iPad Space Forest Dilemma (By PapaQuark)

Discussion in 'iPhone and iPad Games' started by Eli, Nov 5, 2014.

  1. dabigkahuna

    dabigkahuna Well-Known Member

    Mar 5, 2011
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    #61 dabigkahuna, Dec 6, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2014
    Improved 33 & 34
     
  2. saosijs

    saosijs Well-Known Member

    Mar 24, 2012
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    #62 saosijs, Dec 6, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2014
    Nice. And there was even more in 33 :D

    [edit] just lowered #9 Four Corners from .22 to 0.13
     
  3. dabigkahuna

    dabigkahuna Well-Known Member

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    Dang, you've been busy while I've been in bed! And I haven't even figured out the 0.5 improvement level yet!
     
  4. saosijs

    saosijs Well-Known Member

    Mar 24, 2012
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    Now there are two levels that can be improved significantly :D
    I also managed some of the 0.01/2/3 (but not as much as I liked).
    Result: I dropped under 81 seconds :cool:
     
  5. mQuark

    mQuark Member

    Nov 17, 2014
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    Hi Guys, I'm really enjoying your battle. I have some good news. I just cracked the unresponsive quick tap bug 5 minutes ago. Of course sweeping is mostly better but on some levels it might make room for improvement. At least it will make the game less annoying(the bad kind) for new users. Thank you saosijs for finding that bug, I was so into sweeping I did not tap at all.

    Best regards!
    Michael (Developer - Space Forest Dilemma)
     
  6. dabigkahuna

    dabigkahuna Well-Known Member

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    How much did you reduce the new one? I've been at work so only got a few moments to do anything. Managed to tie 33 and set a new record for 69.

    I'm curious about #9. That's a significant drop. I can't imagine any other strategy other than sliding your finger around as fast as you can and hope you hit (and it registers) every arrow. I can't even match my own score, let alone drop it that much! Am I missing something?

    That one annoys me because it blocks my consecutive max score streak. Likewise with 41. While I know the moves for it, I can't get the reactions to work very much at all. I have some doubts it is the "ghost" thing you mentioned - the two examples you originally gave for that later ended up with much better high scores. I'm betting it is that 1/60th of a second check the software uses that causes the problem.
     
  7. dabigkahuna

    dabigkahuna Well-Known Member

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    I'm really stuck. While I did get some more improvement, they were all just basic speed things - no improvements in strategy but also, on levels where I'm pretty much convinced the only way to match a high score is to go faster, I don't see any way to go faster (at least not enough to match the high score).

    Which makes me think there is something else going on that I just don't know about. I have figured out that on the ones where rocks are already moving, tapping to restart and then quickly tap an arrow usually won't launch the arrow. In fact, I've experimented with a really quick touch and then dragging around any place - no trail appears. It only works if I make that initial touch have some sort of delay after the restart. It also doesn't seem consistent. One may require a delay which is more than enough to guarantee my own highest score can't be matched. So almost certainly there must have been a time when the game would accept a quicker reaction.

    I haven't been able to come up with anything that would get the game to respond to such a quick response more often.

    Or maybe there is some other odd behavior that I could take advantage of. For those who played Cover Orange, you may remember how you could get a kind of "slo-mo" which really helped on some levels. Just an odd quirk, but maybe there is some quirk with this game too that I haven't spotted.

    If I was just behind other players on some levels, I would just figure they were better. But too often I can't come close to my own records!
     
  8. dabigkahuna

    dabigkahuna Well-Known Member

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    #68 dabigkahuna, Dec 7, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2014
    Been working through the levels again. Up to 66 - no luck finding two that have room for big improvement though. Of course, a fair number of those are fairly complicated so there could be an alternative approach I just didn't see. Maybe I'll get through the last 34 today. I did manage to pick up a little on level 9, but I sure don't see how I could move my finger any faster!

    Dang! Gone through all 100 levels again and just can't find the levels with sizable improvement possibilities. I did pick up a few other points but, as usual, it was just from doing things faster after, roughly, infinite attempts!
     
  9. saosijs

    saosijs Well-Known Member

    Mar 24, 2012
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    I don't know of any reproducible quirks. Only of the random ones that you already described that at times you manage a best time that you cannot reproduce anymore :) I tried low quality gfx but cannot notice any difference (visually or in obtained times). With the 1x mode on my mini however, I had some success, mostly some small deltas 0.01/2/3. Makes sense if you think of it. The finger has to travel half the distance. It is how I got the Four Corners anyway, but that must have been in part an irreproducible quirk too. I'll update the spreadsheet with the two high-scores, unless you want me not to. By the way, did I already ask if for you the sum of the spreadsheet isn't the same as the time on GC too? Probably a rounding effect because of the 60fps?

    The ghost effect (trail on the finger) examples that I gave indeed are not so good. But what the trail shows/suggests imo, is that the registering can stop at some point entirely if you go too fast. Let me try to explain better . Take 23 where the 60fps effect can cause a block in the middle not starting to move when you're swiping too fast. Now take 5, where you can go too fast and the trail shows it didn't reach the second block. It suggests to me these are different limitations, but not knowing the implementation, I could be wrong of course.
     
  10. dabigkahuna

    dabigkahuna Well-Known Member

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    Go ahead and update the score list. I've been racking my brain trying to go through all of them again. I'm curious as to whether they are relatively simple ones (which means I'm blind to a simple solution) or one of the more complicated ones that potentially have so many different approaches that it is easy to miss a new solution.

    Then we need to start checking out the ones we have not maxed out and see if any of them are because of a different approach that one of us missed. I suspect most are just raw speed though.

    I think the biggest thing I'd like to figure out is how to get a quicker response on those with moving rocks. On rare occasions I may get a quick reaction, but usually moving too quick just won't work. I suspect most of my lower scores are on those levels.
     
  11. mQuark

    mQuark Member

    Nov 17, 2014
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    Hi Guys!
    We are uploading the update right now, Apple will probably hold it for a few days but I think you will find it a big improvement. With the update tapping can be useful to create new solutions. Also that delay after room restart is gone, that will probably save you a few 0.01s :)

    Thank you for playing and spreading the word of our game.
    You guys are in the credits in the update!

    Best regards!

    Michael (Developer - Space Forest Dilemma)
     
  12. saosijs

    saosijs Well-Known Member

    Mar 24, 2012
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    Appreciate that, Michael! And the two "secret" levels are 55 and 88. That's 1.41 seconds for you BigK, so should give you a .55s lead again :D
     
  13. dabigkahuna

    dabigkahuna Well-Known Member

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    Cool - in the credits. Only had that happen once before (the last original Appleworks update for the old Apple II computers - I was one of a small number of beta testers and found an important bug no one else noticed).

    I looked at the two secret levels. #88 was one I was worried about since there are a number of options. Wasn't too happy about 55 either! Nothing in the timing gave me much of a clue but at least I knew where to focus my time. That let me finally solve (just random guessing) 88 with tying the top score.

    I improved 55 enough to get first place, but still almost half a second behind so you must be doing something different. In any case, it keeps you close enough that if you can catch up on some of my 28 top scores, you'll pass me again unless I figure out an even better solution.
     
  14. dabigkahuna

    dabigkahuna Well-Known Member

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    OH, figured out 55 - and bettered the score. But strange, I'm sure I took that approach before without success. I guess I must have been just a bit too slow so they crashed and I gave up too soon on it. Thanks for the scores. Now I can start working on the levels you or I lack points and see if one of us missed a strategy.
     
  15. dabigkahuna

    dabigkahuna Well-Known Member

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    #75 dabigkahuna, Dec 9, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2014
    Saosijs, here is info - probably not real useful - for the levels you are behind me.

    15 - just quick fingers and the proper timing. Nothing special that I can think of.
    16 - Timing. Pain to get right. Not sure of the order after the first two. I can experiment more later again.
    17 - Can't remember the order. When I get time I'll see if I can figure it out again. 18 - Timing - I think the order is obvious.
    19 - Raw speed going clockwise from top left or counter-clockwise from bottom right. But you know that.
    20 - Mostly speed, but there are different approaches and maybe you aren't using mine. I start from the bottom and hit the two white ones, then a quick loop to catch the top left one and zoom over to get the one on the right. Just broke that record again testing it. And I think more may be possible.

    I'll cover more later.

    As for my worst levels, I assume #9 is also just about speed, circling the field clockwise or counter-clockwise?

    BTW, you probably know this too, but I sometimes find holding my phone in landscape works better for some levels. Also, such as on #9 where it doesn't seem to matter where you start, my fingers will do better starting at some locations more than others.

    Messed around with my ipad mini and was surprised that in 1x mode it is a little smaller than the iphone 6 size. I hadn't realized that so it may be impossible for me to match some of those top scores if they were done on a mini. Anyone know what device Helgonet007 uses? He has a few scores I have been completely frustrated in trying to match.
     
  16. PQuark

    PQuark Active Member

    I think Helgonet is on an iPhone 6. I'll let him know he's causing you guys some headache :)
     
  17. dabigkahuna

    dabigkahuna Well-Known Member

    Mar 5, 2011
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    Well, if he has an iphone 6, we've even. I did manage to match one of his scores today, but 61 and 81 have had me stumped forever. Not even sure if I have the best strategy.

    Playing with the ipad mini a bit longer, I can see some advantage (less screen to cover) but a big disadvantage. It is easy to go outside the boundary when in 1x mode and when you do that, the game loses your touch completely. When the game goes edge to edge, it is easier to stay within boundaries. So, if you are really good at controlling your finger motion, the mini may have the most potential - but I sure don't have that much control!

    Still need 11 levels to max out. And maybe I'll figure out something for other complicated levels.
     
  18. dabigkahuna

    dabigkahuna Well-Known Member

    Mar 5, 2011
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    Okay, more observations on levels saosijs is behind on:

    23: Not sure about this though certainly speed is critical. I'm pretty sure I got the top score by taping the bottom white arrow, swipe down, and then continue to the top. But when trying today, the colored arrow crashed almost every time into the arrow above. Shouldn't happen (it should have pivoted). I think saosijs said something about this - that contact with a pivoting arrow can involve two steps - one to pivot and one to tell it to move. So it seems that maybe when I move really fast, I hit the pivot arrow before it pivots and it goes up and crashes. I experimented with starting on the next white arrow (3rd from top), dragging down and then up. Sure enough, even though the pivot arrow should be aiming the wrong way when I hit it, it usually goes across instead. In any case, the basic strategy usually doesn't work anyway because it is hard to get all the arrows to move. Lot's of repetition hoping for success.

    24: Pretty sure I started in bottom right corner and moved counter-clockwise. Need very slight delay between 2nd and 3rd block. Testing didn't get me close to the top score today so I'm not sure about the tactic but think it is right.

    25: Another just about speed, I think.

    29: Hit bottom pivot arrow and slide up as quick as possible. The rest is timing the white arrow to launch as soon as possible but not hit the other arrows.

    I know, probably not much useful in all that.
     
  19. saosijs

    saosijs Well-Known Member

    Mar 24, 2012
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    Been gone over your descriptions, and played some of them again. Did it in 1x mode on my mini and I should have done that from the beginning! 2x mode feels sloppy now, when going back to it. In 1x mode and contracting my muscles so the movement comes out like an (almost!) not controlled "twitch" gives the best results. 19 is now 0.12 too and I bettered 20. 20 is about what feels right. The .18 I got starting with the left purple, then right, then left, and finally down. Sorry to break your streak! :)
    23 is a real interesting one. I'm waiting for the update to play it more. Let's see how that goes. Currently, going fast, there is always one or more blocks not moving. 0.05 is completely unreachable
     
  20. dabigkahuna

    dabigkahuna Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, if you can keep yourself from going offscreen, I suspect the mini is an advantage - but I keep going off screen!

    Also, the "twitch" description is a great one. Another way I think about it - and it may not be clear to others - is to take level 23 as an example. I have to move down and then back up as fast as possible. Well, I focus on the up stroke, leaving the down as nothing more than a twitch leading into the main stroke. However, I turn it to landscape mode so it really is side to side. Funny thing though. When playing it a bunch just now, I actually got my best scores (0.10 - so not the record) then starting next to the top. Makes no sense since it means I'm moving further. It also seemed to be better about picking up each arrow though still misses most of the time. And I even think it might have been better when the landscape mode put the purple one on the right. Could be tiny differences in game response. Certainly there will be advantages, varying from player to player, in one approach over another when you are dealing with such small time differences.

    But since the record is 0.05, I also think it was done by starting right next to the purple block.

    I matched your level 20, but darn if I can see how you did it that way. My way covers about 2 screen distances. Yours is closer to three! I wonder if you got the hang of it my way you might be even better.

    As for my streak, it is #9 that bugs me the most. #41 next. Play them a lot with nothing to show for my efforts. I do wonder if some of the more complicated levels have solutions we just haven't seen. Heck, some of them I can't remember the solution I've already used!

    Interesting game when you can play 100 levels and the gap between 1st and 2nd is just 0.53. And I know you can pick up more just, mostly, it just seems to be about speed and you probably fail more often going off the screen on your mini.
     

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