Universal Sorcery 3 (by inkle)

Discussion in 'iPhone and iPad Games' started by PeteOzzy, Apr 22, 2015.

  1. IndyJohn

    IndyJohn Well-Known Member

    Dec 13, 2014
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    Good general tip -- start out bidding stuff you do NOT have. If your opponent ups the bid for that number, call.
     
  2. pendell

    pendell Well-Known Member

    Jan 2, 2015
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    WRT swindlestones, I try to keep my bids *plausible*.

    For instance, let's say there are 5 dice for both of us, and I have 2 3s in my hand. I will start my bidding with 1 3 in the hopes that the other guy will make a bid and show his hand.

    If I believe his bid -- say, he bids 2 4s -- I'll either bid 3 4s (following his bid, regardless of what I have in my hand) or 3 3s (the 2 in my hand plus, if he has 5 dice, he probably has AT LEAST 1 3, so it's a safe bet.)

    Let him raise and then make a gut call -- how likely is this call? For instance, if the bid is 5 3s and I have 2 3s in hand -- then he has to have rolled 3 3s in order to make the bid work.

    That's unlikely. I call. Most of the time, I'm right and win.

    It's a matter of having a good idea for percentages and trying to make plausible but high bids, in the hope of forcing the opponent into overbidding, at which point we pull the rug out from under him with a call.

    When playing against someone who bluffs a lot, I mostly ignore his bids and go off my own hand, since I can't believe anything he tells me in his bid.

    If I have an unusual hand -- 4 4s , say. Then I bid up to those 4 4s. Against a bluffer, he'll likely call and lose. Against a conservative opponent like the woman under the tree, just bid low and she'll eventually go over. She hardly ever calls unless the bid is completely outlandish.

    It's easy when the enemy is down to 1 die. In which case, I bid 1 1. His next bid will almost certainly be what he's hlding in his hand. So all I have to do is bid above that and I'll have him next round. It doesn't ALWAYS work, but frequently enough.


    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
     
  3. Cheezzhead

    Cheezzhead Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2015
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    In addition to what Brian said, you also have to have a little experience with how the AI works. While this iteration of Sorcery has bluffing opponents (which they seldom did in S!2), their follow-up bids are usually very predictable:

    Let's say you both have 4 dice, and you have 3 threes. If you bid those 3 threes, the AI can do one of three things:

    1: If he increases the bid, he likely has (at least) 1 three in his own hand. the AI is still very predictable here - increasing your bid with 1 three means he has one in his hand, increasing it with 2 threes means he has two.
    2: If he goes for another bid, he probably has no threes, but his hand allows for a good alternative (any other bid he makes HAS to be above 3 threes); so whatever bid he makes (3 fours or 4 of anything) - he probably has a good portion of it in his hand.
    3: If he doesn't have threes and doesn't have any good alternative (which is very unlikely), he'll usually call.

    So what can you learn from this? Well, for starters, if you do have 3 threes in your hand, you probably don't want to come out with a 3-threes bid - he either increases the bid to 4 (which will very likely be the highest possible bid) or he bids something else, taking the initiative away from you (his bid may or may not be correct, but you don't have any influence over it).
    Instead, you will want to bid 2 threes. If he outbids you with 3 threes now, you will know he has a three in his hand and you can return with 4 threes (which will, again, probably be the highest possible bid). If he doesn't have a three and bids something else entirely, you'll have one more 'safe' bid left (3-threes) which could very likely be the highest possible bid; and if not, it may put him over the edge of bluffing.

    Obviously, there are alot of maybe's in this example and alot of variation which can screw up this strategy, but I find it works more often than not (and it's a good example of the thought process you need for this game).

    Here's another example, specifically in the late-game. Let's say you have 3 dice and your opponent one. You have to start the bidding process. Your dice are 2 ones and 1 three. The goal is to figure the highest bid possible, and then minimize the chance that your opponent will make said bid. Let's go through all the options:

    Opponent has a 1: The highest bid will be 3 ones.
    Opponent has a 2: The highest bid will be 2 ones.
    Opponent has a 3: The highest bid will be 2 threes.
    Opponent has a 4: The highest bid will be 2 ones.

    In simpler terms; if your opponent has a die that you share, the highest bid will increase to whatever he has; otherwise the highest bid is in your hands (2 ones, in this case). Next, let's look at how your opponent decides his responding bid.

    The AI's bidding process will be simple: assuming he doesn't bluff (which he rarely does, but I'll cover that later) he will always bid his own die. So if he has, for example, 1 three, he will bid 1 three if possible, and if you already bid higher then that (1-four, 2-ones, etc) he will bid 2 threes (and if you bid higher than THAT he will attempt 3 threes, etc.). This also means that his bid will always reveal to you what he has - in other words, after his first bid you will already know the maximum possible bid.

    With all this information, let's say you bid all that you have (which alot of people do in this case) - 2 ones. Here's how your opponent will respond:

    Opponent has a 1: He will bid 3 ones, and will have made the highest possible bid (not good)
    Opponent has a 2: He will bid 2 twos, which you can safely call (with no twos in your hand and only one die in your opponent's, 2-twos is impossible)
    Opponent has a 3: He will bid 2 threes, and will again have made the highest possible bid.
    Opponent has a 4: He will bid 2 fours which you can safely call.

    So in half of the cases you will very likely lose (unless you can bluff your way out of it). Instead, let's use the first example as a guide and bid only 1 one. Here's how it plays out:

    Opponent has a 1: He will bid 2 ones, and you can counter with 3 ones (which is the highest bid).
    Opponent has a 2: He will bid 1 two and you can counter with 2 ones (the highest bid).
    Opponent has a 3: He will bid 1 three and you can counter with 2 threes (the highest bid).
    Opponent has a 4: He will bid 1 four and you can counter with 2 ones (the highest bid).

    So basically you win every time! The only problem is that your opponent can bluff. I won't go into details since this post is long enough as it is, but if you write out the possibilities like I did above it should be easy to win in most cases.

    While I understand that this sounds like way too much work for just one single round of Swindlestones, the thought process is very fast and after doing it a few times you'll start recognizing the patterns naturally. I honestly win 99% of the games while never having to think more then a few seconds about what to do; the only times I lose is because the opponent bluffed exponentially or I was really unlucky with my dice.

    TLDR: Try to think about what your opponent could have and what that means for the 'highest possible bid' - then try to steer the game so that you will be the one to make that bid. Every bid your opponent makes tells you more about his hand. Bluffing complicates things.
     
  4. PaleTunaPls

    PaleTunaPls Member

    Jun 1, 2014
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    Thanks for the advice everyone! I'll try your methods.
     
  5. imaloony

    imaloony Member

    Apr 26, 2015
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    Hmmm, so in my first playthrough I had trouble getting the Sun Serpent. Now in my second playthrough, I can't seem to get the fire serpent. I put him off because I lacked sand early on and thought it would be easy to get him to attack me. Not so, as he won't seem to show up anymore. I only have him and time left to take down and now I'm a little frustrated.
     
  6. pendell

    pendell Well-Known Member

    Jan 2, 2015
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    I've never had a problem finding him. Go to the northern desert in current time and look around just south of the carving on the cliff. You should find some track. Interpret them as dragon tracks and follow them. If need be, go to sleep. He'll attack you in your sleep, and that's the time to tell him to eat sand and die :) .
     
  7. IndyJohn

    IndyJohn Well-Known Member

    Dec 13, 2014
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    #267 IndyJohn, May 4, 2015
    Last edited: May 4, 2015
    NBAS Theory ...

    Since the game seems to remember previous visits to the Time Serpent even with rewinds, here's my idea. Start with a clean game -- reset to prologue. Kill the Time Serpent using beacons. Rewind to a point when you haven't used any beacons but after you have encountered the 7 spirits. Proceed from there and visit Time Serpent island. Find it already dead???

    Just a theory.
     
  8. hotscorn

    hotscorn Member

    Apr 29, 2015
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    Love the idea, so I just tried it on my existing game.
    Let Time go the first time so he'd make the time-path, then I pointed all four eastern towers on his island and visited him to see him die. Then I rewound to the first tower just after I let him go, took the zip over the mountain, and went to meet him again. I was dead before I met him.
     
  9. IndyJohn

    IndyJohn Well-Known Member

    Dec 13, 2014
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    #269 IndyJohn, May 4, 2015
    Last edited: May 4, 2015
    Ah well ... worth a shot.

    Another idea -- convert to the God of Gods and pray for aid?

    EDIT:
    Tried this without resetting by rewinding in current game where I had already visited the Time Serpent. Yb'ran did speak when I landed on the Time Serpent island, but when i went to the Pit the usual happened. Since Yb'ran spoke on the island, it does make me want to test this from a clean restart. There is not a specific option to pray when you have him, but maybe it will appear (or another spell option?)
     
  10. IndyJohn

    IndyJohn Well-Known Member

    Dec 13, 2014
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    Ok that didn't work. But I found a very strange vision in connection with a particular object.

    Swim (destroying your provisions) to the shore of the Time Serpent island. If you have purple leaves you will be given the option to eat them. Do it.
     
  11. Cheezzhead

    Cheezzhead Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2015
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    Wait, where do I get
    Purple Leaves
     
  12. IndyJohn

    IndyJohn Well-Known Member

    Dec 13, 2014
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    Steal some from the herbalist on the island. I think they can also be found in the forest foraging
     
  13. Cheezzhead

    Cheezzhead Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2015
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    No, those are mushrooms. Thanks though, will try it out :D
     
  14. IndyJohn

    IndyJohn Well-Known Member

    Dec 13, 2014
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    Mushrooms are by the lake in the woods. You can get leaves foraging on the western side of the woods in the Forest Glade just north of the spot where you can fight the Fire Serpent. They might be a different kind of leaf though.
     
  15. Aurelius

    Aurelius Member

    Jan 27, 2014
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    What does the vision say?
     
  16. IndyJohn

    IndyJohn Well-Known Member

    Dec 13, 2014
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    It's a weird dream. Screenshot attached.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. IndyJohn

    IndyJohn Well-Known Member

    Dec 13, 2014
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    Still thinking NBAS

    When approaching the Time Serpent on the island, you normally don't have the chance to cast spells when you get to the pit -- no beacons on him, he kills you, 3 you kill him.

    Has anyone made an initial approach (from clean game since you die with 1 or 2 beacons if you encountered previously in the same game) to the Time Serpent with either 1 or 2 beacons shining on him? Are you able to cast spells in the pit? What spells? SSS as option? What does he say if so?
     
  18. Cheezzhead

    Cheezzhead Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2015
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    With 2 beacons, the text notes that
    the Serpent rears his head, quickly notices the 2 lights pointed at him, and then proceeds to kill you anyway.
    I doubt it will be any different with 1 beacon.
     
  19. IndyJohn

    IndyJohn Well-Known Member

    Dec 13, 2014
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    Was that the first approach to the Serpent in a fresh (no rewind from prior Time Serpent encounter) game?
     
  20. Kaboobie

    Kaboobie Well-Known Member

    Apr 28, 2015
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    In the forest you find six-lobed leaves, not purple leaves. You can light them on fire with the tinderbox but there's no option to eat them.
     

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