Isilel and CrazyPossum, I'll address your posts in a while, first I want to tackle the "theme" and SNES comparisons: Josh, glad that you were able to check out the video! As you know I was getting quite pissed at iMovie yesterday, but it's all I've got for editing bits of video right now. I managed to tame the beast at least momentarily Comparisons to the SNES Zelda are not entirely far-fetched! Graphically they have similarities. They both focus on a main character's adventure (Link vs Mineko), and have a story written for them. The worlds they inhabit have a lot of detail and little touches to make them feel more alive. The most glaring difference is that Spirit Hunter Mineko is turn based. The only way you'll even notice the difference is in combat itself- you need to use strategy and items in Mineko to survive, rather than good reflexes in Zelda. When not actively fighting monsters you'd be hard pressed to tell this is turn based Chrono Trigger was one of my most loved RPGs! Of course as a more full blown role playing game, it has much more story and character development than Spirit Hunter Mineko. The events in Mineko's main quest focus on her alone will take place over a matter of a few days of "game-time"... I won't even begin to guess what that'll mean in actual play hours yet, but it will probably be quite a significant number of hours, plus or minus some chunk based on how good a player you are, and if you get a bit lucky with random items. So obviously character development and growth are tough to write into a story that plays out over a few day's time. That combined with the fact that you don't want to get bogged down with dialog that potentially gets repeated in your next run through means Mineko won't have the huge sweeping arcs that Chrono Trigger had. I will say that ultimately the story of "Demon's Reach" will expand to a more "epic" arc that plays out over some number of sequels. You'll learn more about it as you complete this first game. Graphics and sound-wise, Chrono Trigger was a masterpiece that I can only dream of attaining, but I do draw inspiration from it and its story The idea of multiple "paths" to the goal is actually one that I'm working on, and hope to incorporate into Mineko. I'll be back to address more posts and questions soon. Please keep the feedback coming!
Uhg, the trailer music really put me off listening to this game. I strongly dislike gamers taste in music. Please please please go the Shirin or Sword of Fargoal route and put something interesting and fitting in, generic riffing guitars really dont mix well with fantasy settings. Music is so important for setting mood and feeling, I wish designers could all just learn to pair their games to the music. The last trailer showed such a contrast it was off putting. Game looks amazing though, i have full confidence in your game makign abilities, designing, everything... just the music is so irritating for me. Either way though, i trust you'll put in seperate volume sliders for people like me.
Well, I was going to continue answering others, but you bring up an important point I'd like to address: music in this trailer was actually a demo track written by a fan of Rogue Touch early this year. I attached the same track to an earlier video too... More for amusement than to be an indication of the actual in-game soundtrack. In game music has not even begun composition yet, and actually I'm leaning towards *minimal* soundtrack, used to highlight special actions and events. The rest of the game would be filled with environmental sound effects and the sounds of your exploration and combat. Hopefully this addresses your concerns, it will also please the people who prefer to listen to their own music while gaming
The video looks fantastic but there's something there that I'm confused about. On almost all the levels the shadow effect makes me feel I'm looking down on Mineko from a tremendous height. Obviously it could just be my perception and I realize this is early video but I was just wondering about it
Well, given my eternal affinity for Roguelikes and particular appreciation for your Rogue Touch, it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that I was going to keep a close eye on your sophomore project. Looks like you're getting a solid handle on OpenGL, and it's running beautifully so far, so I'm confident the rest of what you've got planned is going to be at least as good, and probably better given that you've still got lots of time to fill it with your ideas and tweaks. I'd say so. Marrying a Roguelike with those types of RPGs ought to garner you a lot of fans from both the console RPG and CRPG crowds, which is a pretty big base. Hell, the majority of the time you hear people praising the NES and SNES is because of its wealth of console RPGs. This game seems to be out to create a Venn diagram of Roguelike fans and console RPG fans with a good 80% overlap. I agree, Paul did a brilliant job on the controls for SoF, and it's how I feel all games of a similar genre should handle. In fact, in beta testing C64 I even laid out Paul's control scheme as being an awesome base around which Manomio's control scheme should be based. (Though I recommended they take it a bit further into a kind of state machine in order to simulate how people use a real joystick.) That's really what will sell it here. Variety, as they say, is the spice of life, and for video games it's the polish that takes a great game and makes it fantastic. I've always said that it's the extra attention paid to the little things that cumulatively make the difference. I love meat. I love potatoes. I love potatoes on my meat. Wait ... no ... no, don't even go there. But anyway interacting with NPCs I think would be an important part of making the game feel like it's more than just a hack 'n slash, as they'll make the player feel like they belong there and give the storyline a concrete sense of progression. However, keeping it relatively sparse (but not too sparse) I think is important too, as those novel-length interactions many console RPGs are notorious for become a frustrating exercise in pointless button mashing as you page through seven dozen "continue" prompts that amount to "The enchanted macguffin is over the next mountain. Go get it or Princess Maplethorpe will die of hypernatremia." So a nice balance between those extremes would be awesome.
While NPCs are key for a main story quest, I'm hoping in the post story dungeons you'll be taking a page from the Shiren games with the NPCs. I love the idea of wandering folk you can meet that either offer unique services for cash ("For 100 donads I'll ID an item in your inventory!") or perhaps could even give you some temporary ability just for that level if you pay them some specifically requested valuable item from your inventory.
Isilel, you put a lot of thought into that response, so let's see if I can do the same in return: First off- regarding shops- Anyone who played Shiren the Wanderer knows that these were a big help in the game. Other than the obvious ones in villages, you might get lucky enough to stumble onto one inside the dungeon. If you have the cash on hand, these were a fantastic way to fill in some missing component of your preferred arsenal. Another bit about Shiren that helped is the ability to retain stuff for a LATER game, inside the various storehouses around the world. There was even a random courier to take some goodie of yours back to a storehouse, as well as a jar to teleport important items back. If you played this game without getting into a desperate spot and stripping down to the buff to throw all your best gear into a Storehouse Jar, you weren't pushing yourself hard enough So basically, both of these ideas worked great in Shiren. Another possible is the idea of finding some of your previous stuff (and your previous SELF), which can be found in NetHack, and to a lesser extent even in Rogue Touch. I did tone that down a lot in RT to prevent abuse though, and made sure that your former adventurer was a tough customer! To ease people's fears, Spirit Hunter Mineko will have a way to carry specific items over into a new game after your death. It will also have a hard mode that eliminates that advantage for those who like a challenge! There will also be a way to shop for other gear, planned to be approximately half-way into your journey, and just before the castle. This should be a good balance- you'll have time to earn some money, and you should have an idea of what types of items you need more of before getting into the castle itself. I do like the idea of "unlockable" information about items, equipment and magic being inside the game. A lot of the trouble determining what weapon or armor is best will be eliminated with an actual character stats page. Many people have requested that Rogue Touch include more attributes and stats, but that classic is not the place for them. Here I have free reign, so when you equip a weapon, you'll know what kind of damage you can deal with it Skills- I think some valid points can be made for and against them, but personally I am against skill trees in a roguelike. That's not to say you won't have certain abilities that can be improved through continued use, and even carried over into your next game! You won't be bothered with point management though. Most of the real skill in roguelikes is contained in the player's head, learned through repeated attempts whether success or failure Pit traps- you spend early levels of the game heading downwards through the mountain to reach the forest, then cross the valley/forest, then start your ascent in the castle. Pit traps would have different effects in all three cases so I need to consider that. Going down through caves, a pit would actually speed your descent by sending you to the next floor down. In the forest, they do not make as much sense, except as something to slow you down and cause a bit of damage (you'd have to be able to climb out of them to continue the journey here). In the castle, falling through a pit trap would bring you back down to the previously cleared floor, which eats up time and resources. In general regarding pit traps and other traps: I'll be adding things in where they make the most sense, and trying not to annoy the player too badly! Maybe I should address your story thoughts with some of the others in a single post. More coming in a bit! Have to work on a new routine this morning... PS- very glad that you and everyone else like the new art and visual style of the "dungeons" you'll be inhabiting!
Hi CD I am a big fan of Rogue Touch and I think you have a great project here. Unfortunately, I am not a big fan of the NES / J-RPG art. I know it's asking too much, but it'd be great if there was an option to get a traditional RPG character or at least something like 100 Rogues. Anyway, good luck with the project!
theres a big difference between NES and SNES, I think he was going for the SNES look. Is that what you meant?
Josh, I think you're right that Joaovc meant SNES, as that 16-bit sprite and artwork style is what I've been aiming for. Many of the best RPGs I've ever played came our for that system! NES level graphics would be a bit too old-school As much as I'd like to provide different visual themes to suit any user's taste... this isn't as simple as swapping in a new tileset like iNetHack can. There are several thousand frames of animation from multiple artists (including myself) which have cost me over $10K and many months work so far... Spirit Hunter Mineko is really about the whole package anyway: Art, music, even her name, "Mineko", is Japanese roughly meaning "Child of the Summit". The same can be said of 100 Rogues in reverse- if you try to replace the caricatures of their crusader or fairy (or even the monsters or council members) with more serious looking art, or J-RPG style art, it sort of breaks the package that they are trying to present. Glad that you are still interested in my project at least! I think once you see this in full swing with monsters, magic, and more action you'll find it pleasing enough to the eye. I can promise that the storyline won't be the typical teenage angst-fest that J-RPGs sometimes seem to be. Speaking of the game's storyline and NPCs and whatnot, I owe a response to a few other people here! Give me just a bit longer... I'll be back!
Mid-way shop sounds great! Never played any rogue-likes before RT, so can't compare, but all the stuff you intend to borrow from this Shiren seems really good. BTW, another thought - maybe you should go much lighter on cursed items than in RT, where it seems that about 1/4 - 1/3 of everything you find is cursed. This really takes fun out of finding stuff in later levels, IMHO. I mean, finding something that's not enchanted is usually sufficiently disappointing. That little frisson would be there even if items are only occasionally cursed, but finding stuff will remain exciting. Also - if, say, bows and crossbows have different ammunition in Mineko like in RT, it would be great if they'd come with some suitable ammo when first found. In RT I very seldom find a crossbow and ammunition for it in the same run... I have to say that I have really discovered the joys of throwing stuff at monsters in RT lately - if it will still be in Mineko, maybe we could have an extra slot for thrown weapons, so that we don't have to go into inventory every single time?
Just finished processing: A new little video clip "Down by the River"... switch to 480P manually in the corner of the youtube box for best viewing results Subscribe to the TouchArcade YouTube channel Low on action, but still cool to look at, I recorded it this afternoon to show off a few of the forest environmental effects that were incomplete or missing at the time the previous video that was recorded/uploaded over the weekend (and seen on the front page!!). Other News: Started building a few pieces of my monster path finding and AI today. Nothing you can see yet of course, but I will be sure to demo something as soon as there are interesting results to view Will be responding to other posts here very soon
In regards to music CData, Being musician; the soundtrack to a game is always extremely important to me. A great soundtrack is something that always captivates me and forces me to keep playing a game (whether the game is good or not). Look at the artwork/sprite work for the game, I can see that there is A LOT of personality, and I would hate to see a game with epic potential have an "ambient" soundtrack. Unless, of course, you mean and "epic ambient" soundtrack like diablo II. Just thought I would express my opinion. I've been following this game for a long time (as roguelike is my favorite genre). Keep up the amazing work!
When I refer to "ambient" maybe I'm using a term incorrectly, but I am thinking of all the environmental noises, rather than music. For example, the river video- hearing the water and various birds nearby is what I meant by "ambient" background track/sounds. Music is a whole other topic that is very important to the feel of any game of course! Part of me really wants to stick with simple sound effects, and use music sparingly during special events in the game (rather than continuously)! A lot of people applauded the simple use of "dungeony" background sounds in Rogue Touch rather than a loop of music which would have become annoying over time Since I have a variety of environments in Spirit Hunter Mineko, it would also mean a wider variety of background sound effects... making it even less likely to feel repetitive. Birds in the forest during the day, maybe crickets at night, caves have other odd scrabbling and dripping sounds like Rogue Touch, the castle could have other odd noises, including doors opening and closing (which could even be used to detect if something is following you)! As a musician, I value your opinion! Please, suggest your thoughts on what kinds of music you think would fit, and how would you feel if it was not a continuous soundtrack? If it showed up at certain times- like fanfare for gaining a level, or some gothic evil sounding music when you reach the main doors of the castle at night in the forest, and so on? Other thoughts: being able to play your own music is VERY important to some people. Would you prefer to hear nothing but your music in that case, or overlay the ambient noises and combat and all sounds, or maybe just combat sounds? Really, these questions can be for anyone who would like to respond, so feel free! If you are a musician or audio designer, please let me know in your response!
IMO i would go with "overlay the ambient noises and combat and all sounds" I like the idea of certain sounds only playing at certain times, makes the hearing of that sfx even more awesome
