I bought this game the day it came out, and after playing it on my iPhone more than is likely healthy, I finally beat the Gold dungeon the very first time last Tuesday. By the time I beat it, I had played enough to unlock four of the six gifts. I beat it the first time with the Adventurer, and I beat the next day with the Spellsword on my first run in the Gold dungeon with that character. The best I've done with the other characters is level 7 with the warrior and mage, and level 5 with the rogue and cultist. I don't consider myself particularly skilled, so if you haven't progressed too far in this game but like it, all I say is keep at it. I think what I finally learned that allowed me to win was when to recognize a "problem room" and being willing to unload as much ammo and items as it takes to overcome it. In most of my runs, I lose like half my health in one or two rooms, and then the rest gets chipped away. If I manage to recognize and neutralize a problem room early, then I get much further. The exception is when I draw 3 temerators or that one room with five thorned enemies that's lined with mines. I lose almost every time I walk into that room. I've greatly enjoyed playing the game, but I do have to say the gold dungeon is a slog after awhile. Once I beat the game with each character I'll probably not play that dungeon again. I can't place my finger on why, but it's mostly the thorned. They aren't fun to fight. I appreciate the Rocketcat team being available on this thread. Thank you for producing the only action games I play. I really liked Mage Gauntlet and Punch Quest and I look forward to eventually purchasing Mage Gauntlet II, though I do worry that if this game is an indication of that game's difficulty I'll only know how that story ends when I watch a video of someone else winning it. One suggestion I have is that I understand why the fourth dungeon is 20 levels and completely unbeatable. I'll concede now I'm not going to beat it. Part of it is that I'm not that good at this game, and I'm okay with that. There should be a challenge to those able to take it. The other part is that it takes me like 25 minutes to beat the gold dungeon, and sometimes I only have a 20 minute window in which to play. Would you be interested in creating a fifth dungeon that's only five or so levels long? It could have the same variety as the fourth dungeon, you could even make it more or less just as hard if you prefer. I'm just looking for something that I could start and know I have a shot at completing in around 15 minutes.
You make a lot of great points, I'm pretty much in agreement with everything you said! Something about the 3rd dungeon though... It's not fun to play like the others...
I understand why you increased the shot power of the standard charge attack, but I kind of liked it this way. To me it was a tradeoff of longer range and can hit multiple enemies but does less damage versus the regular attack of shorter range that can hit one enemy but does more damage. I wonder if with the changes it will become standard practice for the mage to charge every shot. My opinion on the forge upgrades in general is that people seem to like the ones that complement how they want to play the character, but don't like the ones that alter how they approach the character. I feel that part of how you designed the forge upgrades was to make the player play differently when they encounter them, and what you are seeing is people reacting sometimes by rejecting that choice. One example I see a lot of is people who prefer the warrior to the adventurer, except when as the adventurer they pick up the forge upgrades for the shield and the large sword. Then they can play the adventurer roughly like the warrior. This is because they would rather play the warrior but haven't won the gold dungeon yet as the adventurer. (As an aside, I'm a big fan of the torches, even the Tamed Sprite, and even though it doesn't currently cause damage). Specifically to the mage, and speaking strictly for myself, I try to keep my distance from the enemies, so I greatly value the range of attacks. I tend to pick the silver eye staff when available because is preserves that range. I avoid the fire staff and the earth staff because either their regular or charged attacks have reduced range, forcing me to play the mage differently than I would prefer. The exception is the lighting staff. Maybe I'm a sucker for shotgun-esque upgrades, but when I get that one I love to get close to enemies and "unload both barrels" into them. This is only viable because it can kill things in one shot. The bigger problem I have with the mage is the gust attacks, both the default and the upgrade. They have no range, and knocking opponents back isn't as useful as it seems it would be, and I only blocked a shot with them once and that was by accident and I haven't been able to do it since. My suggestion on that one is maybe giving it the same cone of attack and duration of the fire attacks. That way you still have to aim it, but you don't have to be right next to the enemy for it to work.
Yeah, I found the torches to be very useful. For me, they are much more useful than the shield, but then again unlike a lot of players here I'm less of a fan of the warrior. I understand why he is well-liked but I have a hard time playing in a style that works wth his strengths. I actually look forward to the changes to him in the first update in that I don't think he get's nerfed as much as he becomes more flexible to play. The first time I beat the Gold Dungeon, I armed myself with the Tamed Sprite and it was like having a near-inexhaustable supply of hourglasses at my disposal. When I got to the King of Thorns I had no hourglasses but six sprite charges and that was more than enough to camp out in front and slash away. That the torches delay instead of flash instantly will be interesting to see in practice. Is that related to discussions on planting the adventurer when the torch is lit? What currently makes the torches nice is that they block shots while giving you a chance to avoid/handle melee attacks and it doesn't turn off when you swing your weapon. If you get planted than you're going to take hits from melee-wielding thorned. Maybe it still works if it slows opponents like the cultist's green ink?
One thing I find interesting is comparing the Spellsword to the Rogue. I think the Spellsword is clearly the strongest character of the six, especially if you are like me and you played way too much Mage Gauntlet before you played way too much Wayward Souls. The Rogue seems to be the consensus weakest character of the six, one that discussions kicked off right away on how to buff. The Spellsword gets a dash move, a power move that stuns enemies, no ammo-using abilities, relatively lackluster forge upgrades, and a bunch of special item pickups. The Rogue gets a dash move, a power move that stuns enemies, no ammo-using abilities, relatively lackluster forge upgrades, and a bunch of special item pickups. I think the big gap between the two really is that the Spellsword's item pickups are offensive spells that does damage and can quickly clear a room of troublesome enemies, where the Rogue's item pickups are bombs that do little or no damage and do not otherwise alleviate the Rogue of having to go around and individually destroy enemies anyway. I get why the rogue is set up this way. Generally I like it and find her fun to play. In my opinion she has a hard time in the Gold Dungeon though because she doesn't handle crowds well, and that dungeon is basically a series of crowd fights. What I've seen discussed as possible buffs for her so far doesn't seem to help with crowd control, though it's likely a lack of imagination on my part. What I think might be nice for her if she had a "pickpocket" ability, where everytime she kills an enemy she gets a chance for the locked doors to open early without her having to kill every enemy. That way, "Stun and Run" becomes an option for her in a way it's not for the other characters.
Was there supposed to be a boss fight at the end of The Keep? I went down the exits steps but they were in the middle of the floor right before another room. I didn't come across the boss if there is one.
I'll second the comments about the mage upgrades feeling like downgrades. Since the made is a weak character, I favor ranged attacks. It's extremely frustrating when the upgrade either removes the range (for instance, the earth one), or reduces the power of the range - the 3 way shot one. Maybe making it clearer in the description what you'll be getting (long range, medium power) would help. But truth is, I rarely kill anyone with the normal attack. I know if I move closer to the enemies, I'm going to lose health for sure. Especially because of the energy requirements, I don't want to find myself out of energy in the middle of a mob. Any thoughts on just making the normal attack, when energy drained, still attack but have almost no range, like a melee one?
I like to use either that axe or the Duskhander. Duskhander is the exact same except the charge attack spins around, handy when you're surrounded.
I would classify most of the Mage's staff upgrades as "advanced" upgrades. Some of them (particularly Salamander's Breath) really are much better than the starting staff, but only if you're good with the character. If you rely on your charge shot for luring enemies out of rooms or otherwise staying far away, they do feel like downgrades. That's how I started as the mage, and I soon ended up turning down every staff except the Silver Eye when I saw it. However, the Mage is far more effective at mid-range (just outside of the enemies' melee range). At this point, I only really use her standard charge attacks if there are a lot of weak enemies clustered together, and some of the other staffs feel like huge upgrades.
Urban has a great idea there with rogue getting to open doors early after killing something, like a 1-2% per kill. Would make an interesting play style, could even be a forge upgrade. I think that the attack charge thing should be boosted either baseline, or with like a gift or something. (Not being held in place when charging would also be very welcome... >_>) Those mage changes sound fantastic! I'd love to have actual different playstyles, and those changes seem to bring that in line for us. We need a weapon on someone that leaves a persistant field, like one of the circle spells from enemies or poison bombs. (rogue seems natural choice: weapon that drops a 5-sec dmg cloud of 1-2 dmg per second 20-50% chance when killing an enemy) Also, mage wind robe is lackluster, I think the aoe should be wider but not longer, like a wide bar perpendicular to players sight direction, and make enemies that hit a wall or another enemy take dmg and/or deal damage to the hit enemy. Would allow interesting tactics like using the adds on second boss as ammo! Looking forward to update!! ^_^
It's really easy for me to make design changes, quickly. As long as they're not related to bugs, anyway. Glass Sword and Bane of Bones are known problems... anything else that doesn't break enemy guard shields when they should? I could have sworn there was an adventurer weapon that didn't break shields like it should. Yes, that's pretty much the crux of the game's strategy once you start hitting the third dungeon. You can't stubbornly horde items, or you'll lose all your health. Mage Gauntlet 2 won't be permanent death. I would like some randomization element, maybe random dungeons, for replay value. We haven't decided yet. But yeah, the world definitely won't delete itself if you die in MG2. A short 8 level dungeon called THE GAUNTLET is already built, and waiting to be put in an update. You get an upgrade forge every level, every level is 5 fighting rooms big at most, and it's jacked up to the maximum difficulty. Right now it's designed so that you have to beat the long fourth dungeon as one of the characters to unlock it. But maybe we should change that part? Seems like I actually use the charge attacks a little less now? Will see, though. I just changed the gust and ashen robe spells. Now they all go a little further, and all but the starter one cover a wider area. Most importantly, all of them, including the starter one, linger around for way longer. This makes the timing a lot easier, so it's actually feasible to use. Right now the idea is that you'll get planted for just a little bit. Probably not much longer than a normal attack does. In exchange, I'd make the torches do more damage like they used to. The big difference between them is probably just the Rogue's reliance on backstabbing, versus how the Spellsword can just slash frantically with his shortsword. The dagger playstyle is good for single targets, weak against crowds. Cultist gets a lot of tools to overcome this, Rogue's tools are much more limited in comparison. Rogue is getting a bunch of tweaks to help with this. Making FAKE OUT actually accomplish what we wanted it to would be really helpful, I think, but this will be in Update 2. The ability idea is cool, though I don't think any of Rogue's upgrades are getting replaced. Nope, we avoided this with the mage. Her dust fling used to do a little bit of damage in melee. Having a weak melee attack just pretty much made her a really bad dagger character, in testing. People would spam 4 spell shots and then mash the punch button. I think at some point we'll make it so you can still run around while charging up a power attack. Need to test it though. That's a good idea too. Like the Rogue Giantstompers. Don't think I'd do that for this game, though, but in future games I think all attacks like that should damage other enemies if you fling them into each other.
Yay Kepa reply(s)! If anyone wants random ideas for their game lemme know and I can give you some "shotgun style". It's one of my favorite mental exercises! You know, when it comes to games like this, vaiety is the most important thing, it is really what offers replayability. Like having numerous ways to go about a problem that you are likely to encounter repeatedly. I think that is why super metroid and dark souls are so amazing, as you can sequence break and make and fiddle with things to try some crazy builds or combos or strategies. Finding that interesting and awesome combo that magically fits together is a good feeling! (Like old watch + buff sword in mage gauntlet vs. slime levels. <3) Diablo 3 just figured this out with its loot 2.0 thing, and it actually has players now lol. Give the player malleability with how they play the game and watch the awesome that arises! (ive seen some really funny pvp in dark souls 2 lol) Y'all keep up the good work, I look forward to the updates and mg2!! Time for bed, 3am is enough for one day =-_-=
If you are adding a fifth dungeon and the fourth dungeon is as impossible as you say I think most normal people would like you to give access to both 4th and 5th right after the 3rd unless that clashes with some story
I think the rogue being able to open locked doors early at a 1 or 2% rate of kills would be really cool.
Don't make the fifth dungeon only accesable afterbeating the fourth, please. Maybe you find a secret room in the third or fourth dungeon which unlocks the fifth? Just an idea.
Do you do any upgrades to the standard Mage shot? They seem, worse then the standard shot for the gold dungeon.
Oh another idea, the stained glass sword is awkward in a sense to reflect magic with, i can do it, but it seems like way more work for the seemingly small damage than it should be. I think its my Zelda history or something but, would it be ok if the stained glass reflected with regular attacks, but now attacks take stamina a la mage? Seems a fair trade off, makes the sword a mage-killer which seems to be its intended function, and its power attack could be increased slightly in length, like 30% or whatever. (Honestly I can't think what a good power attack would be for this, were it to be changed. meh.) Whoo! Ideas!
