Quality vs. Quantity

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by CharredDirt, Aug 9, 2012.

  1. #21 Connector, Aug 11, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2012
    I disagree, I would much rather have a new ipad over an xbox 360. I don't really want to start a console vs new ipad fan club war, but I for one wouldn't even think twice about this decision for many different reasons.

    True, maybe 30 min is comfortable holding an ipad in mid air, but most people have stands for the ipads, or you can rest it on my lap/chest, or put it on your lap.

    Most of the rest of what you say I can agree with, but the other another major disagreement is that if you are saying that most people bought Rubicon's game mostly for the graphics, I have to disagree again. I think it's the gameplay they like, with added consideration for depth and length.

    But I do agree with you about an bluetooth joystick, that would be a real game changer.
     
  2. Balloon Loons

    Balloon Loons Well-Known Member

    Jun 20, 2012
    209
    0
    0
    I think you misunderstood my Xbox example a little. I just used Xbox as an example of a console but I was referring to all consoles. Gamers would never choose to play a game on an iPad over a console game. Sure you may choose an iPad over an Xbox but that because of other functions as well like watching videos for example.

    When I say 30 minutes I'm including time spent switching how you hold the iPad. Overall it becomes uncomfortable. Your hand hurt or your neck cramps and you just can't sit there anymore playing it. Personally I would rather play a game on my iPhone just because it's more comfortable. But even then it's only to kill some time. If I want to get lost in a game I pick up my console.

    Also I didnt say the only reason rubicons game sold was graphics. What I said was graphics initially drove the sale. Think of spiderman. It looked pretty so millions downloaded it even though the game was shit. So my point is only that 3d graphics sell no matter what the game is. So in reality the game itself could have no depth because the sale was already made. See apps are impulse buys because of the low price point. If a user sees a pretty presentation they are curious and spend $2. Take that same game and make it 49$ for a console and it has a tougher time selling. Then it becomes more about how good the game actually is. This is in reference to any iOS game not specifically rubicons which happens to be a great game itself.

    The question was quality over quantity and my point was that for ios games you don't need to concen yourself too much with depth. Again I refer back to tiny wings as the perfect example of this. Even angry birds. Simplicity sold the game not amount of content or depth. Just my two cents and also an idea that is reflected by many gamers (I have alot of teenage friends lol).
     
  3. #23 Connector, Aug 11, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2012
    I will admit that comparable console vs ipad games, the console versions are much better, especially FPS and 3d games. But there are a lot of games that play better on the ipad including puzzle games and niche games. Even for me, I like playing shmups on my ipad better with touch control than with an analog joystick.

    Anyway, I think it is probably more fair if one compares the ipad with the vita since it is a portable system, and consideration has to be made on the price of games because you can get a lot of good ipad games for $50.

    If you have an ipad, I would recommend a tripod like the ihome one, I use it, and I love it. But you are right, the new ipad is a little on the heavy side.

    I think maybe you should have used a game like Dead Trigger more as an example over Rubicon's game, but you have a valid point, graphics do sell.

    You say that games like tiny birds and angry birds sell well, so developers might want to go for simple games, but I hope not. I for one am kind of bored of all these endless runners and simple simple puzzle games. I like puzzle games like follow the rabbit or cut the rope over simple mindless games. Or it would be nice to have more console like games. I am currently having a lot of fun with Virtua Tennis on my new ipad. It's a great game.

    Anyway, I'm not going to post anymore about consoles vs ipad, because it's kind of pointless. But I do hope that developers go the route of quality vs quantity, depth over mindless, and that ios never goes the route of junky mindless iap freemiums, cause that kind of seems the trend at this moment.
     
  4. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2011
    1,535
    1
    0
    Lead Programmer, Chief Bottlewasher
    Isle of Wight, UK
    Raises hand.

    Consoles are dead to me, the games are too expensive, and largely too derivative.
     
  5. Balloon Loons

    Balloon Loons Well-Known Member

    Jun 20, 2012
    209
    0
    0
    Yup but remember iOS is limited. You almost have to stick with a one touch user interface or you start to alienate everyone. Imagine a game with 10 buttons on ios or any portable touch screen device? No way! Limited control means limited gameplay. Also limited file size means limited depth and length. 50mb is nothing these days! Unfortunately one of those can never change so the same types of games will continue being made. Puzzle games work great on touch screen but how many puzzle games can you really play until you get sick of them all. And puzzle games are a dime a dozen now. Plus it comes down to audience. Let's face it the majority of ios gamers are casual. When you develop I assume you want to target the largest audience possible. If an app isn't simple you alienate the majority of users setting up to fail. Well unless of course you have a known name already or have thousands to spend on marketing. But this relates the average indie developer. Most of us do this out of love on the side of a day job. Most can't afford to spend on marketing firms. Another thing that could change to help improve game quality is the way the app store is set up. The current method only supports the big names and spenders leaving little guys in the dust. Do you think tiny wings would be a hit if it was released today? Somehow I doubt it.
     
  6. Balloon Loons

    Balloon Loons Well-Known Member

    Jun 20, 2012
    209
    0
    0
    As developers we are biased here. We almost have to play iOS games to see the competition. And we don't really have the time to get lost in a game these days. I once played my Xbox and play station like 5 hours a day. I would love to have that kind of free time these days lol. So you and I have a unique bond to our iOS devices that gamers do not. Unless you're referring to casual gamers. Casual gamers choose ios over consoles because of simplicity and games like words with friends :). But that goes back to my point that that is the target audience for ios games.
     
  7. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2011
    1,535
    1
    0
    Lead Programmer, Chief Bottlewasher
    Isle of Wight, UK
    No bias here. I just don't like games consoles.

    Almost all games available on them are better playing with either a mouse, a touch screen or an actual proper joystick. I also want to play whilst the wife is watching big brother or whatever.
     
  8. Ndemic Creations

    Ndemic Creations Well-Known Member

    I agree with Rubicon, I absolutely believe that iOS gamers want more complex and involving games as well as the simple ones

    Plague Inc. is proof of this - it is a challenging game which people invest significant (hours) of time into. I expected it to be a niche game but instead it became mainstream because people wanted something different to the normal, simple game which involves throwing objects into other objects.
     
  9. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2011
    1,535
    1
    0
    Lead Programmer, Chief Bottlewasher
    Isle of Wight, UK
  10. Balloon Loons

    Balloon Loons Well-Known Member

    Jun 20, 2012
    209
    0
    0
  11. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2011
    1,535
    1
    0
    Lead Programmer, Chief Bottlewasher
    Isle of Wight, UK
  12. Balloon Loons

    Balloon Loons Well-Known Member

    Jun 20, 2012
    209
    0
    0
  13. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2011
    1,535
    1
    0
    Lead Programmer, Chief Bottlewasher
    Isle of Wight, UK
    Lol, I thought you'd say that. :)

    The key thing here is that we are actually going to make a profit at some point. Anrgy rope bird ninja probably would not, which is why I'm also gonna price it at $-4.99 :D
     
  14. Well, I agree with you that Tiny Wings and Angry Birds are way overated, but I think it varies a little if you are talking about the iphone or ipad. I think on the iphone, it is easier to play casual games due to the lack of real estate, but on the ipad, I think gamers want games with more depth that are console like.

    I have over 700 games on my 64 gb ipad, and never get bored, actually most games, I never get to play. But in the last month, the games I have played the most are:

    Virtua Tennis, NHL 2k11, Asphalt 7, Mutantstorm, Dodonpachi resurrection hd, Bug princess 2, Major Mayhem, Dariusburst, and Follow the Rabbit.

    Most of these games I would say are console quality games, except of course Follow the Rabbit, which is a casual game. So I for one would be more in favor of advanced quality games on my ipad.

    Yes, in some ways ios is limited as you say especially in 3d power and joystick controls, but out of all my physical entertainment possesions, the most valuable thing I own is my ipad... I used to own an xbox with tons of games, but after awhile it just sat in a corner attracting dust, and became a very expensive paper weight.
     
  15. Zenout

    Zenout Well-Known Member

    Cut The Angry Ninja's Rope would probably be quite a good game, I would download it a few times at that price :D
     
  16. I think you missed Zombie in your title. Trust me, without it, you will not make a profit. :)

    Read your blog, and I personally think the reason for the dropoff is that your game is for a niche market of turn based strategy players. But glad to hear that you are projecting a profit in the near term. Did your first game experience the same game selling trends? Was there a noticeable dropoff like the second game? Or were the sales patterns different?
     
  17. PodCubed

    PodCubed Active Member

    Apr 2, 2012
    26
    0
    0
    Australia
  18. NickFalk

    NickFalk Well-Known Member

    I think the figures pretty much define this as a fallacy.

    Nothing personal here Balloon Loons, I just really disagree with you. ;)
    What the heck is a "real gamer"? If you enjoy playing games and play games you are "gamer". I've probably put down more hours playing Plants vs. Zombies and Civilization on my iPad than any of my consoles the last year. Yes, the console will always beat the iPad for certain kind of games but as Nintendo proved with both the DS and the Wii there are new gaming experiences to be found with new interfaces. If you try to mimic games that need 78 buttons and whatnot you are heading for trouble.
    As much as I love gaming I think "time killing" is what almost all gaming is about. It is an entertainment medium. You don't generally play games to be productive or solve word problems...
     
  19. That sure is a lot of buttons! I think 78 buttons would cover the whole ipad screen! ;)
     
  20. Rubicon

    Rubicon Well-Known Member

    Feb 22, 2011
    1,535
    1
    0
    Lead Programmer, Chief Bottlewasher
    Isle of Wight, UK
    Definite yes.

    We made a much stronger effort at release day marketing and its a much better game, so the numbers are blessedly a bit bigger. However if you take the labels off, the sales graphs look identical.

    And you're right. Definitely missing ": Zombie wings" as a subtitle. :)
     

Share This Page