Yeah I wanted the first option, but seeing as how we can get the second earlyr then yes, I vote option 2
Haven't posted yet here, just have been quietly playing away. Great game Raptisoft! And in terms of the question above, definitely option 2. Make sure the graveyard is creepy!
Because from what I heard, fire and lighting is like a curving flamethrower or flame whip. Anyway, what do lighting and magic missile do when together?
Space it out? My vote on the new content would be to space it out a little. It would be great to rush out the graveyard, but it might be unnecessary to get extra stuff so soon after 2.0. That should keep the fans busy for weeks while you make progress on the Archer.
I vote option 2. The estimated time is only like 1-2 weeks, while the archer could take months. I'd rather have a new mode sooner, then a new class later.
Well, the problem I have with this logic is that I think he's going to implement both of his ideas, and he's asking which we think he should do first. That is, if he spends a month working on the archer, then we'll have a timeline like this: 2.0..(1month)..Archer..(2weeks)..Graveyard. So, we'll only have two weeks to "digest" an entirely new class! Following your logic, then, we have to discuss which one will occupy the players for a longer period of time - the new features of 2.0, or a whole new class? I want to say that I'll spend more time with the Archer class than I will with 2.0, which means that we should go ahead and get the graveyard so we'll have something to occupy us until Archer comes and gives us a lot of playtime. Of course, this assumes that the dev will take a break after graveyard/Archer. If not, that changes the analysis. My vote is... Graveyard!!! Question, though. Will the graveyard be something that the player can visit at any point in the game?
you get lightning balls that seek and stick to enemies for a few moments, arcing to other enemies. so you get like 4 bolts at once firing, they all hit monsters and arc at each other. it actually lights up the room a lot prettier than lightning ever did,e specially with a high arc skill its AMAZING. my big disappointment was finding out that even though I had lightning 11 it bore almost no impact on the "damage" part of the fusion; still, it kills monsters very very very very very good.
I'd go with the graveyard, would make the current game more complete in allowing some folks to scratch their grind itch.
Well, I'll do it in either one of two ways... no, three ways. I haven't decided which yet: 1. Add a new character to town, a sexton, who gives you some back story about his cemetary, Solomon's been up to the dickens there, blah blah. So by talking to him, you can go in and grind a bit (grinds will be like arena challenges... you'd say "fight x waves of skeletons" or "fight x waves of demons" etc). This could also give you a way to earn money if you get in one of those stuck situations with no money, no health, and no will to live. 2. When you press play, give the option of "normal game" or "The Graveyard." In this case, the Graveyard would sort of be a completely seperate game, with high scores and whatnot. Sort of like having Minigore embedded in Solomon's Keep. 3. Implement both of these. This probably will mean a few extra days, but it's probably worth it. On another note, I was amused by the guy who said four weeks for archer, then two weeks for graveyard = six weeks altogether. I take some time off in-between, man! If I didn't, my brain would pop like wet firecracker, and future updates of Solomon's Keep would probably end up with Hoggy as a playable character or something mental like that.
But who doesn't want to murder zombies and skeletons and demons and with a cute little piggy that's been teleported into a really strange 3d land even though all he wants to do is save his girlfriend I'm more in favor of either having both or only in-game and not a completely seperate game mode.
I'd say to not have an in-game version whatsoever, or at least if there is an in-game version, it should only be available after the player has defeated Solomon. Kind of a "Now that Solomon's dead, we can go explore the graveyard, but it's still really dangerous!" kind of scenario. It feels like giving the player the ability to grind takes a big part out of the strategy that this game requires. Plus, it's short enough where if you honestly get stuck, you can just start over. In fact, I really like the idea that the graveyard could be an extension of the game rather than a change in game-play or a separate mode. Then you have the best of all worlds: Less cluttered and simpler main menu, keep the gameplay the same, and add potentially hours onto the time of a single playthrough. The best part about this way: You can still keep high scores for the graveyard, then that means that your strategic skill in choosing abilities in the tower itself has a huge influence on how well you can do in the graveyard. That is, a really good high score wouldn't just reflect on your ability to shoot down monsters in a few waves; it would measure your ability to get through the whole game, so we could really use it to see who's better at the game as a whole. I think that by far the most important thing this game has going for it is the complex level-up system and the fact that the game encourages intelligent strategy. Thus, I think that a lot of design choices should be made to increase the impact of good/bad strategy on the game. In short - My votes in order of most preferred to least preferred: 1)the graveyard to be unlocked at the end of a playthrough. 2)Archer class to be implemented before the graveyard 3)graveyard be a completely separate mode 4)graveyard be available to the player at any point throughout the game Ahh, and sorry you misinterpreted what I meant. I was just using the 2 weeks + 4 weeks to show that that guy's logic didn't really make a lot of sense the way he presented it. Of course you need breaks.
Lefrisbee nailed it. The game is beautifully balanced as is. I think it would be hard to add the graveyard without damaging that balance, but it would be awesome to have a "fight till you drop" type game to play through after you've beaten the keep.
This is the big concern with the in-game version. On the other hand, some people can get frustrated, and everyone likes to grind. Version 2.0 is longer (I used to be able to beat the game in 20 minutes, now it's more like an hour on average) so that might factor in-- I'll be watching these boards with interest after 2.0 is approved (still waiting for review from Apple, FYI). I'm thinking the "seperate game" one is going in for sure, where you simply start up with a new character and play as long as you can for a high score-- i.e. there will be a typical dual stick shooter option off the main menu. If I allow grinding in-game, there will have to be special conditionals to make abusing it more painful, such as an experience curve so that if you gain a level in the graveyard, you have to gain levels in game before the graveyard experience yields fast xp again. But I do have a few ideas along those lines. But you are right that putting the graveyard in-game will throw the balance off. Since SK isn't really a "high score" game, though, I'm not sure it's such a bad thing. Plus, it would give me a new feat to add.
The biggest problem I have with this, though, is that the Graveyard is going to be DLC. I feel that DLC should add additional content, not completely change the content of the game. Adding the graveyard at the end doesn't change the existing gameplay, it gives the player something to do with their character after they spent a whole playthrough customizing and leveling-up, and it capitalizes on the strategic aspects of the game. I've played through this game at least ten times, and every time I get the "What's next?" feeling after beating Solomon. I spend a lot of time and effort on my characters, balancing stats and items and everything else to make the character as good as he can be. Then, suddenly, Solomon falls, and then game over. Putting the graveyard at the end would completely solve this feeling. That is, the graveyard would give the player a benchmark to how well he did. "Wow, I lasted 12 challenges with that lightning build!" (Exaggerated for cheesy effect.) That way, you fight until your ability stops you from going further, rather than the game deciding when you are done. One of the biggest aspects in a game is the satisfying feeling you get when you beat it; this is an area that I think SK could execute a little better. That's an excellent point, that we'll have to wait until 2.0 sees wider gameplay to know how the Graveyard would fit in to it all. But especially if it's more than twice as long, why would you want a grinding level that makes playing through the game even longer? The in-game Graveyard encourages that the player stop ever floor or two and go grind for a little while. I've read a lot of reviews for this game, and many of them praise the fact that the gameplay is somewhat short and sweet. The way I'm suggesting, the Graveyard will rather be an additional option at the end if the player feels like they want to keep using their hard-earned character. The most legitimate concern with a post-game Graveyard is that the players still have no way of grinding in-game. But as I've said before, that's a good thing. The game doesn't need to be too long, and having no grinding allows you to control the length and difficulty of the game. If a player is having a hard time, he should reset and try a different build, although in my experience this game isn't very difficult (I'm sure the harder settings in 2.0 will be a different story!). Also, if there is grinding, then there is a lot of pressure for the player to just go level-up a lot rather than choose carefully what he's doing. You might think of some way to balance this into the game, but either way, the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. What I meant by a high score is that maybe at the Graveyard there could be somewhat-random challenges that get progressively harder; that is, completing 12 challenges is a lot harder than completing 8 challenges, both in number of enemies, strength of enemies, and intervals between level-ups, Gold acquired, and allowed visits back to town. Thus if you're planning on making a separate Graveyard mode and a post-playthrough mode, we would all have two running numbers showing how well we've played the game. A "well, I have a 22 in Graveyard 1 and only a 16 in Graveyard 2... what do you have?" kind of situation. Just throwing ideas out there.
That was a very good rant, and it is going to influence how I implement this. I will have to see how 2.0 washes out, but you may have convinced me of your viewpoint. So you want to win the game and then have an opportunity to see how long your character can last in the graveyard, eh? I like that, though it might get a little boring without levelups. I could make this iteration of the graveyard really hard, though, so that, like, two minutes would represent superhuman ability. That might be fun. It could simply dump you into the graveyard before showing Victory, basically a bonus round. I will wait to see how 2.0 shakes out. I'm going to see how in-app purchases work with Hoggy first anyway... since I have like 35 unpublished levels in Hoggy that I want to offer. Thank you for the very thoughtful considerations. --John
No problem! I'm glad that my thoughts were helpful! I think there could definitely still be leveling-up in the Graveyard, though. It could be more of an extension than a bonus level. To give an analogy, your success on each floor is largely dependent on the choices you make on every preceding floor as well as that floor itself. The Graveyard could work the same way - you still have to play well and make good level-up choices, but how well you did battling through the tower has a huge impact on your success. Stopping level-ups in the Graveyard would, like you said, make it boring if it lasted for more than a few minutes. Also, that's a really interesting idea to make it very short; that's certainly something that I hadn't thought of, and would be a fun challenge. I'm sure whatever you do will be great! I'm glad this thread is here; I'm using it as an outlet for my excitement for 2.0. EDIT: To everyone reading this thread: Y'all should all download and rate the lite version when it comes out, even if you have already bought the full version. That will help the game get recognized on the top lists, which as y'all know is really important to the success of a game on the App Store. Just reminding y'all.
