the mindset that roguelikes should be played in - caution every step of the way, with risky gambles always taken in fear or desperation. Fortune favours the bold, but in an unfair world the bold almost always end up in a bad way...
Well, i m trying to be scaming, sell loot to the trader and take it back from his chest lol He killed me. Anyone has succeed in killing the dude?
I've always been curious about that. Were you invisible when you tried to loot his chest? I do remember enraging a shopkeeper when I fired off a force bolt against a charging hill orc - and hit him offscreen. He's pretty tough - I used a wand of death against him 3 times in desperation, but he either has tons of health or is extremely resistant against magic.
I think it's the latter. I did the same thing except with a lightning wand. I tried everything I had, polymorph, teleport, lightning, etc. He resisted everything. There's some interesting info, which seems speculative but who knows, on the wiki regarding robbing the shop keeper. Spoiler Apparently playing by your alignment can supposedly affect drops, so if you're lawful, you shouldn't rob him.
Waz, I respect your decision to stick to your guns and keep it a true rogue. I know myself and would cave in and use a discovery mode or checkpoints.
Actually winning the game would be impossible in this mode because that was part of my suggestion. I'd bet that I've spent a lot more time playing Rogue and its successors than you (much of it long before Nethack ever existed) so the argument that "You just don't appreciate this type of game" is pretty far off base. But of course you should make the game you want to make. I'm surprised, though, how inconsistent your approach is: you say you hate spoilers and yet you have been handing them out here left and right, rather than making people die repeatedly and start over to discover basic things. And, of course, in this forum the main thing we see is players exchanging their observations so that they don't have to discover everything by trial and error.
Before Waz comes up with an angry retort, I'll just point out that he hasn't actually said that. I thought too that you were asking on behalf of the not-acquainted-with-roguelikes playerbase. There wasn't any implied slight upon you so...please don't take offense. When he mentioned spoilers too I thought he was referring to spoilers...you know, full details of unique enemies or the Amulet of Zaw or whatever is with it, that kind of stuff. I'd hate straight spoilers too. But I think small hints or game elements are fine, since they help you to stop doing things you don't intend to. Heck, if we banned all mention of those we'd have nothing to talk about in here All that aside, these issues have nothing to do with the original question, which was to enable saving or experimental mode in whatever form. I'd also prefer that this not be included...I think it would lessen the 'roguelike experience', no matter how well intended the change might be. ... Back to discussing the game! Waz, I think I asked this before but I'll ask again anyway...would you consider adding a confirmation prompt for quaffing potions or reading scrolls that are obviously harmful via the respective quick potions/scrolls tab menu? It's entirely possible for someone playing on a phone to accidentally tap the neighbouring item instead of the intended one (so I end up drinking a potion of paralysis instead of full healing, for example)
