I'll be honest: I don't like how the core game REQUIRES you to build defensively when this is a hack and slash. In diablo-like games, defensive builds aren't required until waaaaay later, well after you beat the game. I think the disconnect is you're marketing to the arpg market but not giving them the game they expect, nor is there any transparency on how effective the stats actually are so people can't figure out how bloody important armor is, even on Mage characters. You don't need armor for mages and archers in arpgs, it goes against what the class stands for, but you do in this one so the whole thing is counterintuitive. It's your game so make the game you want to make, but I'd highly suggest you either explain the importance of the armor stat IN GAME to people, or find a different way to mitigate damage for archers and mages that's reliable. Because at the moment, everyone playing is dying horribly to what feels like unfair deaths and that's not fun for anyone. There's a lot more people putting the game down forever than complaining here.
I think the game is prety nice the way it is buuuutt, I totally agree with you that the defenses (armor and resist) should be better explained early in the game, took me alot of deaths to figure it out, and probably many players dont break that barrier and quit before that. Maybe for next patch, extend the tutorial a little bit to make that info clear But now we neeed infinityyyyy dungeon! <o/
When Life leech was king in D3, you stacked Life Leech %, resists/armor, max Dps. I don't see the difference here. Every single builds of every classes, have always required high resists in Diablo 3. But! I've already mentioned it to the Dev, we NEED to see a detailed view of the characters stats. I'm talking about dodge chance, atk rating, mana regen, crit %, etc. These games require that we see and understand how every single points put in a stat affects your character. Right now, we have Dps, armor and resists. And even those don't say much. I also want to know how much dmg Round attack does and what's the radius of it. I want to know why Reflect damage is so bad ;p Same goes for Traps damage numbers. How much? What's the AoE? Is there a Dot effect? If so, it reduces the speed of enemies by what %? Without these, as well as a detailed view of our characters defense and attack rating, we have no understanding of the games mechanics, and I'm afraid will reduce greatly the replayability of the game But for now, like everyone said, just give us Infinite dungeons
The difference is that you dont need that until end game in D3 (you can get to max level without a real build or any synergy in your armor either and probably wont die at all while doing that) and even then you're not >forced< to use a defensive build, unless you want to go as deep as possible in rift dungeons. You could still use a glass canon build while still being able to rip through enemy groups. The problem is, D3 provides much more skill diversity and skills which compliments every game style (glass canon/tank/support) and gives you almost everything you need to go with either build, let alone full armor set bonuses, where you basically have to adapt to a specific game style or passive skills, etc, etc, etc... In this game, if an enemy shoots at you from off-screen which will kill you in one shot unless you skilled resistances, well, then there is not much you can do about that...except skilling resistances. It's how this game is set up. Btw, I dont remember a single enemy projectile in D3 which is as fast as some of the projectiles in this game. They are mostly slow and therefore easy to avoid if you dont push too hard. Soooo, wouldnt compare it to D3 by any means. But I still like this game a lot and I dont expect this one to be as deep as D3...that's too much to handle for one single Dev. It could still need some balancing fixes, though.
You didn't need life leech or resists. At all. I'm talking about to play the core experience. i.e. Beating the game once on normal. It's after that that things got increasingly harder and you had to start adapting. But even then there wasn't one particular stat you HAD to gear for (granted once you're doing grift 50+ things become more cookie cutter but that's not the core game) This gameplay doesn't feel natural because you're progressing through early and mid game and if you don't get pretty lucky with armor rolls on your gear you're going to start dying horribly. It doesn't feel natural and IMO armor has waaaaay too large a factor in mitigation. I should be penalized for not having tons of armor on my Mage, not instantly killed by tons of mob types, often from off-screen. Safer bet is to change armor calculations so it's not so make-or-break. Other option is what was discussed here: transparency and tutorial explanations warning people that armor is arguably the important stat. Edit: basically said the same things the guy above me said but he had a great point about projectile speed. They're hard as hell to dodge (impossible if you're mid-animation with a slow wep) and potentially lethal.
Guys, really? As I said in the post before, I totally agree on the importance of explaining how the def/resist works at the very beggining of the game. BUUUT, to say that this makes this game HARD or UNBALANCED, makes absolutetly no sense ! The game is actually prety EASY when you understand the importance of the defense, AAAND, I can't believe that (specially since most here look like really experienced in diablo or similar games) that you guys took more then, I don't know, beeing 2 hited by an archer like, 2 or 3 times in a row, to get to the conclusion that "HUMMM maybe I should invest a little in that thing called DEFENSE?".... If I went from the beggining all the way to the end game, without having ANY trouble, this would make the game (at least for me) extremely boring.... Also, the gear are SUPER cheap, you start the game with 3 cristals, or 30.000 gold. With that you can fully equip with items to actually BEAT the game....a few times ! I dont see absolutelly no point that needs BALANCE....this game may be different from diablo and others, but it is VRY balanced for the scheme that it proposes.
Please watch the video of my Mage I posted. Here it is again. https://youtu.be/76kTi5guZUc I don't seem to have problems taking hits now do I? I kill fast enough also, so I guess the good old and tried "raise you defense as you max out your Dps" still stands true ;p Nothing impossible to get and pretty standard if you ask me: you stack your main Stat, while going for Defense and life Leech %. There, you are ready to tackle the harder content and get awesome loot! Here's the thing: I also have a 1500 Dps Slyboot and he 2 shots most yellows. He's a blast to play, always on the run. He's also always on timer. It's not the games fault, I just don't have enough armor and resists, and I also have zero life leech. I get 1 shot by offscreen Daemon archers. Frustrating yes, but I sure know what to look for when I gamble for new gear: Armor. Then resists, then more Speed, atk speed, crit chance and crit %. Mana and willpower rolled as well on that piece of gear? Gamble again, it's not perfect But I want to say that Slyboot really could use some better passive defensive abilities. Mages get extra resistance by stacking Willpower, and Duraman get extra Armor with Condition. Slyboots gets... Extra speed. What could work here is a linear and progressive increase of your Dodge chance % as you raise your Speed stat, therefore improving greatly your survivability. Or you could also simply give the Slyboot a passive 20-30% dodge chance, making place at the same time for more active and engaging skills use. Skills like Evade, Regeneration and Meditation would be much better if they were an intrinsic part of the class. Think passive abilities, of course in reduced power. Because as it is now, they are very useful yes, but bring nothing exciting to the table. Worst, we have only 3 skills to choose from, so they take an unnecessary slot. I go without Meditation at the moment because I'd rather spam 2 atk spells than only 1, but the current content is also very easy.
Dude I've been gaming for 30 years. I usually make builds in MMOs that other people play. I know what I'm doing. *I* know how to fix the problem, but that doesn't mean most others will bother. They'll simply die a bunch and delete the game. I don't leave feedback based on whether I can beat the game but whether the game plays naturally enough to please the target market. This game is targeted at arpg fans, but provides very little information on stats and puts waaaay too much weight on armor without telling you how it works. It's an older style of gaming (using defense as a minimum requirement to progress to the next area... Not enough and monsters annihilate you, forcing you to grind earlier areas. Example: Secret of Mana) There's nothing WRONG with that style, it just doesn't fit arpgs usually and there's nothing to suggest this game has that component. It's not a common mechanic used anymore so for plenty of people, they won't think that going from 20-25 armor will greatly increase their survivability. Why WOULD they? It's not logical, no matter what you want to suggest is common sense. Anyways, we've gone around about it plenty. Dev either addresses it or accepts that lots will stop playing the game when they start eating "unfair deaths"
Yes, I totally agree with you regarding the "general" players, but I just don't agree that the game should be made easier (as some here are suggesting) balance regarding enemy damage, player base defense, etc ,so that people don't die as easy , or only when they mess up ALOT. Is nice to have some kind of learning curve, thats why I can't see "balancing" as an option. I think it is already prety neat on that regard. But again, I agree with you that the "going from 20 to 25 armor will greatly increase their survivability" is FAR AWAY from intuitive, and yes this should be somehow explained to new players. So when they start dieing miserably, the know where the problem is. Now regarding the retention level (the 'fast quiters'), yeah, you wana avoid having alot of that, thats true, but also, if the game is not challenging in some ways, alot of more "hardcore" players will quit not "early" but before they purchase something, and in a FREE game based on extras being sold, 90%+ of the revenue will probably come from end game "hardcore" players ho will succeed by the "challenging" part of the game. Most of the ingame purchases are aimed for those types of players. (extra slots, extra characters, extra skills etc). To sum it up, I agree that the armor/resist issue should be addressed, I just would go with more INFORMATION and less "balance" changes.
Either would help, honestly. Hopefully it gets addressed. Nothing wrong with hard games. Ideally, you want to slowly ramp up the difficulty, but that's pretty hard to accomplish. Anyways, I haven't felt much of the bug to grind gear. My Mage dies once I start getting relevant drops in the infinity dungeon or Orc swamps (tried 3 different times to cross to next town), usually to a bolt/special of some kind that insta-kills me. Once that happens a few times I maybe play the archer for a bit, but honestly it's hard to care to do more than shop the AH when drops aren't that plentiful in the game. which is NOT the d3 clone I was interested in.
You're really crying alot for someone whos playing games for 30 years. And btw, most arpgs you will be ####ed up if you only stack offensive abilities. Something someone should know after 30 years... And did you know that ppl like you killed games like wow because "you knew how the game has to be..."? Let ppl speak for themselves and please stop talking like a selfish idiot. Thanks...
If you don't get how words work, it's no skin off my back. It's not my job to convince guys like you of anything. Dev has plenty of feedback about the game and he can do with it what he pleases. Game has a lot of great qualities, but it's held back by some issues. Which is normal for small Dev companies just getting their feet wet. Good luck manbat!
Well at least we can all agree on something: stack armor and resists, and destroy shit!!! A library of some kind or an Npc that explains the games mechanics will surely be implemented, Manbat mentioned it. I just notice that Focus brings my Skyboot to 4K Dps. That's for 50% of the time he's in combat. I like it! Still gets one shotted.
Demons are indeed hard, but only until you grab some decent (not even top tier) equips. I can stand still around them now. I would even say we actually need some overpowered but RARE enemies, that can one shoot you if distracted (maybe not archer tough lol) I would like to fear something like I did when I fisrt meet the wind elementals
There's nothing to change Manbat lol. The current content is extremely easy once you built accordingly. Demons are tougher but it is to be expected. I wouldn't touch monsters balance until we get a good feeling at infinite dungeons. This is where balance should be based on, not some mid-levels guilds quests
There is one thing that i really beleave that should be addressed regarding 'balacing', and that are the 'Mythical' Itens. I just recently got a lvl50, yes, fifty!!! Mythical Armor (Orange), and guess what, the stats are almost the same if not weaker than my lvl27 fabulous armor (Purple).. Screenshot will be added in the edit! Since this itens are soooo much harder to find, I cant understand why they are in general sooo weak. From all Mythical I got, I only used three (the AOE blunt, poor stats for a lvl30 but the free AOE is great, the staff of Snail that have really nice stats, and the lvl20 belt string of toes, that also have nice stats. The others, weapons specially, are reeealy bad. This is the only thing I would 'balance' in this game, I would make the Mythical itens really Mythical!! Not just rare poor itens :/
Agreed. I've finished the story mode without having to truly focus on any stats. Did I have to make multiple runs in some instances (aside from bugs!)? Yes, but not in any mindless grinding sort of fashion. Definitely should not be made easier in any sense. Clearer? Sure, but that will come with this patch to a large extent.
i've completed the game twice. killed that fat bitch ;-) though i'm level 31 and i have orange and pink gear i still get one shot by some yellow monsters. good thing stone golems are slow too, because they hit soo hard. i'd like to get more orange gear (got 3 now) but i don't know how to get it i'll try the pvp now. cheers Manbat for a very nice game!
You should focus on nice purple/Yellow gear =) they are better in the late game since they scale with your level Orange gear have pre-defined levels, and even the high lvl ones are not that great (current patch!). Lets see if anything will change in the upcomming patch =D
