ditto it will rock woo armor sets maybe add a system where if you kill 1000 of that enemy it gets stronger, can't remember what game had that :/
Oh yes, it's going to rock quite hard. Still a lot to go, but even what's there so far is shaping up very nicely. If nothing else, I have a feeling it's going to be one of the most subtly detailed Roguelikes around, if not in the entire RPG genre.
I know, right?! Maybe I should send him a PM thanking him. Dear CommanderData, Your voice is like butter to our ears. And I just wanted to say, "Thank you CommanderData for the audible chocolate that you generously spread all over Touch Arcade." Thank you, RonBurgundy
Hmm...I dunno how I feel about this one. Along with the leaderboards, it seems like this could be easily exploited--a couple of friends could independently get a couple of really good items, pool them together, and trade them around as they all get high scores. Maybe have a different leaderboard for those that never traded or something?
I don't think we should have a trading system, because the game is still a rogue-like so that in a sense is cheating lol. The items and such are randomly generated by my guess. But then again this game sounds like a rogue-like/rpg fusion so perhaps there could be trading but the traded items would be excluded from your total score. But I still say nay to trading items.
I would have thought having friends buy the game just to trade, would be the whole point of implimenting a trading system. Not that i think this is a bad thing, but it is a selling point in many ways. And this is modeled after Shirin, so it really doesn't seem out of place when that is considered, considering items can be carried over between deaths in Shirin, i think the ds version had forms of item trading and saving. Sticking to rogue purism was what held Rogue Touch back in many ways, this is the game he can go wild on so to speak.
Only just noticed this thread... Oh my! This looks brilliant. Lookin' forward to it. Oh and Shiren is my favourite ever graphical roguelike.
Hey everyone! Hope that you all had a happy & safe fourth of July, or "just another day" if you're outside the US. Want to try to catch up on posts here! A lot has been happening since the weekend: No corpse eating in Spirit Hunter Mineko... she's got more refined tastes! Believe it or not, there will likely be little to no food at all. Or at least you won't need to eat in order to continue playing as in other roguelikes. A different system will replace that, hopefully people will enjoy it more I do like the idea of challenges for equipment! Each of you put up a piece, and winner takes all! That could be very fun Josh, glad to have you as a close supporter! Your upcoming games are looking stunning as well, 3D is just an area I can't compete with. But I can make good clean fun I don't recall what game had that in it. An interesting idea though, a twist on the food motivation to keep moving. In games like Rogue Touch you needed to keep moving to find food, or starve and die. Here, without food to push you forward I have several other motivators to drive you onward instead. Persistent people could sit in one spot and farm low level monsters though.... If I added something like this that carried over between runs... watch out! Farming 1000 rats would make your next game much tougher due to "super-rats". Maybe their levels should shrink back to normal after 3 to 5 player deaths, just to make it so you have a hope of getting back on track. This game is all about temporary status effects, not permanent curses, because those hurt player enjoyment a bit too much I agree that not much in the roguelike genre can be found to have this level of subtle details and interactions between you and your surroundings. And most of these will make sense, not simply being added to the game "because I can" (looking at the kitchen sink in NetHack ). The graphics detail will play into it, but also very important is the audio design which is why I'm glad that you're on board to fill in that weak area of mine! Nafkert, RonBurgandy, thank you very much! Wish I could hurry up so you could experience the game right away, but it takes time and thought to make something special... I'll keep spreading delicious words as often as I can in the meantime! I'll respond to everyone else in a bit, just have some other urgent work to complete
I suppose it is possible to exploit this in some way, but if the mechanics of it are designed to make it difficult to do it would be less worrying. As you say, a simple fix would be to flag any game that had "borrowed/traded" gear and place them on a different leaderboard. Another way- If you had a challenge mode as descibed in my previous post it would be impractical to trade lots of gear because you would need to be able to complete the challenge each time in order to obtain one new piece from your friend. That might be just enough to minimize or solve the problem. Yet another thought- the post-game dungeon will not allow you to bring in your fancy upgraded epic gear. Everyone starts equally, like Fay's Final Puzzle in Shiren. That post-game leaderboard would be the test of true roguelike and dungeon crawler fans The game will definitely be beatable without trading items, but people who take the time to cultivate a set of gear (either through repeated plays or trading) will find it easier, as it was in Shiren if you took the time to build very powerful melded weapons and shields. I agree that the value of the items themselves should not end up as part of your total score. That is possible- maybe track who had the item last, and disallow any trade back to the previous owner. Of course you could use a third friend as a "gear launderer" to make an intermediate trade so the original owner can then get it back. Honestly, if someone wants to get that elaborate and clever they will find a way to exploit anything I come up with Vinvy, you definitely see the point... Engaging in trade and challenges with others makes the game appeal to more people. Roguelikes need all the help they can get in attempts to win the attention of the average gamer! Very true that my hands were tied with Rogue Touch... if I changed the origin of Rogue much more than I did, it would have upset far more purists than I made happy. Spirit Hunter Mineko lets me take ideas from Shiren and pretty much any other source including my own crazy imagination and blend it all together Never played the Wii version of Shiren (yet) but I can recommend the DS version as one of the best games ever for that system. Cartridge remained in my DS for like 6 months straight Glad you found Mineko... as I said Shiren is one of my all time favorites too! This thread is sort of in submarine mode right now, hiding and resurfacing as I post new details. As I get closer to release you can expect to see and hear a lot more. Don't forget to tell your friends! --- If anyone else has thoughts about item trading and challenge modes, please feel free to share them here. The final solution for these concepts will likely be quite different from my original vision... I want an easy to use but hard to exploit system. We can't have people going around sharing epic gear like candy, or worse yet, cloning it. Like all other aspects of Spirit Hunter Mineko, I will take my time to ensure the result is worth it!
I personally am not a big fan of item trading or, even as a big Shiren fan, allowing players to "goto town" with stored items from previous runs. I found the most tedious aspect of Shiren was the NEED to make dozens upon dozens of equipment runs with the only purpose being to make a quick run through the main story dungeon just to power up my gear for one of the post story dungeons.
Fair enough, and I KNOW you are a big Shiren fan! Lucky for you, there are some limitations on gear, and the quantity/ability to store it for later use or build up its power. This eliminates much of the tedium that Shiren the Wanderer had, in trying to build a +99 weapon with tons of tricks melded into it. Those kinds of power levels are ridiculous, and it makes every individual +1 to a weapon or shield nearly meaningless. No amount of attempted grinding or gear building will make Mineko into a minor deity as you could feel like with some gear in Shiren The other use of this challenge / gear trade system I have in mind is for custom dungeon crawling competitions, which I think you would enjoy much more: 1) I set up conditions for a special dungeon, number of levels, monster types, trap types, items found, and a goal to reach. That creates a "non-random" event which is the same for all players. 2) Post this info in a thread here and at my site, and interested players can join the competition though a simple button press in the game's main menu (which then pulls all the details from my server and sets up the world for the contest). 3) ??? 4) Players profit! The top X players at the end of the contest automatically receive a semi-unique prize item through the item trade server. Possibly including things that cannot be found directly in-game otherwise! I think this is one of the aspects of my plan that excites me the most. Those rare, "semi-unique" items will then likely end up being traded and re-traded between players for new special items that appear in later contests. Much like the rare cards you might find in Pokemon or Magic the Gathering!
I have to disagree. I have really enjoyed Rogue Touch, but starting from scratch every time gets old after a while and makes the deaths sting more. Storing equipment for the next run will provide the feeling of certain accomplishment even after failure, and also the hope of getting further next time. It wouldn't only benefit the new users, but also make it easier to jump back in after hiatus and generally free the players from having to learn this stuff by heart. I.e. will improve accessibility without sacrificing complexity, IMHO. Having the information becoming accessible through discovery and then remaining available for the subsequent runs with the same profile is a great idea! But as to how the info is conveyed, I'd prefer a separate screen that doesn't terminate the game, as in RT I often enough found myself needing information about items I didn't currently have in my inventory. For instance, informed decision to try a and unknown potion/scroll or not, hinges on the knowledge of possible consequences. I have to say that I am amazed by the complexity and subtlety of gameplay that you envision for Spirit Hunter, CD. Beware of the feature creep, though.
Will item trading be over the internet, using codes? I don't have any friends who really play roguelikes, or game on ipods, so it would be really useful to come online for potential trades and to get the whole experience.
That's the plan, ideally *all* trading will have to pass through my servers and pass some sort of authenticity checks to make sure the item and both the players making the trade are genuine. The goal would be to allow any user to post an item, and perhaps what they might be looking for in trade. Other users, whether they are friends or strangers, could see this and make an offer for you to accept (or not)! Would love to do this in-game, but it might make first appearance through Safari on your iDevice. My description of a "challenge service" with prizes a couple of posts up would use the same mechanisms to transfer new artifact prizes to the winners. Some of this is merely theoretical at the moment, but I actually have tested methods for transferring game objects from servers to special test copy of Rogue Touch. I have the basic technology... Hopefully I can get this full service off the ground on day one of release. If not, you will see it in an update (Isilel - I'll be back to respond to you in a bit )
Have you played any Pokemon games for the DS? If you have, can you tell me if your trading system compares to that? The only difference I can see between your system and that one is that you are making sure everything is legitimate; I'm pretty sure I have an illegitimate Jirachi from a trade.
Yes! My favorite roguelike, by a smidgen. And easy to get into. You can find the DS version probably so go with that, never tried the wii game, but heard it's made some notible changes to the forumla. I think a better method would simply be to make a certain amount of enemies on a floor spawned when the floor is generated, worth maximum experience, and once they are all killed more monsters start spawning but the amount of experience they give is signifigantly less, and less.. Until eventually you are fighting monsters that give no experience. Or give monsters 'levels', and monsters of a higher level than the player give maximum experience, monsters of a similar level give a medium experience, and monsters of a lower level give very very little experience. Actually, the idea of having super rats(monsters) created into your next game would be really interesting, make them really powerful but give lot's of experience. So a skilled player could actually use it as a tactic. Go out and kill tons of a specific monster to use in the next game as an experience boost, just gotta be sure to have the right weapons in the store-house saved as well to take care of them. I understand, and agree where you are coming from, but I wasn't really the type to abuse the system so I disagree. For me knowing that I had a few items in a store house, and one that I was slowly building through a few games, was the carrot that kept me going. It gave some progression, made you feel like could always make it a little further the next game. I do agree though, that a balance should be made to make sure people don't see the need to grind. And also so that with the right tactics a cold win is possible. But I loved building a sword over multiple playthroughs, giving it tons of different attributes, and then deciding it was good enough and making the plunge... only to inevitably lose it. Yes! This is really needed I think. It is so easy to put a roguelike aside for a while, and realize when you get back that you've forgotten everything. A good tutorial that can be turned on or off is a must as well, doesn't need to be special, just like when it's on it tells you all the controls and stuff really quick, as well. I am having a hard time going back to Shirin because of this.
