I really dislike seismo in Volt and I rarely use it. It's slooow and is really just for some chip on wakeup. EX Seismo is a different matter. With Viper, as with most characters I like to keep people most of the time at a comfortable midrange where I feel I am most effective
true that, Seismo alone is pretty bad... but you can always fake it and bait for a reaction, like a jump-in or whatever! I don't think there is any move in Volts that is not-worth-doing for 1 exception, Yun's 2nd Target Combo crMP -> crHP... I have used Yun for hundreds of times and never had I use that move once in a real match
That move is useful in super mode and focus breaker ad it is 2 hits, also to creat some space when oppenent tries to bait a up kick you do cr.hp instead to push them back.
Hmmm, Viper's Standing Heavy Kick is pretty shit because unless you KNOW you're gonna stun someone with the lolhuge stun on it, seismo will beat the jump-stuff that'd trade with it, and ex seismo (timed right, obviously), can actually counterhit, I think (I swear I've seen Latif do it). As to Seismo... With all due respect, as it is, I know you can kick my ass in this game, but I'm so sure that it's a LOT safer due to sjc. Basically, all seismos have 24 startup frames (ex is 19 startup, less active) and can be cancelled into feint @f9, which means that reaction jump will be nowhere close to even reaching the top of the arc. Feint is a total of 14 framez (including the cancelled portions) - so you're "lacking", so basically you're at -5 right now - this is potentially bad, because if they've jumped already and are in the process of smacking you, you're gonna eat something. But you can actually cancel feint (and seismo and all your other things) on active frame one. So basically, you have this 1 frame window where you can't do shit, and then you're airborne, after feinting. You're also superjumping, which is nice. But then, you can actually cancel super jump directly into another move during that one "floating" frame when you're vulnerable. EX Seismo, invulnerable for 9 frames during startup. HTK, invincible for 6 frames and unthrowable for another. So basically if you feint a seismo, sjc, and burn meter, then you're pretty much invulnerable for 9 frames -> LOLbig combo/jumpin punishes. Now, let's talk about letting seismo go. 24f startup -> you're committed and they block. You can sjc while they're in blockstun so fast that there exists a twitch-killer blockstring. Seismo (blocked) -> sjc -> EX seismo. This is a true blockstring. Against every. single. character. Because you're actually plus! Now, let's say you don't like your odds, and you actually just decide to super jump back. SJC has 11 frames of landing recovery. Unless you burn kick. Then you have 3. So if you whiff burn kick since you're gonna loljump at the other guy since you're lolviper, then they have to hit shoryuken right as you land, or right before. If you hit them, that's a blockstring. Don't believe me? Set the CPU to allblock, smack akuma with a burn kick and watch as your panic-take-to-the-skies-instant-burn knocks him out of his super. Basically this is also why Viper players get blown up. Why ever block when you're plus more than half the time? Also, damn it Latif, I wanted you to win so damn badly in Evo. I didn't even care that you beat Daigo, you roflstomped Poongko Edit: quick stuff, if you don't believe that Volt F-data for Viper is the same -> Fierce Feint Ultra Fierce is +2 on hit. That means that after the Feint, you're plus -> otherwise the Ultra firsthit (3rd frame) won't combo.
Except Volt runs at 1/3 of the frames as AE. So there are random rounding issues. e.g. st.HP, cr.MP is a combo with Cody in AE but not in Volt. Also, in volt, cr.LK/LP are buffed in that you can special/super cancel them if they are rapidfired. st.HK I like because it's a slightly safer option for aa (albeit smaller active hitbox). I actually use it a lot for spacing for her safe jump or to set up her unblockable. Oh and Super Jump does have 11 frames of recovery but it will be 3f instead if you do any air move, including normals. Our point is Seismo is only good at 2/3+ screen range because if it whiffs it really sucks because you are very open. You can't combo into it close up unless off a CH. And with SP assist, it's so much easier to be an ass and run around with Burn Kicks and cr.MK xx m TK rather than bother to learn how to Feint, SJC and other more advanced techniques
Ahh, crap. I guess the higher execution characters get the shaft somewhat, in this exchange. (Or at least characters that rely on stringing 1F things). Wait, wait. Hold it. Does that mean that all the "unblockables" I've been hitting with LOLfrequency for Cammy and Sakura are just because whoever I'm play really sucks? dang it.
Well higher execution does exist, but there are small differences. Like Akuma can do far HK, s.HP xx stuff and cr.MK xx Tiger Knee is a combo. Most links and cancels from AE do carry over, but best to test stuff. Also, don't forget that we are closer to pre-Super Street Fighter 4 so we still live in a world of OP Sagat, Cammy has no height restriction on her Dive Kick and Ryu's HP shoryuken is still FADCable. Pretty much most 'tech' didn't port over. No glitchy unblockable ultras or setups apart from Viper's unique one (more later). Safe jumps didn't port over well due to the rounding of frames so they are all 'new' so to speak. Also, we have crazy charge buffering in Volt. So you can actually do Sonic Boom, Flash Kick as a combo. (Hard as hell, but technically possible) Pretty much everything that is currently known about Volt is known by people here. We don't necessarily have explanations for everything or precise frame data but we have theories why we think things happen in Volt. Now, Viper's unblockable is when you hit someone with EX Seismo at max range. Even if they are holding back and with autoblock you can still hit them. The setup is do a throw, then s.HK and it's about that distance that the EX Seismo will be unblockable
Wooo, okay, wow, I don't think I've ever felt as legitimately beaten as I did in some of the rounds of that set (the general lack of OH OKAY LEMME DP NOW) When the set started (other than against Cody, which I think I only messed up 2-3 inputs on), I had a bunch of really really stupid errors that could have really been avoided had I practiced a shade more. Also, then there were some moments of panic in which I'd do something, have it fail entirely, and be like "why the hell did I just into..." Tried to play a really conservative Viper in most of the matches - going for the Seismos, etc. Ultimately, I felt really really helpless against your Yun, which is absolutely amazing And against Vega - no experience and also, damn, that reset that took round 1. Damn. Sorry about the tiny bits of lag - my internet isn't hyper super duper reliable (thanks Verizon D: ) - I tried to just denote that I wasn't doing anything but jumping straight up and not super jumping or seismoing near the end. That Fei reset is so cool! - you caught me on the backdash with him so many times I felt like I was being kicked around by Fuudo or something. Was that Ultra in the round 1 a missed input? xD And your point is completely 100% right - your Viper won easily. I think I hit like, 3 times as many buttons as you did xD but it didn't really matter, because oh my god I'm going to have a debilitating fear of corners forever T_T Edit: I'm a fan of the David Sirlin "I will do this 73 times, then something different in the 74th second" thing. I think I really need to work on getting out of pressure situations.
I like it when people agree with me! You'll do swell here! After that first match I felt you playing super conservative, starting 90% of the rounds with a backdash, so I figured you'd do that so I went to pressure you right from the beginning. Part of what I see with AE players is a reluctance to mash srk on wakeup. It's fine to do in moderation in volt and with someone like Viper, you have other good options like EX Burn Kick which is only punishable on block by shoryukens. With Fei, you weren't and can't really use focus so I was bullying you a bit with his chicken wing. The random ultra was because I swear I was going to get that 3rd hit of the aa chicken wing and get the ultra. I was a bit too keen on the ultra press. I think my general advice is figure out the meta game so to speak. Go see what common reactions are and find some setups that suit you (or ask!) After that you can work more on footsies and mindgames. Volt is different from AE in the general style I feel. Autoblock and SP assist and 1 touch ultras makes it very mashy
I try to peg what kind of player I'm going against and work my strategy around that. I had you pegged as an experienced player that likes to backdash, stay out of it and not mash. And you'll also likely fall for the same trick 2 or 3 times in a row, thinking I won't repeat it (I love when I throw some guy 3 times in a row because he doesn't expect it. The scrubby ken will just mash dp after the first time). Viper has heaps of ways to get our of pressure, much more than just dp, FADC. You would've noticed that I did a lot of EX Burn Kick on wakeup for example
Ahhh, I see. I always thought the third chicken wing hit could be hit confirmed I think I forgot EX burn even existed for a while - pretty much because I've been taught really bad habits by yolo uppercutters :\ I thought of maybe using EX seismo several times, but the one time I actually did try it, it got stuffed xD Thanks so much for the set, by the way. Hopefully we'll be able to play again soon. xD
Anybody home? I've been playing SFxT so much I think I'm terrible at volt again which isn't a change. Was there a tournament on Thursday this week? It has been slipping my mind.
EX Seismo is also a wakeup option. It gives you some invinc but it only hits grounded opponents. Actually, Hard Thunder Knuckle is viable unlike AE. It won't get stuffed completely but will trade quite a bit Tournaments have been on every Thursday. Yesterday was week 15! Bracket: http://challonge.com/revolt131017
Seems like HarlequinRogue found a new best friend. And I thought we had enough with the DoctaXion bromance...
I'm all about helping the new players develop and learn. Speaking of which, you need to practice more. All your secondaries are free to me
Heyheyheyheyhey. There can never be enough brodeo in here. You're just jealous. ;-P Interesting all the Viper tech flying around here. I've always kinda wanted to play her but I've done little more than mess around with her. She has a ton of ways to combo into Ultra which is cool. Also, welcome JohnathanLUNG. What's the LUNG part of your name for?
