Hello and Greetings, My name is Richard Yale and I own a small indie game company (legal corporation in California) called Vortex Games, Inc. We are currently working on a few games, some for iPhone and a few for Facebook. Our first iPhone game will be out the beginning of the year and not too long after will be our first Facebook game. I'm going to be honest here so you all know where I am coming from and what I expect. I have hired multiple programmers and have dealt with a lot of BAD programmers. What makes a programmer bad? -A programmer that does not communicate daily -A programmer that takes time off of a project (even if for a few days) without informing the team -A programmer that thinks he knows it all and won't take criticism or listen to others' ideas -A programmer that doesn't understand that this is a job and I am the boss This has stalled our first iPhone game from releasing in Nov 2010 until Jan 2011 and it frustrates me. I have a great programmer now and I am sure he'll continue to program for us after the game is launched. So what am I looking for? I'm looking for interested iPhone game programmers who have the same desires and passions that we do: To create the next hit game. Does this mean you'll be working for free? Not at all. Everyone who works for us currently is paid, some have volunteered to take less money for a percentage of the games they are working on, this was their choice. Every person who works for our company loves what they do and I let them use their own creativity to produce the best quality of work. Restricting ideas and creativity only makes people bored with the work they are doing. Most of the people who work for us have full-time jobs and enjoying working on our games in their free time. This lets them express themselves outside of their mundane work. But that doesn't mean those are the only people I hire. Now to the nitty gritty. If you are expecting to get paid full market salary then you might as well stop reading. I pay people to the best of my abilities, but it won't be near market salary. I also reward good work with more money throughout development. You need to remember that we are an indie company, we aren't fully backed by multi-million dollar corporations and don't ever plan on being, we'll make our own game money. The question is will you be there for when we do? Who should send me an email: -If you have programmed iPhone games before (2D or 3D) -If you have a passion for programming games -If you don't expect market salary -If you can communicate frequently -If you understand that this is a JOB and not a paid holiday where you can slack off -If you are a group of programmers (Not an outsourcing company) looking to join with a company (we currently have a group working with us on a Facebook game so this is nothing new) Who should not send me an email: -Outsourcing companies (Sorry, I just don't do that) -Programmers from the UK (Sorry, the US dollar isn't what it used to be and I'd have to pay you double any other programmer to even make it worth your efforts, unless you want to collaborate with us) -Programmers from India/Iraq/Pakistan/Indonesia (Sorry, I've had bad experiences with people from these countries and the language barrier is usually a problem) With all that said, we are a really great company with awesome people. The people you see on our site are just a few of the 20 something people that are working with Vortex Games, Inc. We are all driven and anxious to get our names out in the gaming world and to produce games that people speak about for the ages. I have tons, literally, of ideas for iPhone games and lots of artists interested in working with us and waiting for some great programmers. So if you are interested please send me an email and we'll talk. Please include a demo if you have one, or something that will prove that you know what you are doing. We are getting more information about our games up soon but in the mean-time check out our Facebook and forums for more information on them. Thank you for your time and consideration, Richard Yale CEO / President Vortex Games, Inc. [email protected] http://www.vortexgamesinc.com
Then you should stop looking for serious programmer then You always get what you paid for, sad but true. JC
Why is that? As I said, the people who work for me are paid, just not market salary. Also, most of the people who work for me have full-time jobs doing something other than programming games and want to work on games in their spare time for spare money.
I don't want you guys to get the wrong idea. I do PAY my people, I leave it up to them if they want to take less pay for a percentage of the profit. I pay one of my programmers $20/hr, that's pretty reasonable right?
What are you not sure about? In any job you take, whether it is contract or full-time/part-time you are working for someone and that person is the boss. And I'm not a mean boss, I probably let people get away with more than they should honestly. I'm just tired of the jerks who like to argue and complain.
Yeah I got the same vibe. Instead of saying working for me, you can say working with us. Even if they mean exactly the same in practice, they sound completely different and it'll make your pitch more attractive. Also there's a huge disconnect in the salary paragraph. Don't expect to get paid full market salary, because I pay people fairly and what they're worth, therefore you're not worth what the market pays for someone with your skills. Some pretty interesting logic going on there.
That depends entirely on the person, their experience, and their needs. Never the less that tends to be about half to one fifth, of what a experienced developer can typically earn.
About half of what they typically earn I can agree with, but it's probably about $10-15 less than what a freelance programmers earn if they want to be competitive in the market. Anyone making more than that is probably working for the big gaming companies. Also, I did say no one from the UK because it's definitely a lot less than what they earn because the US Dollar just can't stand up to the pound or the euro and while I have had a few UK people work for me, they were very generous in dropping their prices and I appreciated them for it. In regards to CrazyGambit, I didn't want to waste anyone's time. I posted what I pay one of my programmers so that people can judge for themselves if they think it is a fair price. This way people expecting $40/hr won't waste their time messaging me in hopes of work. I'm sorry if I come off as a hard a** but I'm really not, I just don't want to bring people in who are only looking to make a quick buck and don't really have a passion for games. I had a guy agree to a certain price and then all he did was complain about it, act like he was better than everyone on the team, insult and talk down to everyone, and overall was just a jerk. These are the kind of people I'm hoping to avoid by being a little more stern/brutally honest. Also, I see your point about the me vs. us. I'll change it. Thanks for the advice!
$20 an hour? Damn I work my ass off and only earn $13....i may need to fast track my programming learning.
well no one forces you to work for vortex.. and if he pays you.. he IS the boss.. and you are the contractor.. if he pays you he is the one who sets the rules.. if you don't like them leave.. or don't sign up.. people don't get paid todo what they want.. they get paid todo what they are supposed todo.. and if he pays someone 20$/h and the programmer is ok with that then its ok.. no one force anyone todo anything.. working on iOS games is a luxury.. there are tons of database programming jobs boring as hell, but avaiable.. but people want to work in game developmenent.. but one should realise.. one very important thing. you don't get rich in game dev. and you are paid way under average what a programmer gets if he works for siemens, alcatel or any other bigger company on some boring horse shit.. you decide. the boss is the boss and if you think its underpaid, do something else somewhere.. and 20$ can be alot in one country and nothing in another.. my personal hourly rate is 3-4 times that.. but i also live in country where 20$ is not much worth since the euro is alot stronger.. and cost of living is alot higher.. some people on the world earn in a month what i earn in a day and they live better from that money than i do.. if that money is not good to you.. don't moan , find something else..
Thank you Mr.Ugly. I'm glad you understand what I was saying. It wasn't that I was being a harda$$ or anything, I was just stating a fact that a lot of lower paid freelance employees seem to overlook. Heck, a lot of higher paid freelance employees also. Just because you are a contractor doesn't mean you don't have a boss. I have gotten a few interested parties from this post and one of them will be starting to work with us in a week on a new game. We came to an agreement on his pay based on his skill and he is happy with the amount. When we make some money on the game I will toss him some extra money. The indie game industry is a lot different than the regular game industry. A company could get by breaking even on all of their released games and be happy, other people struggle in the market even though their game is amazing, and then there are the few that make it huge with a hit. You never know what is going to happen in this industry so you take your chances. What you do know is the people you work with, and I can tell you everyone we have worked with and still working with are happy and love the games they are working on because we don't just copy other games, we innovate and I let everyone give their input into what they would like to see in a game. If that is something you are looking for them be sure to send me an email because that's the kind of people who we are looking for.
I'm just trying to help the guy out you complain about only getting bad programmers. Well don't expect to get John Carmack with an offer like that.
I guess I didn't explain well enough. I don't mean bad programmers as in people who don't know what they are doing or are at a lower skill level. I'm willing to work with people wanting to get into game programming who know nothing about programming for any platform. In fact I'm bringing on a guy who knows how to program software, but wants to learn how to program games. I'm complaining about the people who accept the lower rate then complain about it like I forced them to accept it, bring down the moral of the team, insult people's intelligence frequently, take leaves of absence for a week+ without notifying anyone, and pretty much act like they don't want to work for an indie company. And believe me, there are a lot of these people out there! They waste everyone's time and rarely get anything done. Right now we have a great team. Everyone works well together, the programmers tell the artists what they need, the artists have the freedom they need to create their best works, and the content designers love to create levels for our games and come up with new game ideas that we bounce off each other nearly every day. A new composer just recently joined up with us also and is creating music for our upcoming iPhone game along side our current composer. I'm not begging for people to join my team for less money. I am putting out there that we are looking for people with a passion for creating games who are willing to accept the lower rate of pay while the funding is still low.
