But that means you havent understand mookens post. Its not character A can beat Character B but the sum of all the matchups. Ends up in the conclusion sagat has higher matchups numbers than cammy does even if cammy can beat sagat. In AE seth is top tier, but his matchup vs akuma its actually on akumas favor. Akuma is still lower tier than seth, but he has higher chance to beat seth in the matchup. Meaning vs all the characters Seth has a better chance of winning than akuma does even though the difference isnt much.
Im not a sakura player its just some numbers i came up with, thats why im asking sakura players, like ddroqqa, xion, psxsquall, farmer they play sakura pretty well so they should have a more accurate view of the numbers. I can tell chun-li, viper and makoto numbers cause i play those characters the most.
You misunderstand my post Captain. Not saying Sagat isn't top. He is. Someone said that he has no bad matchups buy I'm saying that Cammy could potentially be a bad matchup for him. I say potentially because I had marathons with berserk who I consider the Gold standard so everyone after him has been pretty easy . Of course Wediafom kicks my butt regularly too.
So whats your number cammy vs sagat? 5.5-4.5 or 5-5 or 6-4 or the other way around were sagat has the advantage?
I think Sakura might be 5.5-4.5 over Honda, possibly 6-4. Headbutt, Sumo Smash both punishable on block with Shouken. Her delayed fireball lets her anti-air jump-ins with cr.HP. Playing from 1/2 screen is where she's best vs Honda. If Honda gets in, it just takes one correct guess on an incoming wake-up from Honda, and she can create space again.
If each player here from TA post the matchup numbers from their specific characters we can come up with TA tier List like they do in eventhubs for AE. Were the community gave the opinion. Current active TAers Harley slrc can post the dee-jay guile numbers App can post the cammy numbers Psx can post the bison numbers Tenonez photanics can post balrog numbers CaptY, Mooken viper numbers Wedia berserk can post sagat numbers Tenonez KB can post yun numbers Nashberry ddroqa can post makoto numbers (we can also ask our youtube friend funkydruid for makoto) And so on ...... I can set up a spreadsheet to fill. Then We come up with avarage for each player-character.
And we might as well use Snooper's numbers as a starting point, and go from there. When/if people see really bad off numbers, we can adjust.
Yea, in the end each person from TA sf4 thread, that is active and that plays a certain character, has to check it out.
I can ask a few members of my BN team too if u want, like n3ro for viper, insanity for sagat an javi for ryu
It may be best to just walk through Snooper's and fix the ones we disagree with. A good deal of the work is already done. Plus, I think most members here have played with just about every character and will have something to add to the discussion (not just focusing on their mains).
True but the more you play 1 character the more accurate your answer will be. I will take the example the numbers posted for sakura, they seems off dont they? Cause i dont play sakura as much as i play viper and chun-li
I really enjoy the Sim/Ryu matchup but am still rusty. I think Ryu, Sagat and Cammy are my favorite matchups for Sim, which is a bit strange.
But that's part of the fun of the discussion. Obviously people talking about their mains carry more weight though.
I was just going to ask you about Sim, and whether he has any instant overheads with his j.HP. Apparently it works, though I've only tested it on Sagat. Do you know off-hand if it's character specific or if it works on everyone? edit: tried it on sakura and cammy, they seem to be tiny enough. nifty. works on a back-jump too, from about half-screen.
Oh and i assume everyone knows that a 10-0 matchup is impossible right? Just to remind you guys 10-0 would mean Character A can never beat Character B on the same skill level. So it should be impossible.
OK Kiddos. This topic seems hot right now. Since I am off from work today, so here is the bible from Master Farmer This is the general list for everyone at any level Super: SAGAT, BISON, GUILE, RYU High: CAMMY, GIEF, AKUMA, VIPER Mid High: KEN, BLANKA, HONDA, FEI Mid: ROG, SIM, VEGA, ABEL, Low: SAKURA, YUN, CHUN, DJ, CODY, MAKOTO Me, as the guy who plays 21.5 chars out of 22 I dont feel comfortable with Yun that much. There are only 2 categories with CAMMY, GUILE, AKUMA, RYU, GIEF, SAGAT, VIPER, BISON as high tiers and the rest as low tiers. Reasons why? If you know your characters inside out there's always a good chance you will win just have to work a little harder. This is the Full Evaluation with Details SAKURA: Do well in NON-LAG environment, long, extended and heavy combos. walking speed moderate. Skill level required: High. Advantages: 2 Ultras, many links into combos, frame traps with tatsu at wake up, otoshi to counter fbs, otoshi to escape or mix up the mind trick, couple of FB options good ex upper cut giving enough time to fdac away as needed. Disadvantages: only 1 not-so-effective AA, has the almost dead corner when crossed over, standing p can be used as AA but only to trade. upper cut requires an optimal range, dropping combos = dead , tends to do not so well against wrestlers. Strategy: Baiting and try to make the best out of every combo, poking when up against wrestlers then AA when needed. Must be active on the ground and air. RYU: An old timer from the SF series, definitely an easy pick for beginners. Do well in both defensive or offensive styles, the ability to switch back and forth is enormous for this character. Skill level required: Low to Mid Advantages: Fireballs, recovery time is quite good after fbs or ex fbs, good AA game plan, good neutral jump defense kick, the ex tatsu on ground has no recovery meaning u can go on after that, heavy hitter with good damages and stun level. Disadvantages: very little, mostly comes from the abusive use of fbs, tends to use his priority moves to get out of trouble when they actually get him back into it. like upper cut when the opponent jumps, fireballs at unsafe range, walk back and gives too much space for the aggressor. Strategy:The most dangerous ryus are the ones who know how to work the fb games and neutral jump to stop intruders plus upper cut to ultra when needed, as long as you can keep the opponent on the ground you are winning. remember that ! HONDA: Forget it I aint teach you anything mother trollers Look at him, if your fat and chubby or heavy you can use him. Seriously, due to the weight Honda moves slower but still quite ok. Strategy usage heavily, only 1 or 2 combos. Hard hitter, he doesn't need to kick your ass that often but when he does, it surely hurts. if you like gief and abel but dont like the speed of gief or the flimsy looking of abel Hondas for you Skill level required: Mid to High Advantages: Hard hitter, no combos (both advantage and disadvantage), top notch wake up games, ex headbutts almost invincible, can grab and slam you sometimes, good air attack with light p. neutral jump P is godlike long standing kick to give turtlers something to think of and AA with stand P. Disadvantages: slower than most, not many combos, only few moves, slow and bad dash back, ok dash forward. not too good ultra, but works. non-combos into ultra. has some bad corners of attack. Attack in the straight line format (both good and bad) Strategy: I find Honda most effective as offensive. If you want to master Honda, you need to learn and be good at reversal skill, headbutt u all day baby boo. be fearless at the shotos just come to them and spread the fear if u must play defensive, again, reversal (very important) u need to play sp off first at least. learn his wake up games, and hit box of the moves. BLANKA: This green bean is full of joy, you have to troll people out. if you think of Xion and hows twisted the dude is you can play Blanka Skill leve requiredl: Mid to High Advantages: Fast and Furious, Good dashes, good cross over with K because of the hit box, good with electric charges, ultra can be quite tricky, excellent speed. ex roll bar to escape and you can control where it lands. Good ultra and super to use as AA. Good AA normals, Stand P, Stand forward P, stand K. Disadvantages: Hard to deal with defensive opponents, harder to get in without cross over moves, takes guts to get in. slide P can be used abusively, attack in a straight line format (both good and bad). Hard to be not wild with blanka. Strategy: Play the fools game. Attract the opponent to come to you first then rip him apart, switch strategies back and forth to creates confusion. Use dashes to give some WTF moments cross up all day and back away. Baiting is the key
