Sounds great that you are going to have a large number of control options! When the time comes I would like to beta test your game.
The fargoal ranged attack input requires you to touch and hold on the hero until you hear the "ding," at which point you drag the aiming line to the target. There's no chance of accidental swipe movement. The other method, which most seem to prefer, is to double-tap and hold your touch on the target, "ding", at which point the aiming line appears and you can drag it around and then release to fire (or drag back to the hero to cancel).
Ah, excellent clarification of the ranged attack scheme in Fargoal! Believe it or not, I've played a pretty fair amount of SoF but have yet to make any ranged attacks whatsoever! Of course that may explain my regular untimely demise in Legendary Mode, which is the only mode I play... Legendary mode is the only choice for real men, and I suppose Klingons- "Today is a good day to die!"
This is some great stuff! (Lol...) You know what would be epic? If after Madgarden is done with his updates to sof, CommanderData finishes Mineko, Keithburgen and company finishes with fixing and including content to 100 Rogues. You guys unite to create the most epic and feature packed rogue-like game that shatters the rogue-like industries and sets a new standard for rogue-likes kinda how final fantasy set the standards for rpgs. (Oh and my wishlist is perhaps a sci-fi rogue-like ) P.S. world conquest is optional (I have a feeling keithburgun would like this )
Here is another thought on the ranged attack that could be clean and intuitive and could lead to other interstitial game mecancics Basicaly have a target reticule that automatically sets on the first mob that comes into sight. A small button sized image of the targeted mob appears in the bottom center of the screen (or top or wherever). Tapping the image attacks that mob if you can. You could have a row of different ranged attacks eg spells or require those to be equipped too. To the sides of this target, there are arrow buttons that allow you to cycle through other nearby mobs. The definition of nearby depends on your weapon type. Sword might cycle through a shorter range than a crossbow. Of course you also allow tap on any mob to set that to your target. Where this gets interesting is you can now change targeting ability based on environment such as darkness, fog, your character being drunk or confused, etc. You could also allow targeting of other objects like a trap that you could shoot to set off remotely. Hpoe this helps Christy
CommanderData, hehe indeed. I don't even know if the Squire and Hero modes even work! ... I just play Legend. RonBurgundy, sounds like a great plan!
Hi Christy, been a while since we've talked... work has progressed quite a bit since my initial concept art as you can see (not as quickly as I'd like, but I'll get there)! After our discussions on good and bad UI, touch controls, and ease of understanding I've been putting some serious thought into the controls and playability for Spirit Hunter Mineko. Ideally the game's controls should be as simple as possible, and self-discoverable. I think the key point I stated that you helped to drive home... if I have to explain how to play then I've failed at UI Design! Despite being vastly more playable than it would be with an on screen keyboard, I failed to provide the best possible user experience with Rogue Touch. Mind you, it's still much better than the gesture interface of the free Rogue The concept you outlined below for ranged attacks is quite interesting! I can picture a few ways to adapt this to handle the multiple ranged actions that Mineko will have available. So yes, it definitely is helpful and I appreciate it! It may be important to note that I want ranged actions to only support the 8 basic directions that most roguelikes adhere to. Just because there is a monster on screen, doesn't mean that either of you can hit each other- unless you line up correctly in one of these primary directions. The reasoning- it adds to the strategy of the game! With caution, you can step in ways that prevent a dragon from drawing a bead on you and flaming you to death. And more intelligent monsters will close in on you while avoiding the lines of fire that you have at your disposal More commentary coming... have to top off my coffee and ponder this for a few minutes!
Now that I have spent a bit of time with the excellent Rogue Touch, there are 2 things that I absolutely hate in it's control scheme: 1. Opening of inventory when tapping on or near the character. So incredibly annoying and unnecessary, since an inventory button would have been so much more convenient. 2. Armor change requiring opening of inventory twice. No, I understand that changing armor should take time. So, let me change it in one action and then give me the hourglass icon with "changing armor" legend for 2 turns or whatever. This mechanism is already used for paralysis/fainting, why not here? And another thing that may be just my lack of comprehension - I couldn't figure out if different base types of weapons do different damage. Is a battle-axe better than a mace? Or are the modifiers the only thing that matters? IMHO, there should some hints to that end somewhere. Maybe I just missed them, of course... BTW, a button for changing between melee and ranged weapon without going into inventory would be appreciated, too. It can still take a turn to switch, but less hassle for being tactical would be welcome. Anyway, I am enjoying RT a lot (better late than never, eh?) and can't wait for the next and improved step in rogue-likes which Mineko is sure to provide.
I've been very tardy in updates about Mineko, sorry everyone! After that great control discussion a week ago I went off to brood about the possibilities, and then ended up switching to my "Artist" hat for a while to clean up and improve the tilesets that make up Spirit Hunter Mineko's various locations. People who have been following my twitter feed have seen a few new image results of that work. I'll be bringing a more in depth look at SHM graphic improvements and other developments in a new post soon! Back to controls: Rogue Touch is an interesting beast, since some people love the classic touch control scheme (sounds like you're having an issue there, tapping too close to the character instead of closer to the edges of the screen), and some love the D-Pad instead. The D-Pad layout actually has a dedicated inventory button as well as a dedicated ranged attack button, so it could be worth a look for you. Turns- in Rogue Touch removing your armor took two turns, all other actions you can take with items use only one turn. The problem I see for a game like Rogue Touch is that IF the player can remain in inventory taking actions, they may not realize the consequences of all that until they see how many turns they missed in-game and are pulverized by monsters. I doubt that Rogue Touch will ever be modified away from that scheme because it's the most transparent way to show actions and the passing of time. Spirit Hunter Mineko is not encumbered with 30 years of history like Rogue, so we've got some flexibility here: 1) Inventory Access: This will have a dedicated button in one of the corners of the screen. Tapping your character will either do NOTHING at all, or it might be used as a shortcut to repeat your last action. Haven't decided yet 2) Game Turns, Inventory: There will likely be no item that requires two or more game turns to use (like that armor in Rogue), and I'm looking at options for "quicker viewing" overlays for your items, rather than transitioning to a scrolling list, and again to an "item detail" screen. If I can manage it correctly, this should minimize any tedium you found in dealing with items in Rogue Touch 3) Melee / Ranged weapon swapping: In Mineko, you'll have access to your ranged weapon at any time, no need to swap! The trick comes in my choices for best managing motion and ranged attacks. Madgarden's got some good stuff worth pilfering from Fargoal, and Kali has some great ideas too. Stir up the pot, and I'm not sure what the final dish will look like, but it smells good! PS- Answered your Rogue Touch equipment questions in the thread here. Hope that helps you! Another Mineko status update coming soon. Expect pics at least. Maybe video too
Yes, I just have an irrational hate of D-pads . I guess I'll try it, though. But generally, I just think that this design - when tapping on or near the character opens an inventory, needs to be consigned to the archives where it belongs. Gaming may not have progressed all that much, really, but it did come up with better interfaces. Snip great stuff about Mineko, that makes me want it even more . Thanks a lot. I hope that in Mineko all the relevant gameplay information will be accessible from within the game, though. It is generally tedious to leave the game and go online for it and with a Touch often impossible too.
Well, I finally sat down to wrestle with iShowU HD, the iPhone Simulator, and iMovie to create an updated video of Spirit Hunter Mineko's progress! I'm not sure how to set 480P as default with the youtube forum codes, so please switch to 480P manually in the lower right corner to see the graphics in better detail Subscribe to the TouchArcade YouTube channel Please forgive any choppy parts in the video. Recording in the simulator has never worked perfectly for me! Testing this on my various devices shows the motion to be silky smooth, and very low CPU usage... This video gives a brief highlight of areas that Mineko will travel through in her journey to find out the mystery of the castle "Demon's Reach". Starting from her house, part of a small village on a mountian, she sneaks out of her room through a trap door, she traverses the village "cellars". From there she continues making her way down into caves in the mountain until she reaches the exit to the valley floor and daylight! Mineko will make her way through the forests on the valley floor, experiencing a variety of environmental effects, including a day/night cycle, until she reaches the castle. Finally you must explore the castle, working your way up to the top! Some key facts since I'm feeling generous today: 1) At least the 4 major environments will be seen in your primary game. There are a few secret bonus lands I have ideas for that may or may not make the initial cut. Each of the major environments has its own random generator for unique look and feel. Most importantly, each environment provides new exploration tactics, new combat tactics, and new room features to interact with, in addition to looking pretty! 2) At least 30 types of monster will be found in the game, each monster species is fully animated and has unique attributes and special abilities to keep you on your toes! 3) Lots of varied equipment and items. I'm going to remain hushed about this and the magic system for a while longer 4) The "main" game will be between 30 and 40 levels long, depending on how the gameplay balance feels. A "post-game" scenario is planned for people who need more Mineko while awaiting a sequel ----- So at this point, the game's been in development for over 6 months. A substantial portion of the time was devoted to background story, game-design, monster concepts, environment design, and artwork. I am finally getting deep enough into the code to believe this will be a really great game! A lot of my programming up to now has been devoted to learning OpenGL, and creating a solid foundation of environment generators, and great display tech. In the coming weeks, you'll be glad to hear that progress on meatier stuff will begin- monsters will be appearing, and their animation/AI will be a high priority for me. These guys need to be believable, scary, and sometimes funny... and I will do my best to deliver. Please feel free to ask me questions here, or comment on the new video! I really need to see the continued support of the community... the budget spent out of my own pocket so far on this is into five figures of cash, not including the value of my time, and I'm not done yet! Getting scary cold feet over how deeply my thread was buried this time Help me and Mineko by letting me know what you think!
Damn, that's looking pretty sweet. The lighting and atmosphere is fantastic! It's going to be like a graphically enhanced Roguelike RPG meets a Zelda-style adventure, which has be hugely interested. Great job so far; I have a feeling that all of these months of development are going to be worth it in the end, as this is the sort of game that's going to have pretty broad appeal. Out of curiosity, are there going to be NPCs you interact with/talk to for clues or plot advancement? Or will it mainly follow the traditional Roguelike hack 'n slash formula?
awesome i don't know much about rougue games but that looked interesting i like the music and how you shadows move according to your position
Oh man... this just keeps getting better and better! I can't WAIT to see the finished product -- and this is one game I'm confident *will* be complete when it's released, at least from a programming standpoint. I'd rather wait another six months for a game that's roadworthy than to get it sooner but have to deal with constant stability issues. And don't worry; this thread may get buried from time to time, but we won't be forgetting about the game anytime soon.
If you want I could post random stuff if it does get buried again. But I cannot be held responsible for what these "random" comments may contain... ... (Whips out contract)
Mindfield, I'm very glad you approve! Since you were such a great supporter of Rogue Touch last year I was hoping you'd appreciate the evolution here Definitely looking to make the game have a broader appeal than the average roguelike! There's a lot of different things that can be done to make people take notice- the most obvious is a graphic facelift... Which you can see is well underway. I wanted to make a game that people could comfortably compare to some of the greatest Super Nintendo RPGs like Zelda, Chrono Trigger, and the roguelike bar set with Shiren the Wanderer. So far I feel like that goal is being met Other than that, gameplay and controls are key features: Controls: We've spent PAGES of this thread on the concept, and the community feedback here is great. I feel like Madgarden's set a good standard for movement in Sword of Fargoal, so a similar scheme will be used here... with tweaks to make it more suitable for turn based gaming. Gameplay: it's important for there to be new sights and surprises as you progress in the game. Rogue Touch copied the "rogue" formula completely, but that does not resonate well with the majority of the gaming public! Mineko adds in variety in spades, the video here only scratches the surface of visuals, and only of the environments. Wait until you see what happens next To answer your question: At the moment there are a few "NPC" types that you will deal with in certain situations to advance the story. I am trying to keep them out of the way a bit so that the story does not interfere with the main goal of adventuring for those who want more meat than potatoes! Thanks! The light and shadow tech has been tough to create, but I think it looks great now too! You won't need to know much about roguelikes to enjoy this game either I'm no stranger to roguelikes or feature-complete releases, so you're right in believing in Mineko will be fantastic on day one. Not to say it won't get EVEN BETTER with additional updates and content down the road though! Haha! Nice idea, but not necessary... just feel free to pop in and ask questions or give me a friendly bump for new info- sometimes I get so carried away in my work that I completely forget to share with the crowd here Anyone else new to roguelikes, or not sure if they would like one, please ask me questions here! I think I can help you feel more at ease with the type of game I have planned here
CD, you have not been forgotten! In fact, I have been playing RT a lot lately and thinking about the whole what is fun issue. And so far my conclusion is that if RT had a shop where all that gold could be used and perhaps some other loot sold, then most of non-fun aspects would be mitigated. There is no denying that old-school aspects do add to enjoyment - the tension is incomparable. But if the random generator is against you, there is no way to recover. There are a few things in RT that should certainly go away in Spirit Hunter - like starting the character with unidentified and indeed cursed items, identification not telling you whether the item is cursed (yes -x is a giveaway, but how should I know that the ring of Teleportation is _always_ cursed?), over-abundance of darkness, switching of weapons taking a turn and of armor and rings (!) 2, simplistic maps, etc. But other old-school aspects would not negatively impact the gameplay if there was an access to a shop every 9 levels or so. Gold could be still used for ranking, so there would be an incentive not to spend it. Now in Mineko I understand that all of these problems would go away in any case, but it is important not to make it toothless either. Oh, and all information necessary to play the game, should be accessible in the game. Like what weapons do what damage, what kinds of potions there are, etc. Maybe make it unlockable - as we encounter and test something the first time, it gets added to the information file. I like the idea of legacy items, if it means setting aside items during one run so that they can be used in the other and not a couple of random items found on a skeleton, like now. Also, those legacy items should remain identified. I further think that perhaps a character should be allowed some rudimentary skills. Maybe one point per level that could be spent on sneaking, searching or identifying. If maxed out at the highest level, the effect should mimic that of a RT ring, before that it would be just increasing percentages. Identifying should never go over 75% even at the highest level, though. A button to rest until wholly (or maybe 25% -50%) healed would be welcome too. With a chance of being interrupted by monsters, of course, as normal. We can just use search to tactically skip a turn. Or maybe tapping the rest button would skip a turn like now, but holding it would allow the above? Also, since a lot of time in Mineko the character would be going up, maybe pit traps should just drop you into a room? I am rather fond of them, I must admit. And of course there is the question of story-elements. I generally strongly prefer stories in my games and I am glad to hear that there will be story in Mineko, but there is no denying that in a game like RT, going through the same bits of story repeatedly would be annoying. So, maybe in Mineko there should be a setting option that could be enabled, that the story elements would play out only the first time you come across them. This way, advancing the story will always be an epic experience without familiarity breeding contempt. BTW, the trailer is mind-bogglingly lovely!
This is coming along great. Funny that should mention Chrono Trigger as a model, because that's exactly what I thought of when I was watching the video. If that's what you're shooting for (a lofty target), then I think it's important to beef up the interaction with NPCs, especially if the game will involve only a single adventurer (rather than being party based). What made Chrono Trigger special for me was the nobility and pathos of the supporting characters (I was actually moved when the other machines turned against Robo, for example, and Frog is simply one of the coolest characters ever to grace a video game); it gave the action a surprising amount of emotional heft. The other aspect of Chrono Trigger that set it apart from other RPGs of the era was the seamless combination of both linear and non-linear adventuring: there was a clear story to follow, but you could choose to approach it from a variety of different paths. There was much that you had to figure out on your own. Of course, an RPG could fail to match Chrono Trigger and still be a very good game. But I find it encouraging that you're not intimidated by such classic works. This is definitely up there as one of my most anticipated games.
Is that in-game music in the trailer? CD, I have not forgotten you or Mineko! This, Galactic Keep: Dice Battles, and Sword and Sworcery are all games that I have not forgotten but that have been buried in threads. This really is becoming more intriguing - there is no longer just a dungeon, but an outside realm as well! I just got back into Rogue Touch yesterday, and if you still want suggestions for what to keep and what not to keep from old roguelike formulas, I have a couple: Make it easier to find secret doors; sometimes you have to spam search to find them. Keep the mushrooms: picking up a flower that is really a crossbow is just priceless. From what you've said here, the amount of content here looks massive.
