It gets old reading all this moaning and groaning. Rarely do games get this much complaining. Hey, I hate the freemium switch too, but I understand why they had to do it. Now let's move on.
This is worse than Dead Trigger thread!!! So, are you the new President of the Real Racing 3 Defense Squad??? TMZ wants to know...
RR3 and Dead Trigger - the two most aggresive threads in the TA forum history In other news, The Dead Trigger Forum Flame War Refugee Camp is now The Dead Trigger And RR3 Flame War Refugee Camp Gonna need a whole lot more marshmallows
I'd like to comment on this here. I didn't enter the game until June of 2010 when I bought my iPad. Prior to that it was full price console games. So when I got my iPad, I proceeded to download the games I wanted at the relative premium prices. But at that time, the "price drops and freebies" section was so active, it became a good place to go and check things out from time to time. But I had no problem buying games at launch and at full price. World of goo, sword and Sworcery, Carcassonne, ticket to ride, etc, etc, etc. But then there's also a divide that's met. One where quality and price do not converge. Many of the games that have dropped in price often times tend to be average at BEST. And I honestly can't count how much I've spent on launch games that were maybe decent in concept, but never followed through in execution. So where's the balance? What came first? Developers trying to shake things up by lowering their prices, or people bitching about the price of apps being too high? I come from Xbox and PSN console gaming, back in 2007 stuff didn't go on sale, well maybe once a year, so you bought it at full price now or maybe saw a minor savings in a year plus after it launched. Once in a blue moon a console game would drop at $40, but I can count those gems on one hand. I came into this game expecting nothing. Then I got burned and burned and burned paying for mediocre game after mediocre game. That gets old fast. Sure you aren't dropping $60 per game, but it's easy to spend $60 in short order on the App Store. I can't count the times that I've bought apps to never play them again. But I think everything started to fall apart in a serious way when developers would gamble and launch their game at a price point, and we would jump on the game and snap it up. The game wouldn't do great because of whatever reason and then the price would drop in a week. Hell, maybe it would go free. That just kept happening and happening. See, we are to blame to some extent, it's true, but it takes two to tango. Well, three maybe. Gamers who have through their own sake of being cheap, or the Pavlovian response of "new game, seems interesting, been burned, they're just going to drop it to a dollar in a few days, I'll wait" Developers who don't plan properly and gamble with their marketing strategy and fumble the launch, or decide they want to shake things up, or whatever. Apple who are clear in simply favoring the biggest game in town. Literally and figuratively. Sure they'll spotlight some pretty amazing apps, gesundheit for example (seriously people, who the hell is going to spell that?!), but who revel in promoting massive sales that the big names have on the App Store. Actually, there is a fourth. And that's EA. I believe that EA has been the biggest kick in the nuts to this stupidity behind pricing. Now, don't get me wrong, I've taken ea Up on every sale they've had... But how can you respect a company that puts an app in the store at a price of $10+ and then just because they can drops it to $1... Multiple times throughout the year. For all their apps. Wait, so this app that is worth $10 is now selling for a dollar?!? how can any other developer match that kind of rock bottom pricing? How can they only justify a discount of 33% when these $10 games are 90+% off,?!?!?!??!!'m,,bbon!!! Hell, we are full circle now. At the end of the day, it's still EA's fault. But Eli, don't JUST blame people for wanting things cheaper, remember it wasn't the consumer that put the first app/game on sale. Developers couldn't climb over each other fast enough to sell their product for rock bottom prices.
Scream ourselves hoarse we might, but I believe there is a great risk that we will not be able to change the minds of freemium developers, neither by posting low scores, boycotting their games, nor by forum comments. My (semi-qualified) guess is that Real Racing 3 will be a massive commercial success, in spite of everything even such a passionate community like TA can throw at Firemonkeys (perhaps even in spite of a frontal assault by ALL dedicated iOS online communities), and will prove to the developers that they made a commercially very sound decision. (And since I believe that there are some few aspects of the freemium paradigm that do gaming good, I would not want to dissuade all devs from exploring this bray new world.) What we might be able to do, however, is encourage small premium developers (and the occasional giant) to persists in releasing games free of freemium mechanics, for premium iOS prices. This will not change the market, but it might provide us with continued access to quality that is not compromised or obstructed by the race to the pricing bottom. So, if you have the means, perhaps you can try to transfer whatever rage (just or not) you are venting in this thread (and the dollars you were ready to give in exchange for that mythical premium RR3) into buying a title like: Ravenmark Starbase Orion The World Ends With You Final Fantasy Tactics Bastion Carcassonne Autumn Dynasty Nightfall, Ascension and Summoner Wars Penny Arcade Adventures: On The Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness 3 Kairosoft simulations Dangerous Galaxy on Fire 2 Air Mail King of Fighters-i 2012 Avadon and Avernum Bug Heroes (now that the main game is free, buy the expansions) Street Fighter IV Volt King of Dragon Pass Air Supremacy Real Racing 1 and Real Racing 2 All of these are games with relatively high price tags (at least at one time or the other), with no f2p or freemium mechanics that intrude upon gameplay, with generally high review scores, games which are generally considered to be of good (or excellent) quality, and which all provide something more than casual, quickly mastered and soon forgotten gameplay. We might not be able to stem the freemium tide, but in the walled land of high-quality premium iOS titles, we are legion. A legion that is willing to spend. So let's spend. But only when we press that download button... (Or when we purchase the occasional jam-packed expansion-style DLC or monthly subscription, but that kinda messed up the aforistic quality of above phrase.)
Now I'm tooting my own horn here a bit, but I own the vast majority of the games on that list, and the majority of those games were purchased at full price. Please do not forget Space Miner HD, Ticket to Ride, Dungeon Raid and a slew of other brilliant and addicting titles.
It was MUCH more. But having a strong opinion on EA's greed model has been and will be moved to another thread. Such an amazing game. I love everything about it.
I even bought Dead Space HD for $10 as soon as it came out... Then EA dropped the price to $7 within a week....
So, I somehow managed to miss this huge thread about complaints concerning RR3. Any posts worth reading, or is this yet another price complaint thread?
I read it all when it was in the regular RR3 thread before moderation. I found it pretty entertaining, but it depends on what you're into
A combination of frustration and bruises from the soul-killing facepalms that seemed to spontaneously generate as I read the original thread sent me over the edge. When I get unhinged, I spout words. A LOT of words. Not always a positive or constructive thing; I once self-destructed in a thread on another forum, and it was a thread that I had started. The self-destruction was so epic that I completely changed my views on a particular topic, and came face to face with a side of myself that I honestly didn't like. I get caught up in stuff a lot, and my judgement suffers as a result when I lose myself in a topic. Sorry I was so obnoxious with my wail of despair, I was just tired at not being heard. I really didn't mean to be so accusatory, I just lost control over my bleeding heart and it moved me to wail like the ending lament at an opera. I honestly don't have anything more to say about this subject than I've already stated. Other than another /incoming_rambling_muse, so buckle up for Wall-o-Text-o-TRON #3! Ask yourself this (and by "yourself", I mean "anyone who reads this post"): when has unbridled, full-on hatred ever simplified things or made your life better? When has it ever helped you feel good about what you say and do? When has it ever allowed you to do things you would feel comfortable about teaching to your children/siblings/people under your care? A simple answer betrays just how much of a minefield answering these questions in a way that portrays hatred in a positive manner can be, since hatred, as a recognized negative emotion, cannot be twisted into a positive emotion without forcing the hatred to become something it isn't. Since hatred is unquestionably negative, it stands to reason that any hatred one has will most likely create a negative effect on one's life. Whether or not one can withstand such negative effects without destroying their life is up to them, but they should never be ignorant of the effects that hatred has on them. On a separate note, I'd like to share my view on art in general, specifically the art of the video game. There will be a point to this, I promise, but it is lengthy I don't expect you folks to agree, just to take a look and judge for yourself it's validity or lack thereof. Art overall is an expression of the creative capacity of a human being. It is literally exercising our spiritual ability to create stuff, since the material world is a pale, lesser reflection of the spiritual world. If we create something out of material stuff, it helps our soul exercise its ability to create spiritual things. Thus, art is a powerful component of our daily lives because it exercises, in secret, a powerful spiritual ability. Also, it is a benefit that carries over into the spiritual worlds that open up to us when this mortal body has taken its last breath. However, satisfying the desire to exercise that spiritual capacity for creation is low on the hierarchy of needs required for physical life. More pressing needs like food, water, sleep, mate, job, friendship, etc... take priority over art, because if a basic need like that isn't satisfied it will seriously mess you up until it is satisfied. Thus, in order to practice art and develop your spiritual capacity for creation you must be able to calm down all those other impulses and resolve any other pressing matters. This is why it is so difficult to make art of any kind, on average. Some individuals have the talent to realize their artistic vision while keeping in balance all those other needs. Other folks don't have such innate gifts, and must either train themselves to do so whenever they get a chance, or band together and support each other to help them achieve that goal. You can see where this is leading. Yes, the IAPs are money-sucking. Yes, the timers get ridiculous the more you play. However, if the devs cannot support themselves, they will not be able to support each other on their individual quests to develop a very powerful spiritual capacity, one tied to creation itself, at least on a spiritual level. Consider the more important implication of this concept: the devs have, essentially, put the vast majority of their future spiritual development of their capacity to create on your impatience or lack thereof. This is why FTP was once scoffed at so much when it first began to enter the industry. It is an insanely risky endeavor that could be countered by simply slapping a price tag on the entrance fee. See what happened to the devs behind Gasketball or Punch Quest for how risky FTP can be. I remember how upset everyone was that Madgarden and Rocketcat's livelihoods were threatened when a lot of people, fans included, played their game Punch Quest and enjoyed it, but only a small percentage of folks spent money on IAPs, which meant that the devs did not get the resources they expected to be able to create more games. Things did eventually turn around, but it was genuinely painful to sit through for me, since I am a fan of Rocketcat. However, what about those fans of a certain dev's creations? If the only thing a fan could do to ensure that their favorite dev continues to create is to buy copies of their game, that could become very problematic in time, for both the dev and the fan. There are only so many copies of a game made/only a set number of years for it to be digitally available for purchase, only so much merchandise or other games/spinoffs/etc... available to be bought. Enter FTP's IAP system. NOW, a fan doesn't need multiple copies to support their favorite dev; they can just buy the IAPs again. And again. And again. In short, FTP has the potential of keeping developers creating new art for longer periods of time, if the devs can convince potential fans that their art is worth supporting, because it allows fans to indefinitely support the devs, up to a reasonable point, whatever that point may be. Sure, makes sense, but in my mind this goes deeper than just the physical support of paying money. It is also a form of spiritual support, where we help one soul exercise their potential to create by freeing them of their pressing physical needs, even if only for a little while. That is not something I take lightly. This is also why I just can't get behind any form of hate; devs are not just trying to survive, they're trying to develop a virtue of their soul, the part of their reality that is, for all intents and purposes, immortal IMHO. They're trying to become better people on an individual level. There is no way I can fault them for that, since by going FTP the devs essentially put the future of their spiritual development on the judgement of a stranger. If I was in their position, I'd want the support. It seems fair to me at least to try the game out and see if the art behind the payment model shows promise enough to support them on their spiritual endeavors. FTP allows me to give more support where appropriate. This is why I responded the way I did when that crap-ware Infinity Diablo came out. Look the forum thread up if you're curious. That is what drives me towards deciding which games to spend money on. Too often we think of ourselves as isolated from one another, and that what we do only affects us and no one else. Too often we forget just how social we are, and how connected we become to complete strangers as a result. Too often we forget what impact our actions could have, and we act on selfish impulse bolstered by ignorant decision-making. Am I making this out to be more than it is? Maybe. But I just can't ignore that spiritual trust the devs put in their customers every day. I have to at least try it out to see if it is worth supporting. If so, I support it, and help the dev's soul have a better chance at growing. Make of that whatever you will. Sincerely, Mr. Album
Reading this thread has been a horror show. This is *exactly* the worst kind of cancerous IAP that could destroy iOS gaming. Think I am exaggerating? The design and model of the IAP is bad enough, but for them not to include a FAIR upper limit 'unlock all' price (say $6.99 with a few track sets for .99 each?) is the true monster here. Ugh, I don't even care about this game anymore after reading about the business model. These timers sound ludicrous, and this sneaky little test release is all about them watching what the reaction will be. Well here it is guys, it stinks and you better make wholesale changes or you may find the peasants revolting en masse. I hope the various review sites have the balls to call them on this crap properly.
I can't agree with this post enough. Whatever money any of us had set aside for RR3 (I was expecting to pay $15), use that to reward an actual deserving developer instead. There are still many developers who are not surrendering to the freemium trend. Please reward their valor and dedication.
Agreed. And there's also Apple's role. Why would you still buy games if you get a great free game so often as Free App of the Week? Those games are usually so good they can keep someone occupied for weeks. And then there is the role of TouchArcade itself. It just seems a little strange to berate "us" for waiting on price drops, but then encourage that by posting about sales and freebies on the front page (even sending out push notifications for hot freebies), and even have your own "TA Free Play". Also, I think there is a big false dichotomy between "paid premium app that doesn't bring in enough money for big companies" and "therefore they needed to go freemium with long cooldown timers and super expensive IAP". Like lots of people said already: they could have come up with a different freemium model without the timers. Of course some people still would have hated it (just like some people would have hated it if it were premium but cost $10), but I'm sure the response would have been very different.
Hello boyz, after a good night sleep i'm back But, but, where are all the posts? Looks like half of them are "mysterious" removed!
