Salaries?

Don't waste your time with rubbish apps, unless for learning how to code or design apps. I've released a few myself and they all fail. I have 3 apps that make me money and average about $500/day (apps took me 9 months, 6 months and 6 months to make each). All my other apps bring in next to nothing (and each one was developed in 2-3 weeks tops). The only non-rubbish app that took me 5 months to make is called Lion Pig. This game sorta failed financially but a lot of people tend to enjoy the game so it is what it is, at least I enjoyed making it. Can't win em all!

But back to rubbish : I created a lot of these "rubbish apps" to teach myself how to make apps but after all I've learned I'm done with rubbish apps. First off there is no pride in this type of creation and it just ruins the app ecosystem.

My two cents, take it for what it is. I'm happy to say I have 2 huge projects in the works now though. Excited for a non-rubbish future!

 

Don't see the word's average/rubbish in my post.

Anyone that can earn an average of $500 a day could teach us all something at least in my world.

 

If you are referring to the post of how to make $500/day from 110 apps here is how it can easily be done:

Create apps based on popular categories/trends w/ decent graphics. Place ads in the games and make them free. If you do this alone, you will probably earn about $5/day in ad revenue per app from both banners and interstitials or maybe even video, with daily downloads at about 30-100/day depending on the app (across iOS and Android). With my low-end apps this is how they perform. So if I had 110 of them it'd be pretty easy to make $500/day. A fast way to mass produce this stuff is to buy templates and re-skin all day long. There are loads of affordable templates all over the net.

This type of business model may work for some. I think I'd rather do something else for a living, but hey, to each their own and if you enjoy it, more power to ya.

 

if one has 100+ apps in the store they have to be shovelware. With this can be made money by the pure mass of it. Like Stingman said this is a possible road but then you could also sell drugs on the street corner.

 

Unless they are just publishing other peoples apps.


Volume of apps is certainly one way to make money, but I am not sure it would really be rewarding (other than the money of course).

 

The following is a link to my post over another thread titled: "Why do you want to be a game dev"

http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=3447119&postcount=11

When one reaches that point, if 100 apps can earn 500$ a day, I'll frikin make 200 of it. When I have enough resources financially to deal with my own life, then we'll talk about making a "good game" (some call those 'vanity projects'). At that point i can release my good games under a different company name, and if it strikes it big,then the company that released the shovelware is just a secret to be swept under the carpet.

 

I'm here to make games. Though my old ones are now shit they were great in their day.

I also don't show new work because there's nothing worse than some kid shitting all over it.

 

I wish more devs would show their new games

Surely feedback is essential ? Again i've seen too many times devs 'test' games with family/friends who on the whole arent going to be too critical.

I think forums such as this are very valuable, you can have lots of free feedback and testing by a large range of different players.

Yeah some may be negative, some people might cry the second a games going to be released for one dollar etc, but surely all feedback is valuable ?

Think its better for testers to be critical early on than the game getting released and lots of people saying 'damn this isnt good....' and then after all the months (years) of work theres not many sales

 

Good point.

If you are concerned about your app/s being ripped off nothing can be worst than posting it/them in a forum of developers. If the comments are too hard to take you need to improve your Teflon exterior because those comments will be posted when you are beginning to shake you up a bit and when you are a hit because there seems to be a lot of pleasure in trying to take things down a few notches but fortunately those are the minority. You have to be concerned when the general arms length public turn against you. This is what you bought into when you got into this business.

 

Agreed family and friends will always say your game is good. That is why I am always posting stuff I do (although I mainly do it on twitter).

If you think that someone might be that negative about your game then it might say something about how popular it might be. You don't have to listen to the feedback but at least it will be genuine.

 

Exactly. It may just be that one person but say if two people who tested it said a similar thing its worth looking into the issue

 

It's forum full of potential customers too.

I can understand not wanting to share work before the game is published but I'd have thought not allowing customers to buy your work would be more damaging.
Esp in the OPs case where he believes he has an app with potential to make a million, and with his claims that the new refund policy is going to ruin his success, I can't see how ether of these two can hold any weight when several people have asked to look at his apps but he refuses.

I don't think toucharcade is made up of a bunch of kids wanting to shit all over apps either. I myself am over 30 and almost everyone I speak to one here are adults. I'd think their feedback is invaluable and honest and very useful.

 

I don't think the market is that black and white. There are a lot of apps that made it big and I am sure if they were posted here first they might have received negative comments and positive comments and a good chance no comments. The real and only true test is to have 100,000 to 250,000 downloads and let the playing public decides if it is going to fly or die. This reminds me of my art gallery days where the artist in the gallery would make negative comments about another artist and the one they were making negative comments on would out sell them. The public is the only deciding force.

 

@psj3809
Ah some interesting points for myself and the OP to consider, as we both share some feeling of "this time I shall keep it to myself until it's done". I launched under this new name in March 2014 (3 or 4 years after moving over to mobile). My announcement was via Twitter (not here at TA!) and immediately a kid instructed his followers to attack me for "spamming". I tried to forgive him when we met again, but I don't think he was sorry so I couldn't forget it anyway (some weird shit happened that week or two).

I'm all for feedback, it was back in 2012 when developing 'Attic Eyes' up to 10 random testers provided excellent feedback towards the end of development. However the game was abandoned due to a serious domestic unfortunately. This time round I just went with my best idea, but as things approach beta there is a feeling of deja vue where external people seem to break things from the inside out!

The worst part of announcements is the 'wall of silence'. Now, this time I have designed a game that should appeal to everyone. But that fear of posting a thread and watching it fall to page 2 while people rave about all-sorts of different games elsewhere...it just puts me off from posting news, I don't have a 'possy'. I would rather announce an upcoming release when the game is done, than lose motivation due to lack of interest from players in something new.


@1stSPIN
Indeed I am also concerned that cheap rip-offs would 'get there first' if I announced anything today. I have a thick enough skin to take critisism, and do enjoy picking out the good bits! It certainly is an eye opener when testers take the time to write down their desires and the likes. A little more difficult to see if negative feedback is valid though.


@Destined
No worries about family and friends testing, as they don't like games! And their brains tick-over too slowly for my liking.


@Planetman
What you need to do is find 3 like-minded folks and setup together now, anywhere. Each of you should receive 25% regardless of the amount of hours you each find/make for the greater cause (you can always kick/replace a lazy member early on, but not really later on). Or do what I do and be a one man band...but I suggest that you work in the same room as another creative type.

 

I think you are talking about partners.
A bit of advice. When you partner up do it on a game per game bases. If you are worth your salt you will remain in the group for the next game. If not it ends at that game. My best business deals were on a project per project not the overall concept. The same goes for investors. Let them invest in a game but not the company. I may be off your intended reply but I hope this bit of experience helps.

 

Of course i'm not saying this is the ONLY forum out there which will make or break a game.

But yeah in an ideal world you would get 100,000 downloads but the fact is many indies dont.

Again i just hear people talking 'big' but not backing it up, eg names of apps which they had 100,000 downloads with etc. But say if the dev released a game and 'most' well known sites arent talking about it, players arent talking about it either, just time to move on i would say.

I just see a fair bit of marketing gumpf here, yeah you can pay people to download it and other fake stuff but if a games a bad one its a bad one.

So what did you do with your flappy bird clone - Peniguin ? (Did you honestly release it with that spelling mistake ?)

 

Getting 100k downloads now is a different story than a couple years ago. It was easier then. Less market saturation. Less competition. Totally different playing field. I have a game that has gotten about 400k downloads (Apple Avengers) on iOS and only 60k downloads on Google Play. This was actually the first game I ever made. That's 400k over 2.5 years though. I think what is more important than just 100k + downloads (as I have a few apps w/ these numbers) is getting 100k FAST and right up front. In other words... 100k downloads probably won't help your app catch on with the public. Apple Avengers consistenly averages 300/DL / day now on iOS for the past year. For the first year downloads were much higher, with dozens of days hitting 1500/DL / day w/ no user acquisition at all. It's ASO, not word of mouth or anything else. The game did not catch on but it's optimized somewhat well for an indie game which is why it gets downoads. Now with that said imagine if you get featured by Apple, generate 400k downloads in your first few days to a week and chart high in the free charts... possibly top 10. Now THIS is a way to see if your app will catch on w/ the public. Hitting high downloads is not really what will make the difference. It's charting well that makes the difference. And getting 100k downloads in a day requires a big apple feature, massive User Acquisition or a Pewdiepie feature. All not easy things to come by.

I do think it's also important to note that you should not give up on your products if you spent a lot of time and money making them. I had a game that I launched almost a year ago called Running Quest. It was a horrible launch, where the game ran super laggy on iPad and had glitches and bugs galore. You might be wondering how I even released this in such a state. Long story and can be saved for another post, but I tell you one thing : I learned from this! Over time I did fix most things and improve on everything I possibly could, and a lot of people ended up enjoying the game. Anyhow, my point is that if I just left it alone, bug ridden, low user response, it would never have improved and would never have started making money and I would never have obtained the interest of a Chinese Publisher who I have created an alternate version of the game and it now generates me quite a bit of money (prefer not to say). Regardless, just because you get a bad response from people does not mean you cannot learn from it. If you are making just another flappy clone, catch the falling apple in the bucket game or w/e the hell... then don't post on forums cause no one cares about that game at this point. People want quality, and quality can come in small packages, but it's gotta be unique.

The biggest mistakes I have made is not promoting my products and getting as much feedback as possible. I may consider just releasing games under respectable publishers in the future like FDG, Chillingo, Noodlecake or something else. I'm planning to only put time into quality games from here on out and I believe if you make a quality game, why not give yourself the edge and pursue a quality publisher like FDG or something? It's better to make a lot of money and give away a % than make nearly no money by releasing yourself. Unless of course you have the hookup at Apple, in which case hook me up!

 

@Stingman that was a really good read thanks for the insight.

 

Yes selected the name because it is a .com name and I think it is cute.

Peniguin will get a few modifications. I really like the idea the ability to move over the ice cubes etc. I think this game will have the legs it takes to get into the race.

I already have 2 other games built with Peniguin which also look like they have potential.

re 100,000 downloads. Don't go for the buy a download deal it is like buying sex, you will only end up with some type of disease. You have to advertise and find unique ways to advertise. If you game is good and you have 100,000 players playing it as soon as possible it could go viral then all of the people you are trying to get to write about your game will be writing about it. Most of the reviewers are after the fact and will jump on board because it will damage their review career if they don't. Then even if they slam your game both good and bad press is good. They need to talk about you, it is free advertising. All you need to do is your best so that players will come back and play your game again. If they like it that is all that counts.