We're (Zarista Games) working on one new expansion for the old Quest--Cursed Stone--it should be done either by the end of this year or January 2016. : ) Takes place in an island much like the Island of Skye. So your set is not yet complete. : )
And we can't guarantee Cursed Stone will be our last new expansion for the old version of the Quest. : ) As long as you can buy it on the Appstore.
Nice, the new stuff looks a lot better. I hope you get the balance issues Quest has on high levels under control in the new version. They are the only reason I stopped playing around the time of Asteroids 1.
What do you mean by "balance issues" on high levels?Like what?Like the fact that attack magic does not work well against many high level enemies in expansions?
@Kenan: Yes, the relative uselessness of attack magic at higher levels was the main negative point for me. I know where it's coming from (game engine design, not really/easily changeable), and understand their limitations in that regard. But still... That, and some other things like certain equipment upgrade paths being pretty much mandatory, resulting in a forced focus on item enchantment skill, etc. made playing Quest way too tedious for me in the later highlevel expansions. I think part of the problem is that a lot of playtesting was/is done by Quest veterans who know the Engine in and out. Naturally, these experts have a wholly different take on game balance, and look at a lot of things differently. E.g. I can easily imagine that they immensely enjoy the enchanting game. Which I did too, but only up to a certain point. I believe it would help Zarista Games a lot if they would do an open beta for the next game, and get as many non-veterans on board as possible, while at the same time limiting the influence the veterans have on things, especially balance.
The new version will be the base game, without any expansions. In fact, owing to a lot of things, it's likely that only a very limited number of expansions will be available later, none of them too high level. So, there won't be any problems with balance. And, as a side note, though Zarista Games are the developers of almost all expansions (apart from Islands of Ice and Fire), and Catacomber (from Zarista Games) has helped out with The Quest, it's still a Redshift game, through and through. So, they are not in charge of any testing.
Hi Elendil, been a while... Your future plans sound good, hoping it does work out like that and there'll be no/less balance issues. As for Redshift/Zarista: I always forget, even after quite a few years. Blame it on old age
Yes, except Lost Archipelagos, which is free. You can also buy The Quest Gold, which includes the first three expansions and is cheaper than buying The Quest and those expansion separately.
I don't see why we couldn't do that, Nullzone. Elendil usually gets a list of betatesters and distributes the iOS betas. But the discussions are usually at my forum in a hidden thread. But I don't know why we couldn't do open beta testing here -- except I don't know how to do that or whether Elendil has enough open slots to add many new betatesters. How do you do open beta testing here? Can you tell me how that works and then I can discuss it with Elendil to see if it's feasible for him? He is pretty busy with the hi-res Quest and planning for Steam.
If distributing the betas were too much work for Elendil, I could certainly do it. But maybe he wants to use iTunes Connect to do it. Anyway, let me finish the game and then we can all talk about this. But I would like to know how to do open beta testing here.
How to get a beta test going on TA Hi Cat, here you go. Prerequisites: 1) Have a game that's in beta status already. While some folks here might even enjoy alpha testing, I strongly recommend you get professional QA for that. 2) Submit a beta build to Apple for use in Testflight. I assume you know how to use that, or acquire the needed knowledge if not. 2b) If you don't have a beta build ready, not much of a problem. Just be sure to set clear expectations from the beginning. More on that below. 3a) Set aside enough time before release. People will find stuff you never thought possible. I suggest at least a 2 months time window before your planned release. If your game is big and/or complex, 3 months sounds even better. 3b) Make sure you have enough time for this. Beta testers will need constant attention/feedback, you'll have to verify and write up bugs and enhancements, etc. If you are a larger team, you ideally already have a Community Manager who can deal with this stuff. If not, I'd plan at least 2 hours every day. Just for communicating with your testers, mind you. These 2+ hours do NOT include the time you need to check bugs, talk with your team, get drunk to deal with the crazy folks you foolishly invited to this test, whathaveyou... Other platforms: I have no idea how a beta test works on Android or Steam. But I'm pretty sure they offer something similar to Testflight. If you do multi-platform, AND have the time and resources to deal with multiple betas at the same time, go for it. With that out of the way, on to the meat of things: how to get an iOS beta going here at TA. You'd be surprised how many devs totally botch this in my book, so I'll go into details. 1) Create a new thread in the "Upcoming Games" section. 1a) Pick a good title: "Need testers"... well, I leave that as exercise for the reader. "[OPEN BETA] The Cheese Fantasy RPG - Looking for (optional: amount XX, e.g. 20) Beta Testers" looks a lot better. 1b) Write a clear description: of your game; if you will accept anyone who applies - or if you prefer to handpick candidates from the applications; if the application period is time-limited, or if it stays open during the whole test; expected timeframe; supported and needed devices; how people should contact you (via the thread, PM, email, etc.) ; 1c) Add screenshots and/or a gameplay video, so people can get a first impression of what it'll be like. If you have material on your homepage/blog already, link to it. If you have previous games that go in the same direction (should be obvious here, no? ) , provide their names and (Appstore) links to them. 1d) If you have any specific goals for the beta, say so. E.g. do you need dialogue proofreading? Combat balance testing? Any special feature (like enchanting and Alchemy in Quest) that you want tested the hell out of? 1e) Also clearly state when you will start the beta. If you have a build on Testflight already, you are pretty much good to go. If not, say so. I think that Apple approves Testflight builds faster than apps for release, but I'm not sure. If you just submitted your build, better calculate at least a week before it's live. And clearly state so in the beta description in your first post. If people have to wait a month till the first build is ready - without knowing beforehand, you very easily risk losing them as testers. 1f) If you offer any rewards for testing, say so. Appearance in the credits is pretty standard, so I definitely recommend to roll with that. On top of that, you can always give out promo codes to your testers after release. Just keep in mind that people cannot write an Appstore review for apps they got via promocode. Your testers might be your best advocates and give you good reviews. So giving them promocodes is a bit of a double-edged sword. 2) If you have any known problems that need to be doublechecked and/or that people should pay attention to, list those in a followup post. E.g. if you know that your savegames break in every second build and you haven't found the cause yet, list it. Or if you have a weird graphics bug popping up under specific circumstances, write it down for the testers. 3) If you know any people already that you want onboard, contact each of them personally via PM. Some devs send out mass beta invites more or less at random. Personally, I feel offended by those (why the heck do you think I would want to test a crappy 8bit pixel flappy bird clone?) . It feels disrespectful when a dev wastes my time by carpetbombing invites: obviously he bothered enough to add my name to the list, but not enough to even briefly check my posting history to see if I might actually be interested in the game. 4) For RPGs like yours, I recommend undeadcow and aconfusedkender. I took part in a beta or two where they were around as well, and they left a great impression with me. Oh, and that Nullzone guy, if you can bear with him 5) If you feel so inclined, also invite a few reviewers. Might be they are not interested in checking out a game that's still work in progress, but you never know. Here, my personal recommendation is Appunwrapper. 6) During Beta, listen to your testers! One might be an expert for gamebalance, another for dialogue/story writing, etc. Example: I have RSI, and pay really close attention to any UI issues that cause problems for me. If a dev ignores that, I tend to get irked pretty fast. 7) Provide feedback. Post when you have bug XY fixed, when you submit a new testbuild to Apple, when you think you had enough and prefer to slowly drown all your testers in Klatchian horse manure instead of seeing one more bugreport. You get the idea If you want an example of a beta that went extremely well, and at the same time totally off the rails in terms of what the poor dev expected as timeframe, go check the Demon's Rise beta thread, here: forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=249049 Think that's about it for now, should have the basics covered. If you have any questions, or if you think I missed anything, ask away!
Thanks for the in depth reply, Nullzone. I think you covered everything pretty clearly. Thanks for the recommendations for testers. I think testing here would be a lot better than testing at my website because it gives us access to a lot of skilled people that might not ever know there was a beta to test and good betatesters are so important. I'll talk to Elendil and see if he has the time to read your instructions on how to do this, and ask if he can use TestFlight. The game is created in Redshift's iTunes Connect so they would have to set up the TestFlight but wow this seems like a great way to do this. I could do the work here of setting up the forum thread and monitoring it just as I did at my website. I'd love to have you and others test but I won't message bomb anybody. I don't see where it could be more difficult to manage the testing here but what if Elendil doesn't have the time or inclination to use TestFlight for this? Normally what happens is I give him the info for the testers -UIID's etc. and he readies the game for iOS and sends it via email. Then the betatesters and I thrash out the bugs and balance issues at my forum. There's always a PC version too and testers who just test on PC like Old Shaman. But I don't see why this all couldn't be done in a thread as you mention here. Can it be done if he just sends the beta by email? I'd really like to do it here.
Now you are asking me stuff I don't know much about Let's cover the easy part first: This is actually something I didn't address, and thought about on the drive home: Using a (closed) forum vs. a TA thread. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. E.g. on your forum you can create subforums/threads for bugs, enhancements, general complaints, etc. While here on TA everything is one huge thread, and gets messy easily. And other things, like that a forum is easier to centrally use when you test across different platforms, but raises the bar for participation because people will need to create a separate account etc. On a platform like TA your audience most likely will be larger, unless you are someone like Epic or Blizzard who already have a huge community of their own. The only downside I can think of is that a TA thread is public, so everyone will see your dirty laundry On the plus side, people here appreciate responsive developers who interact with the community. A well-viewed and -received thread can help a lot in gaining traction and publicity.
Now, Testflight: Well, it belongs to Apple now. And submitting a beta build is just as easy as submitting a finished game. Works via iTunes Connect, as well. Plus, I think it is a lot easier than doing it yourself. I took part in my first beta when Testflight was still independent, and you needed UUIDs and whatnot from everyone. Now, according to word of god here https://developer.apple.com/testflight/ you only need an email address from every tester. While they require a first & last name too, you can always fill those with fake data if you don't have them. Oh, and here is Apple's developer guide for Testflight, enjoy the read https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/LanguagesUtilities/Conceptual/iTunesConnect_Guide/Chapters/BetaTestingTheApp.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40011225-CH35 Distributing test builds via email: I am not even sure if that still works with iOS 9.x . Apple clamped down hard on file access via third-party tools, so I wouldn't be surprised if manual loading of apps onto your device is no longer possible.
Just in case this didn't come across well enough: Sending people - even a lot of them - a PM is perfectly fine. Ideally it's a personal one, briefly explaining why you want this particular person to test your game. E.g. "Dear Nullzone, I'd like you test our new RPG SuperCheese. I read quite a few of your comments, and admire your smartassiness and annoying attitude when you diligently point out totally irrelevant minor flaws in obscure RPGs noone much cares about." Even sending a mass text is fine, as long as you explain in general why you picked the people on your list. E.g. because they are the folks you always come across in RPG threads, and they are slightly less - or more, depending on your preference - raving lunatics than your average neckbeard What I personally dislike is when I get an obviously *generic* mass PM for a game where anyone who reads my posts for 5 minutes knows I won't be interested in, like the aforementioned 8bit pixel flappy bird clone. And I can imagine that I am not the only one here who thinks like this.
If you wanted to have a non-public thread here, you could create a private discussion group - which would then be invitation only. You can even have multiple discussions. IMHO I've tested many games on iOS in various ways - TestFlight is one of the easiest methods, and extremely easy since it's been in Apple's hands. It's all done via apple IDs.
I'll talk to Elendil tomorrow about TestFlight. Or maybe he'll see and read the posts here. Nullzone and drelbs, thanks so much! Nullzone, you really could write a whole book about beta testing the right way, I'm sure. Maybe a private thread might be better but then a public one is good too! Please help me decide! Now I have a most comprehensive guide to testing on Touch Arcade. I'm pretty excited! Hope to have the first beta ready to be bundled for iOS right after Thanksgiving. A quick google and it looks like you do need to use TestFlight for testing on ios9!
