Devices, yes. Not people. I haven't specifically checked the App Store T&C, but the vast majority of software is sold subject to a clause that only one copy may be in use at any one time. That means you're allowed to run it on both of your iPods, or that you're allowed to install your iTunes library on your desktop PC and your laptop and your netbook so that you can sync your iPod whether you're at home or in the office or wherever. I'd be very surprised indeed if the licence permitted you to give copies of the app to other people, who could all play it at the same time you were playing it.
First off, thanks for the information. I agree that piracy is terrible. The problem I have is that often times this mix of fake numbers and logic based off of fake numbers (in general, not your statements specifically). This is bad for a whole bunch of reasons, and not just because it makes people complaining about piracy look like they are always stretching the truth. "the majority of the core audience has converted to piracy" 30-40% doesn't seem to be a majority to me. I hope you are making the old claim that "lost sales = 100% of all pirates" No one can know exactly how many sales are lost, but it is impossible to argue with certainty that it is a 1:1 ratio. But let's split the difference (this is arbitrary, but any split is)— it seems that if half of those 3000-5000 (1500-2500) pirates all bought the game on launch day it would probably make it into the top 100, but if that got spread out over a week or even over three days, it still might not make the list.
I'm not disputing that the competition has increased or that the market has saturated. I'm not hiding behind piracy and acknowledge that our two games appeal to different audiences. But it should be pointless to argue against the data, which shows that of those people who are aware of a game during its launch week, proportionally more are now stealing it than a year ago. I also wrote down an example of how this can kill a game by ruining its launch. And like I noted before, piracy has killed developer studios, computer manufacturers and game consoles. Still there's always someone to play the devil's advocate.
Nobody WAS arguing against that data, so far as I can see. As I said, it's pretty much inevitable that PROPORTIONATELY piracy will increase, if the amount of competition outstrips the growth in the market. It proves absolutely nothing about losses or success/failure, though. The App Store charts don't work by proportion of piracy, they work on sales. If you've sold 50,000 copies and 5,000 more were pirated, as far as the App Store is concerned that's exactly the same as selling 50,000 copies with another million pirated.
No, this was for Zen Bound, which was launched in February 2009. As said, the launch piracy rate of Stair Dismount (launched in November) was much higher. No, I don't mean to get stuck with that numbers game at all. I'm merely trying to get people to understand that a small group of pirates can have a much larger effect on the total sales of the game than simply the individual lost sales per pirate. Again, if a year ago 3000 people bought a game, they pushed a game up the charts. If the same 3000 people have converted to piracy, the games they like don't get to the charts anymore. So these 3000 people can in some circumstances make the difference between a game either selling 100 000 copies or almost no copies at all. This is a much more devastating effect than a game selling 100 000 or 97 000 copies. A casual user is much less likely to follow up on sites such as TA, and a casual user is much less likely to jailbreak. So it's not unlikely for there to be a lot of overlap between the audience of enthusiast websites and those who pirate their games. Pirates do find the game on its launch day after all, so as an audience they are well aware of all new game releases.
I guess that explains why the unpirateable PS3 is crushing the easily-pirateable 360 and Wii, then...
But you haven't provided a shred of evidence that this is the case. The same 3000 people could be buying the game, but now 10,000 people are pirating it instead of 5,000 so the proportion of pirates is higher. There's zero effect on your sales proven by those figures, though. I don't know if Stair Dismount's absolute sales are higher or lower than Zen Bound's, and the games are so different that it wouldn't prove anything either way. But you can't use PROPORTIONATE piracy rates as an argument that the core audience has changed, because it simply doesn't logically follow. There is no inherent or even implicit connection between the two things, unless you have some entirely different evidence suggesting one.
Proportional piracy has nothing to do with the size of the market, the only thing that increases the proportion of jailbroken devices in the entire volume is how much easier it has become. As for competition between content and increased piracy rates, this can be true if an average pirate downloads even that content which he is not interested in. It would be enlightening to see a comparison of pirated downloads between a game that has had a lot of TA front page time vs. a game that has been quietly launched into the App Store.
It would be better not to mix up retail space with downloadable games market, but yes, since you brought those devices up, XBLA and PSN are doing much better at attracting professional independent games than WiiWare. While not the only reason for the situation, you can guess which one of those three devices is suffering from piracy of downloaded titles.
I presented a hypothetical case of how piracy can in some circumstances have a dire effect on the launch of a game. Take it as you will. There is no data to prove lost revenue, there never will be. There are only estimates. As for Stair Dismount, it has currently made back about 15% of its development costs. I am not about to blame piracy for its poor sales, but it would be ignorant to deny that it has been a factor. So in summary, here's a developer saying "sales of our game have been poor, and we also noticed that piracy has increased". Should we go bankrupt, do you feel like proudly posting on TA how piracy had nothing to do with it, and we simply couldn't compete with the other content?
Exactly. Either theft is wrong or it's not. All else is irrelevant. Some people are assigning emotions to my posts that aren't there. As I said before, if a paying customer is of the same value as someone who pirates a game, why would I pay. I am not ashamed of that. Why should I be. On the other hand, those who believe pirates don't hurt developers have yet to show how revenue is generated by their actions. The best I've seen is they create awareness from paying customers. This is specious at best. The only constant in this is the paying customer. Lose them and pirates will have nothing to steal.
I disagree with the application of intellectual property adamantly and passionately. In fact, I feel that the entire economic system itself is fraudulent nothing more then a carefully constructed pyramid scheme...but thats another subject this is why i feel the concept of IP is absurd --> monsanto seed monopoly what about the farmers? they are being exploited and taken advantage of by powerful corporations who use the concept of IP and copyright infringement as their main weapon of choice. who cares about the farmers? you know the "good ole boys" out there trying to make a living by growing the food we need to live...... How about Tim Langdell? Am I safe to assume that all of you who believe piracy = stealing also feel that Mr TIM had every right to sue indie devs because his IP has been infringed upon? are you guys here to support the indie devs or not? then explain to me why some of you have actually decided to "boycott" a dev because his/her views of piracy differ from your own? or are you here to promote anti piracy propaganda? seriously wake up! you can support the devs WAY more by beta testing, leaving reviews/feedback, and telling your friends about their game. You dont need to perpetuate anti piracy propaganda blindly as if its the only true way to support the devs....... WAKE UP!!!! its not as simple as piracy = stealing you need to logically research both sides of the argument, then apply critical thinking skills and at least try to look at the BIG picture. I hate to be the one to tell you this but the whole idea that piracy = stealing is designed so you will come to an easy and simple conclusion without logically researching both sides of the argument on your own and reaching a informed conclusion of your own! think about it....................
@Cubytes. How does it support developers to write reviews, etc if the piracy model becomes the excepted norm. In other words, how does it help developers if no one pays for the product? I got your dislike of IP from your first post. The enternal question in that debate is how will a creator of an idea be compensated for their effort if everyone can recreate it once conceived. Also, I don't know what farmers have to do with this. Last time in checked you can't copyright a banana.
The logic of that escapes me. Why don't you try actually answering some of the questions that have been put to you instead of evading them?
What are you talking about? Whether I will buy games from developers I disagree with? Who cares? Besides, by your logic it doesn't matter. With all things being equal, I will just use my money on something else.
An interesting discussion. There seem to be quite a lot of TA users who are trying to justify/explain piracy (not just in this thread). I wonder if any of them are prepared to come forward and admit to actually pirating & distributing apps, like how there's apparently nothing wrong with it. There must be a few amongst us & even if you get banned, being so clever I'm sure you'll find a way back in.
Wow this has certainly blown up recently. Snaggletooth, I find it interesting that you are so precient as to be able to know my motivations. You are truly a savant. BTW, you are of course wrong about my motivation. Had you read my post, assuming you can both read AND comprehend, I stated that I deleted his app because I choose not to support someone who doesn't value what they do. I work for a living. I value what I do. I charge a fee for my services. If someone was stealing from me, I wouldn't shrug my shoulders and say, "Oh well". It's none of your business whom I choose to BUY (not steal) from, especially if you're going to spout incorrect assumptions about why I'm doing so.
