Street Fighter IV: Volt - Update Proposal

Discussion in 'General Game Discussion and Questions' started by HarlequinRogue, Jul 7, 2013.

  1. HarlequinRogue

    HarlequinRogue Well-Known Member

    Jan 20, 2012
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    I am trying to reduce clutter of having extraneous special moves. Does ken really want a light shoryuken and light tatsu? Yes he does! Can we fit it in, possibly, but it doesn't make sense.

    Abel is a character that needs to be buffed, and one of the best ways we thought of was to give him an additional special that improves his mixup and vortex game.

    I also did not give an SP input for Thunder Bolt because I couldn't think of a reasonable one that would fit in. Maybe instead of complaining, you could suggest a way to fit it in. Personally, I don't think it needs it.

    For the record, I have never said than any existing character has too many inputs. I am just saying that we should aim for simplicity first instead of trying to make characters overly complex. Part of the appeal of Volt I have come to understand is the simplicity and low barrier to entry.


    Yes, Victory Rose is a somewhat iconic taunt much like Dan's taunts and Shades of Glory. However, I don't think it needs to be a dedicated move. Again, how do you propose to add it in?

    If universal taunts are implemented then there is no problem with any inputs.

    As for Dan, he is the classic taunt character. Picking Dan is in itself a taunt. And I found a way to fit his taunts in.


    Personally I think the best models are ones where all content is accessible but needs to be unlocked. However, they can be unlocked either through IAP. Magic Duel of the Planeswalkers is a great example of this. The most comment criticisms I see of games on the App Store is that you have to pay to progress beyond a certain point or the game is pay to win, which is what we are trying to avoid.

    What was confusing about your paragraph was your lack of coherence in your argument. It was unclear what you were trying to argue.

    My view of what should be done for Volt: IAP/DLC content is fine so long as it doesn't impact the playability of the game (so DLC taunts/costumes/stages are fine by me). I would prefer additional characters not to be DLC/IAP unless they are also unlockable by playing the game.
     
  2. Gov

    Gov Well-Known Member

    Jun 24, 2013
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    #882 Gov, Sep 2, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2013
    This game is on sale again and the regular version.
     
  3. HarlequinRogue

    HarlequinRogue Well-Known Member

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    And apparently some other SF titles too.

    I guess it's nice that Capcom still knows the game exists
     
  4. Gov

    Gov Well-Known Member

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    Yea, which gives me and others hope that they will updated for iPhone 5 and upgrade the game for the upcoming - Ultra Street Fighter IV (DLC)
     
  5. VaroFN

    VaroFN Well-Known Member

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    If the first paragraph is a pun for the Light SRK for SFxT's Ken, I already explained it on the last page. Basically it's a way to give Ken some powerful meterless combos both at midscreen and at corner, thus avoiding making Ken a bad Ryu without the long juggles Ryu has at corner thanks to Joudan.

    Anyway, there's quite a difference between making a moveset cluttered and complete. A moveset with b+SP, db+SP, d+SP, df+SP, f+SP, SP can't be called cluttered. Those moves are done just by using one joystick input and the SP button. It can't get easier. You say that Volt is quite easy for newbies to get around the controls, and that we should follow that, and I'm in no way making those controls more difficult by adding Thunder Bolt as down (charge) + SP for Dudley. Just take a look at how newbies play the first match. Most of them will start the match by pressing a direction (most of the time forward) and mashing a button, and once they find that other joystick inputs get them other moves, they also try those in the middle of the match, no matter what character we're talking about. The only problem they will have with characters with many moves (both normals and specials) is finding the purpose behind those moves and how to use them in the matches, and we have the Challengue Mode for that. if you want to make it even easier for newbies, you could add in the Wants list challengues for "special" normals (Collarbone Breaker, etc), special moves, Super and Ultra for each character. Making Thunder Bolt a SP-off only move makes it more difficult for the newbies.

    And yes, my motto is giving characters as many moves at possible.

    Personally I wouldn't have any problems with down, down + SP and I can't see how it would mess with the other inputs, but the universal method would have more priority than this in the changelog.

    About the model for the game, premium with unneeded IAP is the best for the user. The model I thought was based in making the SP even more important than BP. You would earn SP in ranked, bingo (yes, bingo is fine, it just needs a button to skip it), by receiving GGs (the button that appears after finishing a match), with Wandering Warrior and with Arcade/Survival modes. You would earn most SP in ranked, then with Wandering Warrior, bingo, Arcade/Survival/Challengue modes and GGs from other players.
    SP would be earned by playing ranked because it's the main mode of Volt. The best way to add it would be making it escalated, so the first won match earns you x1 SP, the second won match x1.1 SP, and so on. You still win SP from lost matches, but it gets reseted to x1. Of course it also gets reseted to x1 if you DC. The ammount of credits would be fixed, but it should be so that it's a bit like grind, but not like in Glu's games, so players feel the temptation of the IAP but without really needing it. Yes, SP points would be the consumable IAP, and since the accounts would be linked to GC, you would never lose what you spent in the IAP shop, just like in SFxT.
    Bingo and Wandering Warrior should also give you SP since they are original challengues. Bingo would give you a bit more SP than the fixed ammount from ranked, but since it wouldn't be escalated you wouldn't get most SP credits from here. Wandering Warrior should give you only SP per won match, also a fixed ammount without escalation that's a bit smaller than ranked's, so there's a purpose behind Wandering Warrior and finding an avatar and message that work well but without making it more important than ranked.
    Then Arcade/Survival/Challengue should give you also some little points, so you actually feel rewarded after completing them. The differences between the ammounts would be like in SFxT, where finishing Arcade gives you a tiiiny ammount and finishing all challengues for a character gives you a nice ammount of points, so that people that are learning the game and try the Challengue mode, which pretty much works as a tutorial, feel rewarded and want to continue playing.
    And why GGs? The game right now has one huge problem: rude people. Giving GGs to someone shouldn't give you credits, instead the guy that received it gets the credits. This way giving someone GGs feels better for the guy who sent it, because it helps the other player and acts as a reward for a good match, and for the guy who received it, thinking that he's doing well and feels rewarded after doing a good match. Of course the ammount would be tiny, maybe as tiny as the Arcade mode.

    Then SP of course would be used to buy costumes, avatars and messages. We could even make premade comments so there are no more "your a b!tch!!" things. Maybe even ringtones and extra OST (didn't Vanilla have the OST from SF2 or something like that?) and taunts/win poses for each character. Also it would need some consumable items so after getting all things you can still use SP for some other things. Maybe something like an aura that surrounds your characters that lasts for about 5 matches. The aura would be just an special effect and in no way it should give more strenght to the character or any other thing.

    About characters, make Evil Ryu and Oni unlockables through Arcade and a IAP to get both for, say, $0,99, but with a warning that says that they can be unlocked by playing the game.
     
  6. VaroFN

    VaroFN Well-Known Member

    Sep 28, 2011
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    Report option next to each players' cards. It would be used to report people who RQ (Capcom can see how many times total a guy had RQd, so maybe 10 reports for a guy for a penalization) and people who send salty messages via GC in case Apple doesn't add a system to block users for iOS 7 (these kind of reports would need a screenshot of the salty message and 10 reports for a penalization). Penalizations would be:
    -Half SP and BP points for the first time (10 reports).
    -All SP and BP points lost for the second time (20 reports).
    -Ban for the third time (30 reports).

    Maybe this is too much or not. IDK, discuss. TTT2 has perma-ban for people that RQ a lot.
     
  7. HarlequinRogue

    HarlequinRogue Well-Known Member

    Jan 20, 2012
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    I didn't read your proposal for ken in SFxT. I was just talking about Ken getting light Shoryuken in Volt.
    Except Dudley has 5 other special moves. We could use b+sp/db+sp/sp/df+sp/f+sp for those 5 and charge d+sp for Thunder Bolt. Holding df, then d+sp is dangerously close to dp+sp motion. But I want to avoid having the move come out when it isn't needed because as you said, it's not used very much. And if you want to use previous characters for precedence, M Bison has teleports which are manual only and Balrog has his Headbutt with a SP shortcut which is never used.

    Well, mine isn't and I disagree with giving everyone as many moves as possible.
    Seriously. Why are you arguing that Thunder Bolt needs an SP assist input? It's one seldom used (and bad) move and is an anomaly in that it is the only charge move for a character who is predominately a hcb/hcf/qcf/qcb character.
    Yes, Premium with no IAP/DLC is best for the user and freemium is typically best for the company. However, I wouldn't say no to a small price to pay and paying for optional extras that do not add to playability such as taunts, costumes, stages etc.

    Using SP as a currency is an idea. It will require work and modifications though. There are many possibilities such as tournaments which have an entrance fee which could be used. I'd actually be happier for an oldschool version of finishing arcade mode or using characters some amount of times to unlock characters.

    I guess Good Games/Nice Fight is like a positive version of RQs that doesn't actually add anything.
     
  8. HarlequinRogue

    HarlequinRogue Well-Known Member

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    I'm actually pretty happy with how the disconnect/ragequit hell system works now.

    Allowing reports is hugely abusable and an automatic system would be best.

    The Coin system in SFxT actually discourages RQs despite all the complaints.

    The problem is that each player's card data is really easily manipulated. I think it would be better that effort be put into more content rather than overhauling the (online) system and trying to punish players.
     
  9. HarlequinRogue

    HarlequinRogue Well-Known Member

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    Evil Ryu
    s.P: cl.HP (special cancellable)
    db+p: cr.LP (special cancellable)
    df+p: cr.HP (special cancellable)
    f+p: Zugai Hasatsu (overhead)

    s.K: far s.HK
    db+k: cr.MK (special cancellable)
    df+k: cr.RH (sweep)
    f+k: Senbukyaku (hopkick, cancellable to Tatsumaki)

    j.P: j.HP
    j.K: j.MK (crosses over, needs hitstun buff)
    j.dK: Tenmakujinkyaku (divekick, like Akuma's)


    Hadouken (Hard): qcf+p/sp/qcf+sp
    Shakunetsu Hadouken (Hard): hcb+p/d+sp/hcb+sp
    Tatsumaki Zankuukyaku (Light): qcb+k/b+sp/qcb+sp
    Tatsumaki Zankuukyaku (Air) (Hard): qcb+k/sp/qcb+sp (Works like Ryu's)
    Shoryuken (Hard): dp+p/df+sp/dp+sp
    Ryosokyaku (Medium): hcf+k/f+sp/hcf+sp
    Ashura Senkuu (Far/Kick): uf+sp and ub+sp

    Back Throw

    Super
    Raging Demon: P,P,f,K,SP

    Ultra
    Messatsu Gohadou (U1): qcfx2+sp


    I actually quite like Evil Ryu. He's like akuma with combos but with worse teleport and no air fireballs.
     
  10. VaroFN

    VaroFN Well-Known Member

    Sep 28, 2011
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    I'm arguing about Thunder Bolt because it just doesn't feel right having one special move as only SP-off input when you still have one SP input without any move. IDK if it would mess with the dp motion that much.

    You can't be serious here. There's no way anybody would be happier with the RQ crazyfest we have in Volt. Of course those guys RQing all day deserve quite a big punish!

    An automated proccess could penalize people that "RQd" by receiving a call, opening by error a notification and so on. It would need like a limit of RQs for a given time, and if surpassed, bring down the gavel.

    The coin system of SFxT sucks. It doesn't discourage RQs. If you're going to lose, you lose a credit. If you RQ you lose a credit. The only thing you lose is the SP earned after finishing a match. People still RQ on the first match or wait until the third to RQ without any problems. You don't get to see as much RQs because the game doesn't have runaways Akumas or spammers Sagats. Turtling, spamming and some other silly things doesn't work here, so the only character really annoying is Hugo, but once you get the hang of it he doesn't seem as annoying as Zangief in Volt grabbing limbs, so still there aren't RQs due to characters. RQs there are just by defeating the same guy a lot, doing a double perfect and such, and that doesn't have to do with coins.
     
  11. HarlequinRogue

    HarlequinRogue Well-Known Member

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    The move in itself is quite unique. I can't think of any examples of the top of my head of a fireball motion character having a charge move.

    RQ hell exists and is pretty nifty.

    Everyone will always complain about any RQ system since it'll never work 100%. There are many alternatives, but there are very varied and can be quite hard to implement.
     
  12. HarlequinRogue

    HarlequinRogue Well-Known Member

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    #892 HarlequinRogue, Sep 3, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2013
    Gen
    Mantis Style:
    s.P: s.HP (special cancellable)
    s.K: s.MK (special cancellable)
    db+p: cr.MP (special cancellable)
    df+p: cr.HP (long poke)
    db+k: cr.LK (rapidfire, special cancellable)
    df+k: cr.HK (sweep)
    j.p - j.HP
    J.K - j.MK (crossup)
    s.HP, s.MK (Target combo, special cancellable)

    Hyakurenko (Medium): px3.
    EX Hyakurenko: spx3
    Gekiro (Hard): dp+k/f or df+sp/dp+sp (press K or SP for followup)
    Change Stance: dx2+sp or b+sp

    Super
    Zanei (Medium): qcfx2+p

    Ultra
    Zetsuei (U1): qcfx2+sp or meter

    Crane Style:
    s.P: s.HP (underhand)
    b+P: s.MP (overhead)
    s.K: s.HK (doublekicks)
    j.K: j.MK (crosses over)
    j.dk or fk: Shakudan (Target combo)
    J.P: j.HP
    db+p: cr.MP (special cancellable)
    df+p: cr.HP
    db+k: cr.LK
    df+k: cr.HK

    Jyasen (Hard): Charge b, f+p/Charge b, b+sp
    EX Jyasen (Hard): Charge b, f+sp

    Oga - Charge d, then ub, u or up+k/Charge d, d+sp then ub, u or up/Charge d, then ub, u or up+sp (The UB vs UF dictates which wall he flies to. Just before he touches the wall, if he's holding towards the wall, he harmlessly lands just next to it. If it's neutral, he does a divekick at opponent. If it's at the opposite wall, he divekicks past opponent. If he's holding up, he flies upward instead, with a forward dive kick, straight down divekick, or backward divekick option, or just sails part harmlessly (keep holding up or neutral). Yep, it's a pain in the ass to control, even more complicated than Claw.)
    Sudden Stop: b (during Oga)
    Close Kick: d or neutral (during Oga)
    Far Kick: f or df (during Oga)
    Ceiling Kick: u (during Oga)
    Falling Kick: d (During Ceiling Kick)
    Close Range Kick Right: df or f (During Ceiling Kick)
    Close Range Kick Left: db or b (During Ceiling Kick)

    Change Stance: dx2+sp or sp

    Super
    Jyakoha: qcfx2+k

    Ultra
    Ryukoha (U1): qcbx2+sp or b+meter
     
  13. HarlequinRogue

    HarlequinRogue Well-Known Member

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    Next chars:
    Guy
    Hakan
    Ibuki

    Also, feel free to talk about or discuss anything we have already gone over
     
  14. VaroFN

    VaroFN Well-Known Member

    Sep 28, 2011
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    Alex in 3S (although I know his moveset from TvC) and Abel in SFxT. Alex has both QCF + P-like attacks and charge attacks, while Abel has all specials from AE and Shoulder Tackle, an attack that resembles his FA attack. It wouldn't surprise me to see Shoulder Tackle again in an upcoming game where FA wouldn't exist. Its medium version is very nasty since it has armor in active frames, travels a nice distance and on hit it leads to some tricky mindgames.

    We don't need a system that works 100%. Heck, even 1% would be enough. Right now Volt just doesn't punish RQs in any level. People who RQ don't get lost matches and since SP points are useless they don't care about not getting some after finishing a match. The only thing that they'll get is a number next to quits in their cards, and that's still not enough. Automated system that bans people if they RQ a lot, better RQ recognition... Anything would be better than the system that we currently have... because we don't have any system at all. Even SFxT has better recognition for RQs (they still get lost matches), and you can even continue your battle with the AI, which IMO is better than the way we have in Volt because it doesn't feel as stupid (BAM, "you got disconnected" message appears and you return to the menu like nothing happened) and you still earn BP/SP points from the match. And what's more important, you can still save the replay without relying on gliches.
     
  15. HarlequinRogue

    HarlequinRogue Well-Known Member

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    So out of some 60-70 unique Street Fighter characters (excluding EX) you found 2 exceptions only one of which is in an actual Street Fighter game. But hey if you want to look at crazy stuff:
    -in XvsF Street Fighter chars with charge moves hard qcf+3p/3k specials.
    -in Alpha 3, Juni's Spiral Arrow is a charge move (that can be done in the air), but she retains the Hooligan Combination motion. Oh she also has a 360 motion grab
    -Chun Li's fireball has been a charge move and a 'fireball' input move. Many times she has had charge moves and hcb/hcf moves
    -Both appearances of Gen he has charge moves in Crane and a dp motion move in Mantis

    And all this is a justification for Thunder Bolt to have an SP assist option?
    Could this post be any more wrong?

    Once you reach 3 or more disconnects on your card, you will only be matched up against other people with 3 or more disconnects. This is RQ hell and once you get that number down you'll be matched against everyone else.

    If you keep quitting, you will lose BP.

    Next time do your research instead of trying to be a smartass. And don't give me crap about how you didn't know because you only play SFxT yada yada
     
  16. VaroFN

    VaroFN Well-Known Member

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    You're not better than those guys in ranked. Go on, keep making rude posts. They are as entertaining as the salty messages. Otherwise learn to respect people.
     
  17. HarlequinRogue

    HarlequinRogue Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes, the classic Ad Hominem attack. AKA, I have no argument and please stop drawing attention to my poorly thought out and silly remarks which have been rebutted and torn to shreds.
     
  18. User58394

    User58394 Well-Known Member

    Oct 23, 2011
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    I dunno, but I think Thunderbolt should have charge then sp or whatever.

    It's odd, just having a character without an SP motion for something.

    I mean, it's not like you give Cody more special magic powers for having an incredibly bad moveset and backdash.
     
  19. HarlequinRogue

    HarlequinRogue Well-Known Member

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    #899 HarlequinRogue, Sep 6, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2013
    I was having a hard time fitting Thunder Bolt in and didn't want the move to be too close to anything else, especially since it's a seldom used move. It's lot like it's hard to do the movement and having a charge d+sp input isn't very different from a charge d, u+k input

    Bison has manual teleports and there aren't shortcuts for HHS/Lightning Legs style moves
     
  20. tognesimo

    tognesimo Well-Known Member

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    We must do a selection of wich characters Capcom may introduce! Certain char like Yuri and guy are impossible with this engine! And this petition is going to be boring!
     

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