Nope, both lariats and spd lose to meaty palm. Yeah the damage is in giefs favour, but not by as much as you'd think.
You don't have to approach gief. Yun can just build meter all day whiffinf palms and gief can't do shit. The footsies are pretty even between the two, and yun can even safely fish for super with safe shoulders, and easily punish whiffed specials for meter building with lunge punch. No, yun can't just jump in on gief for free but who can? If he could just jump in for free it'd be a really bad matchup for gief. And yun does good damage. He gets an easy 320 damage off a jump in with no links needed. And gief gets what, like 260? Yun also gets a knockdown into meaty palm off every combo where gief doesn't. And then there's his super. He also has better anti air than gief. Uppercut works every time, whereas lariat sometimes loses to jumpins which means easy damage for yun.
It's a terrible matchup for yun. It's like playing cammy with a worse uppercut, worse damage, worse speed, worse uppercut, worse ultra/super, no meaty/ far spiral arrows... Felix hated that matchup Jumping in on gief is doable. But require quite specific timing. Also, SPD has greater range than palm.
Except that he can do safe chip where cammy can't, and he can pressure gief on wakeup where cammy can't (meaty spiral arrows aren't safe against gief, meaty cr hp can get blown up by lariat or ex spd, dk gets blown up by lariat), and he has a much more useful super, and he doesn't do less damage than cammy. Cammy-gief isn't really that bad, but it's worse than yun-gief. EDit: And he can safely build meter really fast. The only thing cammy has on yun in this matchup is uppercut fadc to get out of trouble on wakeup and it's easier to punish whiffed lariats.
Lets agree to disagree. Try abel-gief. THAT is a truly terrible matchup. That and cammy-sim are possibly the worst matchups in the game.
Viper-sim is worse. Guile Makoto is about 8.5-1.5 fyi. Other terrible matchups? Akuma v Zangief is like 9-1. In fact, pure runaway akuma vs a slow character like E Honda is pretty bad. Personally for me, I am about 1-9 in the Guile mirror
Go for it dude! Thanks alot! :-D I'm back home in London too yay! Gonna get some serious Volt action going! Now you're a real man it's time for circumcision. Surgery performed by Leonel, holding a blade inside his mouth ;-W
When I was playing lots of Abel I only ever came close *ONCE* to beating Cyrus Gief. The sweetest revenge was when I played him with Gief vs his Abel XD He was practising Abel for a secondary for tourney. When I play a zoning character vs a friend who's playing big + slow character, I always try to keep zoning to absolute minimum, even if I get completely destroyed its still more fun than running away playing a FPS game.
I disagree. 8.5 and 9 means that the other character can't win. I should remind you that Green Hand pushes Gief forward very fast. You can spam it and punish runaway Akuma who keep spamming Zanku, since its recovery time is huge. Then if he changes to Hadouken/Shanuketsu, keep jumping, and at corner keep the distance since he'll teleport and you'll be able to get a free command grab/Ultra. Gief doesn't have bad matchups. Makoto vs Guile can't be 8.5 either. Remember that Makoto's backdash beats almost anything at wakeup, and Axe Kick has high priority against air normals.
No. Just no. Teleport>green hand. Only noobs spam zanku hadouken and get banished. The slightly better noobs get their red fireballs punished. Again only the inexperienced will teleport into a grab. The key is not abusing the same moves as doing the same patterns. Gief certainly has bad matchups. Try playing gief guile. Or gief sagat. Guile v makoto is really bad. But apparently every other makoto here acknowledges this except you. Your blocking skills need to be insanely good with makoto to stand a chance. And you are incorrect on both counts. Back dash does not beat a crossover and tsurugi does not beat air throw. Maybe I should clarify though. Playing the matchup optimally from guile point of view is 85%. And it's really easy to. It takes much more effort from makotos to be able to deal with guile on that level. Let me also add that a backdash will not get you out of any meaty wakeup attack. Timing can very easily be altered to do that. By definition, a 8.5-1.5 doesn't mean they can't win. It means on average they win 15% of the time in that matchup
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15% and not winning at all is almost the same. Gief doesn't have bad matchups. Sure, the other player can spam FBs all day, but once the Gief player scores a knockdown, the other player is in big trouble. What you're calling bad matchups for Gief aren't bad matchups in general but just bad matchups for Gief. I won't get into numbers but 9-1 Akuma-Gief? No way. And just like timing can be changed to punish backdashes, gameplay can be changed to beat defensive/offensive Guile players with Makoto.
(corner only) Axe Kick (CH), Axe Kick, st.HP, Hayate Cancel, cr.MP, EX Hayate, Fukiage, EX Axe Kick -> 569 damage.
I do the same thing. I don't find zoning all that fun to begin with, but know it's basically necessary against good competition. Against other TA members though, I try to stay away from it and focus more on having fun matches. I'm pretty sure most people here play similarly against me too.
Who's a Fei expert here? Master TenOnez? I wonder how safe are rekkas? Or is it distance dependent? 1st hit should be relatively safe from mostly everything??? sometimes even my 1 hit rekka is punsihed... (I think my opponent was mashing tiger knee) but I'm having trouble punishing opponent's 2nd hit rekka!!! maybe that is becoz I don't mash?
As far as I know, 1st Rekka isn't safe on block. If you use it at max distance, it will keep you safe from Ryu's SRK and such, but frame advantage would be the same.
