Another possible suggestion for Makoto. Reduced recovery on fukiage, allowing her to do FA3, fukiage, dash, fukiage. Thoughts?
You know I'll welcome any buff for Makoto, but that would make FADC after Fukiage even more useless. Make Makoto's Fukiage juggle more so she can use normals after that.
Another change for Makoto: make the distance between both chars after her current throw smaller. Right now her throw is just too bad: not only because it doesn't knockdown so you can't make a setup or anything, but also because it puts the other char in an advantage since it pushes the other char far. It's not like you'll play zoning with Makoto right? The distance after throw should be enough to hit the opponent with cr.HP. Otherwise I don't see the point behind her throw unless you want to throw the opponent to the corner.
And juggling with normals? This isn't SFxT. I don't even get what that would accomplish, her standard 1 bar punishes after fukiage already do substantial damage.
Exactly. No one FADC's after Fukiage, and that's because the only thing you can do from ground after Fukiage is... Fukiage. And Hayate. By making Fukiage, Fukiage possible from ground (a thing you can already do as AA though) you're not only killing the purpose behind EX Fukiage, but also behind FADC after Fukiage. With juggling with normals I don't mean doing something like Fukiage, st.MK xx Hayate, but something like Fukiage, st.MK (resets).
I don't know what your point is. Why are you unsatisfied with Makoto's current options after fukiage? She has a ton of them and they do massive damage. Whatever weaknesses she may have, her AA damage output isn't one of them. I don't think there's a character that hits harder than her off an anti-air. For 1 bar she does 356 damage, and for 2 bars she does 438 damage.
I never said I wasn't happy with her damage output. My point is: other characters get a move called "SRK" that can be used by just forward+SP which kills any pressure. What does Makoto have? A move that can only be used against airborne characters. Answer me this: what do you see more often, guys using SRK as AA or as anti-pressure/panic option? Makoto doesn't have any tool to avoid pressure. Once you don't get enough time to use cr.HK/Fukiage, you're done. Back dash is your only good option. EX Chop you say? If the opponent jumps, you're done. SRK would kill that jump in that case. There's just no way Makoto will be "top tier" in the update with such buffs. No matter what, unless you give her something really powerful there's no way she'll be at the same level of the shotos from this game (and Zangief). If this: -Less recovery on st.HP -Faster cr.HK --Sliiiiightly faster walkspeed is enough to make her better, then why is her low tier? It isn't like sliiiiightly faster walkspeed will help her that much. Nothing from that list really improves one of her weakness: wake up. With Makoto you will always play safe and avoid mindless rushdown. With other characters you can go nuts if you have 2 bars.
This change makes no sense. Why would you randomly change a move with 2 distinct hits into 2 hits that scale differently? j.MP actually has terrible priority. It's fairly slow (7 frames in AE) needs to be done in advance and not to mention as an air to air... That would involve drastically changing his recovery frames after it. As is Honda has quite a few safe jump setups and good oki game. Bison is getting his hitbox fixed? Also, the problem isn't the hitbox of Chun and Guile's ultras. The problem is characters walking next to them with big hurtboxes and walking into the ultra. So I can save 50GB of replays on my 8GB device and then delete the 50GB of replays to make my iPhone 58GB? There's a reason for a limited number of replays... Autosave though as an options sounds fine Suggestions have been made for Super xx Ultra and his st.HK to be changed to his st.MK. As for different strength special moves, you know that was only used in the first Street Fighter? If you implement it for DJ, why wouldn't you do this for the rest of the cast? I think this creates unneeded complexity. Just because a combo only works on some cast members doesn't make this a reason why it should work on all of them. It is a st.HP and giving her less pushback on moves can be dangerous because of her command grab Fukiage is already jump cancellable. As you said, it already has a tonne of options after it. You can follow it up with a normal already. If you gave it more juggle points, you would be doing 3 fukiages in a combo. Noted The reason no one FADCs Fukiage is because you can only FADC on hit and since it can't be blocked in the air, it either whiffs or connects. It's like Makoto is a harder character to play. There is this thing that the majority of the cast has to use called blocking. It's also like she has to be played in a different style from the rest. I never said that those were the only changes for makoto, but we are considering what changes would not make her obnoxious like she is in AE. I already think her Ultra is pretty crazy, 510 damage off a command grab or Tsurugi against a grounded opponent and there is no execution errors with that like in AE. Not to mention it is also the 2nd fastest non-grab ultra in the game. The only faster one is Blanka's and I can tell you which one is better (technically, in volt, both are 2 frame ultras). I think you overestimate the power of mashed shoryukens in the game and underestimate the power of Makoto. DROQQA and I both agree that it is hard to find subtle buffs for Makoto because it be easy to make her possibly too good
Nope, yun is living proof that different versions can implemented with the tap or hold system. Dee Jay's light and hard sobats have quite the difference; one kick is substantially more different than two kicks. Light Sobat and Medium Sobat are night and day, and they can actually help his game, forgot why though. Yun - Light Palm = Feint, Hard Palm/Medium Palm is da palm.
I didn't say it couldn't be implemented. My problems were: -Where do we draw the line for giving all moves light/med/hard versions depending on how long you hold the button? -This is outdated -Unnecessary complexity and too much room for error. Light Double Rolling Sobat is mainly used as a safe poke at the end of a block string. His versions are quite similar, and not as distinct as say, light/medium/hard thunder knuckle
True, fair enough. After some testing, it seems that the reason you can't do this combo on most characters is not because of the pushback from st. hp. I think the "problem" is that in Volt, Hayate Cancels do not negate pushback. That is, st. hp, hayate cancel will leave you at the same distance from your opponent as just st. hp. This is not true in AE. Would be nice for this to be changed with an update, but that might be asking a lot. It's not really necessary, but opens up Makoto's mixup game a bit more. Allowing her to feint normals to stay in karakusa range might not be the worst thing.
@HR And what do you already get with j.MP? Ultra. A damn Ultra after an air move without any bars. j.MP is already good, it doesn't need SRK after that. j.MP, SRK would deal 230 damage. Even while it would only be possible after a diagonal jump at mid-screen, that's a lot. No, Bison isn't getting the Ultra's hitbox "fixed". I misread the list of changes. But well, big hurtbox you say? Makoto has the smallest hitbox of the game, on par with Yun's. And if you walk into Chun's Ultra from behind there are some frames where it can still hit you. It's not like those frames make her ass active right? (No dirty jokes here pls). And about Guile it's just stupid that his Ultra can hit from behind too. Just fix that and make it so once the first hit of the Ultra hits, the second also hits. There are some moves (Ultras and normals) that should get a hitbox fix. There's no reason behind limited number of replays. Each rep is around 170 KB. Making number of replays limited is like making number of photos and videos in the camera app limited. Then I see no reason behind FADC after Fukiage but well, Zonk is going to be FADC-able in Ultra. IDK if you want to add it to Cody's change list. In AE she's "obnoxious" not only because she has more normals but also because the game is different from Volt. In AE you have to think "should I buff SRK or not?". Here it's like "forward+SP!! forward+SP!!!". Only the SP Cooldown change in the list would really balance the game, not only between SP/non-SP players but also between chars. Maybe you should note that the SP Cooldown affects anything, from blockstun and hitstun to knockdown. Here are other changes for Makoto: F+LK as forward + K -> reset after EX Hayate in corner and Kara Cancel. jN.HP -> should improve Makoto's defense options. jab as b-down+P -> she doesn't have any blockstrings, and it would be another way to improve setups for Karakusa. And another change: if engine (graphics) won't be changed (I hope it will though), at least fix Makoto's jump animation graphics.
Shouldn't Fukiage's hitbox be big enough to make things like st.MP xx Hayate, EX FA, Fukiage possible if the opponent jumps after the EX FA?
balrog/vega both have moves that tapping or holding make them different. Of course they are not the same specials, they are completely different all together. hold for balrog means overhead, or dash low mash. for vega hold is sky high claw. tapping for balrog is dash punch, and uppercut. tapping for vega is izuna drop. I understand your point. But what if holding for deejay, is his fierce version of sobat and he has to commit to it just like balrog and vega do for their specials. And tapping would be his low version and holding after the first tap wouldnt work rather he has to commit to his low sobat.
LOL, no. Fukiage is not a srk. It's not supposed to behave like an srk. It's a specific anti-air that has to be timed. Makoto is not a shoto.
I don't think SRKs were intended to be get-out-of-jail free cards though, because it seems like it was the only useful anti air in the earlier SF games.
