I just realised...I'm not sure lower ranked players are MEANT to even see the bosses, according to the game's original design. A few months ago, the general advice was that you needed to be at least rank 6 to attempt taking on Mantis. It's actually the people on this thread who popularised the idea of carrying new players through bosses in order to get them huge amounts of gold much earlier on. In effect, we're accelerating their income and letting them get good equipment much faster. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that Freyr may not actually agree with our stance to ensure newbies aren't "disadvantaged" by not doing any work -- because to begin with, they were never MEANT to be able to reap the rewards from boss fights until they're strong enough to do it themselves. I would still love to give new players a helping hand and get them to the interesting part of the game before they become weary of grinding for equipment, but I think it's important that we keep this in perspective: what we're advocating was probably not part of the game's original design, and the developers and/or other parties may have reasons for wanting to stop us from fast-tracking new players so dramatically.
Oh CRAP, I forgot that I do that too! That would be rather embarrassing if the boss ended up eating me on the basis of something we suggested here x___x
Might very well be true, good point you raise here. I went through the first five stages in offline mode, before I tried online coop. And that only because I hit a difficulty wall with the "Fire in the Hole" stage. I couldn't get past its first level with the equipment I had then. However, there are solutions to this problem. Easiest would be to impose a limit on how many levels difference there can be between players. E.g. a rank 12 cannot be in the same coop game as a rank 1. If rank limits are not option, limiting the amount of cash you get based on player rank vs. boss rank sounds doable, too. Or, add another boss and/or stage that can be used by veterans to teach newcomers the ropes. With big bold signs, saying things like "spawn point, not a good idea to camp here", "this is a good lookout spot" , etc. Or just add a loading screen message, that tells you it is a good idea to practice in solo mode for a while before attempting online. And finally, when I look at the total number of players listed on the GC boards, we folks here are a small drop in a big ocean
Here is a revised sketch of my original idea. Similarly to what was said earlier, there should be something that limits people from. undermining the system, and by reducing penalties to lower ranked players. More detailed is so: First of all: All players, especially lower ranked ones, should have an indicator of what they do, something that measures their effectiveness. More specifically, each rank should have an average DPS quota that should be achieved by said player in order to maintain or increase their score. No matter if there happens to be a camping turtle or *ahem* dancing disco ball, as long as that player can meet his quota of damage, he/she can be able to keep their scores and bonuses up. Moreover, when lower players enter bosses that outmatch them, their "quota" will be adjusted to fit the difficulty relative to their rank. Finally, I say that due to the large amount of freeloaders so recently, we should all have profiles in game, so fellow players can rate positively or negatively, (like a YouTube video) so once a person enters a room, alongside their score, there is a foolproof way of making sure your teammates are reliable.
But players can just rate others negatively even though they are doing the work. A flaw to the ranking is what if I wanted to use a sword.
True that -- and I'd imagine Superion and I will probably tick off QUITE a few other players with our kill-hogging tendencies, so we'd be sure to get a few thumbs down for that Sheinfell mentioned adding the ability to toggle the workload dynamics on or off, which might solve the weaponry concerns that you and Darthguy have about wanting to use weapons other than the chaingun. Now the question is, can Freyr work our suggestions into the game...?
Another thing is voice chat. I read in the mc4 wish list that they didn't want voice chat is that little kids just talk about nothing or other stuff. I would think a list of pre-made messages would be better
Look guys, what we're talking about here is frankly much simpler than it looks... If a player finishes the Double Rages with a sub-1000 kill bonus, there's a problem. All the other layers are great, but I think we're looking for Occam's razor here. Darthguy brings up an excellent point, as does Enjoo. I love using my WB, but then, I'm actually killing things. I don't shoot at the second Rage when it's shield is up, because it doesn't do anything. Person doesn't kill things, bonuses drop precipitously, no Mithril until a threshold is broken, but set low enough that differences in play style are easily accommodated, player gets marked as someone who doesn't kill anything, other players don't unwittingly drag them through big pay-outs. Problem solved. That is all. DBC
I was expecting you to comment on the top half, rather then the simple aspect of ratings Also, it goes alongside your score, so its not exactly the be all end all of the thing
Looks like this thread has some embers burning still which is good I like what you're saying Drummerboycroy...now let's hope Freyr can make an easy update so we can start toasting these creatures again and end each and every game with a smile of satisfaction
I didn't have too much to comment on with regards to the top half of your post because I don't have anything to add -- in principle, it should work with all bosses where a high levelled player can't just simply wipe out the boss in a matter of seconds (i.e. chaingun on Mantis). What's nagging at me is that our suggested solutions are becoming increasingly more complex in design, and therefore most likely harder to implement. The rank-based quota scaling sounds ideal for ensuring vertical equity, but coming up with the numbers for 12 ranks across 5 different bosses sounds like a logistical nightmare. Aaaaanyway...DBC's mention of a freeloader's low bonus gold is a mechanic I'm liking the sound of right now -- that's making use of a mechanism which already exists in the game, and is almost always a surefire sign of a freeloader. No-one quite understands how that bonus is calculated, meaning that it'd be much harder for someone to cheat the mechanism if they haven't a clue how it functions to begin with!
You do have quite a point there. You can't cheat what you don't know. I mean, for the sake of the gameplay, I would rather not know, but in any other case, it would be simply marvelous to have a fully scaled list of how much money one earns in each mode, for each monster killed...
I like these ideas but i have to say that they are too complex to put them in-Game in 1 update, also you can damage the mantis with shield in DB, i have killed jet when she have the shield. Regards
I'm quite certain that you can still damage the Mantis while it's putting its shield up (i.e. the one or two seconds when it's sitting still, doing its roaring taunt), but did you take out the Mantis during the taunt, or afterwards? Because I don't even notice its HP bar moving if I keep shooting at it once it gets up and starts moving again with an active shield. Btw, Asdeasde97, if you haven't already, check your PM inbox -- Sheinfell's also in Europe, and would love to play alongside you Superion: We might have to test it a bit to be sure, but I get the impression that enemies gradually drop more gold the longer you stay alive. They seem to drop very strange amounts of gold as well (i.e. gold drops aren't in multiples of 5 or 10), so if we email Freyr and they'd rather not disclose it, we're going to have to sit down and do some VERY stringent experiments...
Tactics for Fire in the Hole map? Do you folks have any recommendations on how to tackle the map "Fire in the Hole" / Double Rages wave part? I did not find any camping spot. And constantly running around and blasting everything in front of me failed spectacularly. I tried a few times, and always die to some nasty surprise (bomb mushroom being my "favourite") popping out right behind me and tearing me to shreds.
Hi, i have killed the mantis with the shield active, if u put her with shield with very low hp u can kill here even with the shield
Asdeasde97: Thanks, that's a rather handy piece of information Sheinfell: In the central chamber of "Fire in the Hole", there's a large crystal in the center of the room on top of a rock ledge. Stand directly in front of the crystal, and then turn around: you should see two openings (both lead into the same room). Take the right "doorway", and you should see an alcove on the right. Walk into the alcove and position yourself such that you can see back through the entrance you came in, back into the central chamber. If you've found the right place, then this is my favourite camping spot to preserve my HP. In this spot, enemies will spawn towards the other side of the alcove (closer to the central room). If you have the M-27B1, you can easily stop all the enemies from getting close to you, but leave a little bit of room to move from side to side for projectile attacks from the scorpion. Occasionally, you will also have a flying bug spawn to your top left, but the architecture of the map usually causes its fireball to fizzle out. Lastly, there is a spawn point ABOVE you if you look up (there's a cave halfway up the rock pillar). If you're fighting against Double Rages, you will have two plasma slugs spawning from there during the alien rush phase, as well as a scorpion, and possibly one of the spider crawlers too. The main thing is, despite being so close to a few spawn points, standing in this alcove will force enemies to spawn in a certain pattern, from certain directions. Even without the spawn pattern, it's very much possible to take everything out without taking a shred of damage, once you understand how to kill things immediately when they spawn and sidestep projectiles with the M-27B1 (I've actually changed over to the railgun on this map, because I can kill multiple enemies with one shot). Anyway, you might feel a little bit boxed in at first, but it's essentially the ultimate fallback point if you know how to sidestep projectiles and kill things quickly. Incoming bulls may require a little more attention, you can temporarily leave the alcove for the central chamber if you don't feel comfortable taking it on in that small space.
Because I know this is the kind of thing you enjoy researching (), it would be awesome to get confirmation from Freyr one way or the other... Having seen what a Hyperclipped Level 8 M-27 does to an unshielded Rage Mantis eek, and having unloaded on a fully shielded Rage Mantis, for me the difference in DPS is pretty dramatic, but if my shots are registering and I'm not just bleeding very expensive ammo for nothing, that would obviously be good news... DBC
