Wow. After reading the comments over night, I'm not sure what to do at this point. I'm not even sure how objective I can be on the subject. To me a game like Icycle is clearly indie, the strange ideas of one man. Excluding the game just because Chilingo published it seems wrong. And then there's the issue of smaller "ports". Again, games like Boson X were not high profile releases on PC and therefore, I felt they belonged as indie games despite their life on PC, which does not even come close to compare with a game like XCOM. I have to digest all of this. Just am starting to think the games are going to be so limited that it will defeat the purpose if recognizing the "smaller" indie developed games, regardless of publisher.
As someone who's had this kind of discussions endlessly regarding the nature of roguelikes, I think it's better to allow the more open definition of indie. Consider the roguelike debate. If you only consider turn based fantasy retro-esque graphics as true roguelikes, the debate is going to be limited. But expand the definition and consider the action roguelikes, the rogue-lites, the various genre twists of the roguelike formula, and this allows for a definition that accepts the myriad subtleties and evolving nature of the genre and just allow for deeper discussions So it is with indies. Apply as many restrictions and then what's the point of the poll because the pool of games to choose from will be so limited. On the other hand, subscribe to the broader viewpoint and allow the gamers to decide in the end (aka the original plan), focus on the spirit and essence of indie titles rather the concrete business-minded definition. I always felt that to give indies the spotlight in a poll like this one, or a site, whatever, is to celebrate their innovative and original ideas, and if games that are so clearly indie in their presentation and development like Icycle and Penumbear can't even make it on the list, then I feel it can't truly be a honest and well-rounded poll/discussion about IOS indies Okay, rant over
As long as there's some general guideline for what should be included or not then that should help clarify things. Your idea of allowing people time to contest successful nominations is a good safeguard. If there's any other clarification that can be provided up front that might help further. It might be we all just agree to nominate in good faith and not disagree or contest titles until after nominations have concluded and people can nominate whatever they want until then. Many big game mill companies seem more focused on cross-platform releases so focusing on iOS only games might by default limit it to smaller developers with lower budgets even if it does exclude many popular picks like those mentioned by TheFrost.
Funny how Abducted, Lone Wolf and EPOCH.2 can be considered in this poll when Icycle, Boson X and Penumbear can't make it.
And this is exactly what I want to avoid. The last three games are all "indie" efforts regardless of publisher and/or porting from PC. At some point today, I'll try to post a new set of rules. One proposal will be to allow games developed by small studios to qualify regardless of publisher. I'd venture to say that most of these games even with any polish given by publishers are still far from being the big budget games developed in house by the likes of EA, Gameloft and Square-Enix. I think it's the only way to get a true representation of original iOS games and the indie studios behind them. When the nominations are in, any finalists can be questioned before the poll but will only be pulled if an obvious majority agrees.
That's a good explanation, but there's so much middle ground between game mills like Electronic Arts and indie games that makes it hard to define "indie gaming." It's entirely possible everyone here has a different definition of "indie game." One concern is that true quality indies, which in my opinion constitute a sparse minority of iOS games, get overlooked in favor of big business titles from more marginal studios/publishers/backers with their own stipulations/demands. The sense of accessibility for small scale developers is one of the great things about iOS. However, the unfortunate reality is video games are a business largely propelled by corporate/economic interests and talent catering content to what is financially viable, not raw creativity/fun (IAP's prevalence further suggests that). As a consumer I've resigned myself to not caring who made a game or how so long as it's fun/interesting for me to play, in part the term "indie" is as much a marketing ploy as anything else. Here are some articles about defining indie games that I found interesting: http://www.indiegamemag.com/what-is-an-indie-game/ http://mcrogames.wordpress.com/2012/06/29/why-indie-games-are-not-a-scam-and-how-much-indie-developer-really-make/
Of course I understand that, that is obvious. What you seem to discount is that EA owns Chillingo, and that gives a game HUGE advantages in pr and resources. Plus often forces freemium structures. So, do you understand that now? Are you ok, TheFrost?
It may be too late to drop the whole "indie" thing, but what if the criteria was more like "originally for mobile?" Basically, that means games developed for another system should be excluded. Games like Boson X that were originally planned for both PC and mobile should also be allowed. If its a version designed for mobile, like FIFA 2014 (which is technically not a port), it could be allowed. But honestly, is anyone going to put that on their short list anyway? Another option could be iOS exclusives to highlight devs only on iOS. That would be really indie.
For now... I'll edit this post if it changes before the 8th... NOMINATIONS:;: -Fractal Combat X [Oyatsukai Games] -Reaper - Tale of a Pale Swordsman [Hexage.net] -Freedom Fall [Stirfire Studios] -Time Surfer [Kumobius] -Kinetic Damage [Benjamin Marchand] -Quadropus Rampage [Butterscotch Shenanigans] -Danmaku Unlimited 2 [Doragon] -Heroes of Loot [OrangePixel] -Continue?9876543210 [Starvingeyes] -Warhammer Quest [Rodeo Games] If there's any games that anyone feels should not be on this list, let me know, I've got quite a few more titles begging to be placed in a top 10 list... =oP
I think the issue is even from a PR standpoint, do you really think a game like Icycle is as well known as Asphalt 8 for example? It's also not just about name recognition. There may have been 50 people (just a guess) that worked on Asphalt 8. But at least the vast majority of work for Icycle (yes, it may have been given some "polish") was done by one person without access to the giagantic budget of EA or Gameloft. It's totally different in my eyes -- other than PR -- it's still an indie game. I just think it would be even more harsh to not let a game like that compete for something wildly imaginative and not just cranked out by one of the big publisher's studios. Otherwise a ton of great indie games will be kicked to the curb.
You have your work cut out for you. You need to define "indie" and decide if ports that fit the criteria are still eligible based on... Success? release date? platforms released on? Frost might have a good idea in saying no to anything that didn't release on iOS first. It'd make your job a lot easier. Once all that is ironed out I'll pop back in to look at some lists and see if I missed anything I should pick up this year. Good luck AWP.
I've always defined an Indie as being Independent. That means no big publisher, and a relatively small team. These kind of Indie developers deserve some kind of recogntion, since they did it the hard way. Of course, it has been mentioned that EA owns Chillingo, and of course it has it's advantages like huge pr, marketing, resources, testing, etc. But one thing that sucks is the trend of forcing devs to go freemium. I have spoken to three Chillingo devs in person. I asked them all, why not go with a buck premium app like the good old Chillingo days? All three Chillingo devs told me essentially that they were severely encouraged to go freemium by Chillingo and modify their games. I asked them, which version do you like better? They all responded to me that they would rather go with a buck premium, but their hands were tied. I've also heard from numerous devs, that is the reason why they did not go with Chillingo is because they wanted to do it their own way. That should be the Indie spirit, games published by major publishers already received a huge benefit from having a publisher, would be nice to really recognize devs that did it the hard way, and did almost all of the legwork themselves.
Ok. Newly proposed rules: 1. No major ports (ie., no KOTOR, XCOM, GTA, Limbo, etc.) 2. No games developed directly by EA/Gameloft/Square-Enix/Sega/Namco 3. A well-known publisher (like Chillingo, Crescent Moon, Bulkypix) will not automatically disqualify a game since indie devs cannot often afford to publish and advertise their games without contracting with a publisher 4. Ports of largely unknown games from PC, XBLIG or other indie friendly platforms can be considered. 5. 10 nominations by January 8th. Please post nominations just once and edit if changes are required. Since #3 and #4 don't have well defined boundaries. I say we will just nominate, and again, allow members to object to a game they feel is not "indie" enough to make the poll. There will then be a 48-hour period where others can voice opinions on said games before a final ruling is made. We can tweak these rules, but a majority must favor any major change and those in the minority can feel free to not participate. I can add other big name developers to #2 upon input. I think these rules are fair and, despite the question of using higher profile publishers, I hope we can accept that indie devs do use publishers, even to gain enough exposure just to pay for the hard work their single-man or small team did to create their game. If the poll becomes too much of a flame war, the poll (and thread) will be closed. I'll accept any more input to the rules over the next 24 hours, after which the OP will be updated and nominations can commence (or continue)
That sounds boring. Even though I object to the definition of Indie, I can live with the above rules.
BTW, I do understand concerns about publishers like Chillingo, but I think the best way to look at is this: I'd much rather have indie developers succeed using a big publisher than fail because they went unnoticed.
