I want whatever this guy is smoking. Game development… and about a million other things. They stick the milk in the back of the store so you're more likely to buy something on your way to get what you really came for. Same thing with loading up cash register areas with impulse buys. Therefore grocery stores are evil and tricking poor souls who are too weak to resist! Ban grocery stores! Pretty much everything in life is about how to maximize people giving you money. That is what business is. There are entire industries that exist solely to tell a business how to get more customers and get more money from them. Well, is there some sort of spending cap on gambling? Many people have ruined their entire lives by losing everything they have due to gambling. It's a very widespread problem. There are regulations on how gambling operates but to my knowledge there is no regulation preventing how much someone spends on gambling. IAP is regulated too, but similarly there's no cap on how much you can spend.
All of this sounds fine, but you have to keep in mind, nothing is making people use iPhones. Nothing is causing me to spend money on Hearthstone. Nothing. Again, I'm not a legal expert. But if I'm a judge and this gets brought up, I would toss it out. Why? Tell the user to stop using the device if it's that big of an issue. It's not water. It's not food. It's entertainment (talking about games).
Yes, a spending cap wouldn't probably be feasible. That's what makes it a complicated matter. But at least the consumer should know that when they log into games using their real Facebook account, or Twitter, or anything of the sort, that they, and all their information, are most likely joining a database which will then be sold and used by companies to better understand how to profit from them. You could say, and rightly so, that people post their information online willingly, but I think most would agree that is still, at the very least, a shady practice.
I don't have Facebook (not kidding). So I've never had to worry about them using my info. But even still, I'm sure somewhere in the App Store or in some EULA I've agreed to allowing it to happen. It's just part of it. That's how I look at it. I'm choosing to use a mobile device that's always connected to the Internet. Of course someone will gather data. So be it. If I was that concerned, I simply wouldn't use the device.
But it is illegal to run a casino in your own home: http://www.pokerdiy.com/faq/home-poker-law Yet perfectly ok to take unlimited amounts of people's money on their devices in order to gamble for fake money? Also, underage kids are not allowed to even hang around in a casino, even if their parents are there (at least from the information I could find -- please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not a gambler or a parent). Is there a regulation that prevents kids from gambling on their parents' devices? Again, it's all a question about how far do we go with regulations, what's too much? Some folks probably think it's stupid not to let kids gamble. But that doesn't mean regulating microtransactions is a dumb idea that should be dismissed without a second thought. Just because the ideal way to regulate it isn't clear yet doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be done.
I'm a parent. It's on me to regulate what my kiddos play. GameStop has rated M games in their store. It's on me to purchase said game for them. It's not on the developers or on Apple. Every bit of this is on the consumer. It's really not that complicated.
In fact, ever square inch of a grocery store is designed to encourage customers to by more then they came in for. For instance, why do you think all the kiddy cereals are placed on lower shelves? That's right, to put them in your kids face so they will hound you for it and hopefully you'll give in to shut them up. Everything in there is designed to motivate purchasing. Also, casinos don't have clocks or windows. Nothing like gambling the night/day away because you didn't realize what time it is. My point is, I agree with what you're saying. These Jedi mind trick tactics exist everywhere.
You guys are aware that the hundreds of millions of people playing these games and paying for them are doing it because they genuinely enjoy them, right? I feel like too many people on our forums live inside of these weird bubbles for all these rants to make any kind of sense. Here's some homework: Next time you're at a bar, or on the subway, or somewhere else where you see someone playing Clash of Clans, Candy Crush, or whatever else, ask them about their spending habits. What you'll find is these are typically supremely casual accidental gamers who see spending $10 in Clash of Clans gems in the same light that most normal people look at buying a beer at a bar. They're buying it because they enjoy it, fully aware that it's temporary and in both cases is literally going to be pissed away. Nowhere in the real world do you find these insane arguments surrounding how IAP should be legislated because we need more premium games or whatever. The millions of people powering this market like getting things for free, and totally don't mind rolling a few bucks here and there into their entertainment budget that's similarly spent on Redbox movie rentals, going out, etc.
What I'm trying to say is that it's not so black & white. Isn't it illegal to keep your child out of school without being registered as homeschooled? You're not allowed to just say "it's my child and if I want him to work in a factory, he will!" All I'm saying is that "it's your responsibility" doesn't always cut it with other things, so why are we so quick to say that here?
I'm not seeing what one has to do with the other. I can't open my own casino in my home, sure. But I can create a business selling pet rocks to people. There is no regulation on how much money someone can spend on my pet rocks. Also there is no regulation on me driving to Vegas and spending my entire life's savings on gambling where it is regulated and allowed. There are a lot of things happening in the digital space regarding real money gambling, and it may in fact spill over to free to play games someday. But as of right now nobody is doing anything illegal. Ethically questionable? Maybe! But not illegal yet. You can't gamble on iOS devices. You can spend money on things, but it's not considered gambling. However, there ARE regulations against underage people spending on iOS, it's just that they rely on parents using the tools available to them to prevent it from happening. I don't think I said that it was a dumb idea? I think it would be very hard to do, however, especially on a global scale. You'd have to create specific regulations for each country's government, and more than likely people who believe in their civil liberty would not be super excited about a government telling them they aren't allowed to spend money on something if they want to.
Data gathering and hunting the "whales", right? There's so much we aren't even aware of, probably. Eli, an opposite opinion is not necessarily a "rant". People here are having a discussion and making valid points. Both "sides" in fact. I don't live on a bubble. It is quite the contrary. Also, people are not implying that all f2p are shady and that all people that play abuse or anything like that. However, the topic deserves discution, like drugs, alcohool etc. I don't think games are imune to that. Why would they be? People enjoy playing? Of course. So do I, you and probably many here. However, for some (or many) this fun is really addiction. And this also applies to beer (which I use) that is socially estimulated and cause so many problems from abuse. This is a sensitive topic. People here like gaming and like to discuss all aspects of gaming, which is natural. If it were not for that, what would be the point of even pointing?
Exactly! I let my kids watch YouTube and Netflix without too much monitoring. That's my decision. I have their Netflix set up with kid accounts so there's no danger of them finding R rated content. The worst thing I've seen on YouTube is bad language, which I don't care about, as long as it's not "suck my D" or similar. If I walk into the room and one of them is watching The Human Centipede that's on me. I'm not going to blame Netflix. I do however have their kindles on lockdown. No purchase of any kind can be made without a parental password.
The problem is that this has been debated to death dozens and dozens of times already. Now that this has been moved to the General Discussion section, I'm actually fine with that. Make a freemium discussion thread every day until eternity for all I care! (Don't actually do that.) The big problem is that these same arguments permeate the actual game threads and that's not OK. And I think just due to the fact that we've seen these same discussions and arguments over and over and over ad infinitum already makes it much easier to dismiss them off as "rants" rather than some sort of valuable conversation. But if you and others are enjoying this discussion, then please, keep going! I imagine there are a million more productive things you could be doing, or even some really awesome games in your backlog you could be playing (same goes for me as well), however I'm not going to tell anybody how they should spend their limited time on this earth.
I never said any of these practices are illegal. That was the point, though -- a question of whether these things should go unchecked simply because they are now. The initial idea someone proposed was whether games could be regulated so that after you spend a certain amount, the game becomes premium. I think some more ethical developers have even implemented that themselves, with a cap on spending (although I'm not sure if it was a mobile developer -- does Apple even have a way of making that work?). So maybe it's not such a crazy idea after all? I didn't mean you specifically called it dumb. But many here have been dismissing the idea of regulations just because they can't think of a way it would work or because it should be the person's responsibility. I'm just trying to point out that things are never that clear cut. People who believe in their civil liberties were also not happy to be told they can't smoke inside public spaces. But I, for one, am glad I can go inside music venues, bars, clubs, etc without choking. So there's going to be conflicting opinions on everything. That's why, one would hope, as a society we would make a decision that doesn't go overboard.
Yes developers can implement that on their own. Strange Flavour had something like that, but stopped because it failed http://toucharcade.com/2015/07/28/strange-flavour-ditching-their-play-nice-iap-system-returning-to-paid-games/ But a developer doing something because they want is not the same as a developer being forced to do something because the government tells them to. Would you be happy if the government put a cap on how much money you could make at your job? Let's say it's 40k, that should be enough to live off of, right? So now no matter what your career is we'll all never earn more than 40k. Jesus I wish I never replied to this thread. I have wasted so much time today reading through all of this crap and the AAA thread. My own fault.
Same here I regret trying to help people see a bit of common sense. Oh well. I've said what I could to help the thread but I feel it's a lost cause at this point. Back to Clash Royale and KOTOR for me. Wait, premium and a freemium, I must be crazy.
Again you're jumping to extremes. There are lots of ways to handle any one situation/problem. Imagine if every time there was a complex situation to deal with, we as a society threw our hands up in the air and said "it can't be done!" and moved on. That's all I was trying to say -- this is a complex situation that isn't going to be solved here. I've never said "OMG ban IAPs!" This is starting to feel like a firearms regulations discussion where I keep being accused of trying to take away people's guns for suggesting simply that what we have right now is a little bit broken.
Again, I had a lot more to add in my response but I stopped mid-thought because I just can't anymore. I never said complex situations can't be done. To be honest I don't give a good god damn what happens with IAP, free to play, kids spending money, none of it. The world and everyone in it can burn to the ####ing ground for all I care. Hopefully death embraces me sooner rather than later so I can stop reading mind numbing shit like this on the internet.
