...Alright, Mr. "I'm not a Marine". I can see that you definitely "understand the kind of mind it takes to defend a NATION". Alright, the only sensible thing you said... But here I go about to bash on ya for it in a bit. Saying this completely contradicts your statement that we shouldn't judge the outcome by what the media tells us, as you are judging the outcome by what you are telling yourself. Unless you'd like to provide us all with the proof that they were, indeed, "fraternizing" with the enemy. And another thing: Just because the people in the square MAY have been insurgents doesn't mean that they are guilty of fraternization. It's exactly like the Red Scare in the 1920's: innocent immigrants and even longtime citizens were killed just because someone thought they had talked with someone affiliated with the Bolsheviks. Complete and utter baloney (or bologna, you damn English teachers. ). I completely agree. The soldiers in the copter were obviously ready to get the guns firing, and didn't exactly give very detailed descriptions of the happenings ground-side, but that's what happens when you're in a hostile zone and the brain is getting your body to pump as much adrenaline as it can. The higher officers were the ones to give the orders. This cover-up is the thing that should really be scrutinized, not the soldiers involved. Um... What? Because there are more soldiers there are more idiots? Okay, that makes sense, I guess. However, because I know what you meant to say (I think...), I will say this: judging the integrity of the entire army based on the few hair-trigger soldiers you hear about is highly prejudiced. "Don't judge a book by it's cover," as they say. -------------------- Alright, now my opinion in full: Yes, the soldiers appeared to be very trigger-happy, but anyone would be with all that adrenaline pumping. Not that I know from experience, but I imagine that I would be very anxious up there several stories high with what could be a lethal weapon in their hands. My only bone to pick with them is firing on the van; they saw absolutely no weapons being distributed or anything, no immediate danger. The only conclusion I could draw from that was that they were trying to take him to a hospital, and firing on a medical (or merely "spontaneous assistance", as it probably was just a civilian who saw the man in need of help and tried to give aid) vehicle is in no way right. What I think we need to look into was the cover-up. Who was responsible for this information to be held rather than released, and why this was done are questions that need answering. The higher officers need to be looked into. Also, placing blame on the US Military for not "allowing" media coverage of a theater of war is pure, smelly, rancid, unmistakable bullshit. The media is let in there all the time, and obviously so, seeing as how the war is being to dramatically covered. Basing your opinion on this media coverage is as stupid as participating in a rodeo when you just had spinal surgery. The media plays a game of twisting the truth to make the story more interesting. Perhaps a distinguished senator speaks out against one woman in particular's habits. You know what the headlines will say? "Senator Against Women's Rights", in some cases. That's much more of a hook than the truth would have been. Just remember that hindsight is 20/20. Looking at that camera footage once, in real-time, it's really hard to tell that those are cameras instead of weapons and that there are actually children in the van. Blame the cover-up, not the soldiers.
its a common case of guilty by association, they were willingly there as well. Meaning they new the risks and they knew they wern't at Disney land, they were in a hostile area and they knew it. As I said before though the children are a tragic case because they simply had no choice or control to be there or not. But the premise of judging if ones life is in danger isn't our call on tge battlefield it's there's, & I'm certainly not suggesting I know the first thing of being on a battlefield because I fall in the sane catogory as the majority of Americans who take there freedom for granted. That why I say that no of you or us I should say know what kind of mentality you would need to defend a nation on the field of battle. Doest mean they deserve it but since I wasn't there who knows? Maybe they did.
I'm sorry if some of my posts seem contradictory, but I usually state how I feel, throw in some irony maybe a little sarcasim.... Personally I thought most would see this but guess I'll have to explain anything that seems out of place.
The guy that has the three Apple logos for his username makes no sense whatsoever. Everything he says is contradictory to his previous statement and yet he's trying to make a coherent argument. Bravo. And yourofl10, calling others immature is hypocritical based on your "shit happens" posts. Yes, it's an opinion, but does not contribute to this discussion whatsoever and makes you look like a 10 year old. I'm not trying to insult either of you, so don't take it the wrong way. However, you guys really need to form something coherent and useful to be able to really support your ideas, even though others may oppose them. That's all I have to contribute.
that's right nothing I've said makes sense. Red is blue, up is down and it's not even opposite day. I think my way of thinking is too abstract for this forum or at least you guys don't see much color. Like I said before I have a lot of ironic sarcasim after stating my true feelings. If you read it a take it just as it says and can't understand that where I'm coming from it's your own fault, I have no trouble getting along. Happy unbirthday Kunning
Quote: Originally Posted by All I'm saying is none of us were there so none of us should pass judgment by what media of all sources tells us. The above doesn't make any sense what so ever, or coherent at all? ...ok nice contribution. Thanks for the advice.... I guess I'll just jump on the side that obviosly this post was made for. Stupid Americans!!! Can't they see it's a camera, they should be punished. There all better.
Last time I checked, simply putting words down on a page makes it really hard to judge whether a statement is sarcastic or not. Don't blame others for your mistake of failing to put in the proper smileys, italics, etc. to put across your sarcastic ways.
Ok I won't do that ever again (sarcasim) sorry I gave you guys more benefit then you desrve. (not sarcasim) there all better.
Just to add something no one has seemed to have pointed out yet, the troops were planning to fire on the basis that the journalists were carrying "weapons", thought to be AK-47s. It is only after the order to engage has been confirmed that one of the men mistakes the camera for an RPG. He calls it out quickly and with surprise; the conversation then takes on a slightly more panicked / urgent overtone. So IMO, they had no reason to fear for their own lives up until the camera was mistaken for an RPG. But by that time, they had already got confirmation to open fire. My conclusion? It was a mistake. Everyone makes them. This one just had bigger consequences. Yes the rules of engagement are very likely to have been broken, but I doubt it's the first or last time it will happen. So instead of trying to place blame or cover up the mistake, it should be learnt from so it doesn't happen again. Something like journalists being required to report movements to the relevant military forces, or simply creating a physical means of distinguishing themselves? (I realise there are huge flaws with both of those ideas, just quick examples off the top of my head) edit: What does that even mean?
I'll just add this. Thank god we didn't fight WW2 with these rules of engagement. This is war. Journalists know the risks by now. The U.S. Military has and does make great efforts to avoid civilian casualties. That being said it is war and those things will happen. Doesn't make it right or wrong. Just makes it war.
I dont need to justify anything for someone like you. You have your own opinion. You put yourself in the middle of a battlefield with guys who strap bombs to children then shoot at you to then simply drop their weapons and walk away. Its a horrible thing that happened, but if you make mistakes out there people die. You make a mistake of identiy you just say "sorry." Stop looking for an argument. You say one argumentive thing and you leave. Tell me sir your opinion and experience on the battle field. Tell me which country never killed civies in a war by accident. Tell me how perfect your country/world is in your mind. Then tell me who you blame for this incident.
Pretty much dissappointed about the army. Yeah the army is such a disgrace, made me think twice in ever joining! They should have been placed under the death penalty for killing civilians and taking the situation in their own hands without proper authority!! This is what happens when you give mentally challenged individuals weapons, they would go crazy for some violence! YEAH! Another thing, I don't give a crap about if that was a war zone or not, they should have searched or apprehended them. The thing that pissed me off the most was the amount of enjoyment in their eyes, they pratically didn't give two craps about irakians. They also critically injured a child! WTF!
Oh it was in 2007? Whoa good job george Bus**t! well we can't blame the soldiers, obviously this was when that primitive president was in charged of things, screwing things up with his goddamn wars!
is not the first time it happens.always kill civilians, innocent reporters....... We made USA global power and this is result. Look at Financial crisis...they poorest countries with loans from the FMI
Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not? Have you ever walked up to a group of relegious fanatics with an RPG and AK47 and say, "You are under arrest!" A few things will happen. A few things come to mind...They could just lay down those weapons before you got there and walked away. They would shoot you in the face. The pilot made a huge mistake of identifying the weapons. The Press made a mistake about walking around with no markings in a middle of an active warzone. Who paid for it? The press and children did. Who knows where the pilot is now. Was no point to shoot that van with 0 intellegence if you ask me though.
