Looking for examples that show "brokenness" of the App Store

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by stromstock, Sep 12, 2014.

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  1. stromstock

    stromstock Active Member

    Feb 27, 2012
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    Freelance writer for tech magazines. Master of pup
    Kiel, Germany
    Hi,

    I am working on an article on the app store. Mainly the focus will be where it fails to deliver for users or developers.

    Examples are

    - the search funktion that can't be used with operators :mad:
    - the stucture that is heavily based on Top Charts :mad:
    - the plethora of garbage-apps that prey on confused users :mad:

    I am looking for input of users and devs who'd like to add to that list.

    Examples of copycat apps that rip-off the work of others or apps that seemingy force users to enter a positive rating before offering access to features would be very welcome.

    Devs who would like to share their experiences when dealing with apple on the above matters or who have been approched by marketeers offering dubious promotion opportunities are invited to drop me a PM. :)

    Cheers!

    stromstock
     
  2. davilca

    davilca Active Member

    Aug 17, 2014
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    Then take a look a this thread: http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=237960

    You'll find example images of very long app names that copy the names of famous apps. In fact, you can look it yourself simply by searching "Monument Valley" or "Flappy" on iTunes from your Mac.

    Basically, Apple is not applying some of their review rules, for example, regarding clone apps. The App Store would need some "clone app" reporting tool (only available for devs). If they're basically the same concept, it would be easy to point out the clone simply by looking at the date the Apps were submitted. A clone should be removed from the App Store until there are significant changes to its gameplay in order to differentiate if from the original game, not only based on graphics change. In my opinion, the app reskinnig bussiness is harming the App Store a lot.
     
  3. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    The 3 things you you listed aren't examples of broken. One is a choice by Apple the other two are examples of a free market.

    "force users to enter a positive rating before offering access to features" - that is the only thing you list, but Apple will remove apps doing this when they find them.

    The main thing for me is abuse of keywords especially in game names.
     
  4. stromstock

    stromstock Active Member

    Feb 27, 2012
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    Freelance writer for tech magazines. Master of pup
    Kiel, Germany
    @davlika
    Thanks for the input. Alas I think a prompt removal would be problematic, since a dev has to prove it was indeen his appp that was cloned.

    @Destined
    I personally think that my examples illustrate that the app store could be improved upon, fixed for that matter. Do you have any idea if Apple is actively searching for apps that harrass users, as with the forced ratings? Also nice point with the keyword spam.
     
  5. psj3809

    psj3809 Moderator

    Jan 13, 2011
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    Just look in the promo code section !

    So many threads with 'download our app and leave a 'fair review' and then the winner chosen will get $1' type rubbish. You then get people leaving 5 star reviews for mexican chilli rainbow boat simulator just to win the prize. I dont remember reading many 'this apps rubbish' reviews who won prizes !

    Just trying to get round the rules to get lots of 5 star ratings. These (mostly) crap apps then get featured more or seem more 'popular' due to all the fake reviews.

    They're not competitions, they're more like buying peoples (or sheep !) fake reviews. Thats one huge reason why reviews on the app store are a joke
     
  6. coolpepper43

    coolpepper43 👮 Spam Police 🚓

    Aug 31, 2012
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    #6 coolpepper43, Sep 12, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2014
    But that's my favorite type of simulator! ;)
    How about fake screen shots?
    Also, I have seen some MAJOR app devs have a limited "sale" that has lasted over 3 years
     
  7. davilca

    davilca Active Member

    Aug 17, 2014
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    #7 davilca, Sep 12, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2014
    Oh, I forgot to mention the Top Charts. Top charts are OK, but we need much more of them, not only 3. This could be solved with a much more complex category or tags system, at least for video games. I don't want a 2D platformer pixel art game competing against a 3D photorealistic FPS from a big company in the same chart. It makes no sense.

    In addition to keywords (freely chosen by the dev), Apple should use fixed tags that unequivocally identify any app (like 3D, 2D, Pixel Art, Platformer, FPS, etc.). And they should review this tags thoroughly during the review process (as well as keywords). Tags could replace categories, and could be used to filter searches and get much more interesting top charts.
     
  8. stromstock

    stromstock Active Member

    Feb 27, 2012
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    Freelance writer for tech magazines. Master of pup
    Kiel, Germany
    @coolpepper43

    How about fake screenshots? I remember an app that had some Minecraft images in it's description and finally was just a slideshow of Minecraft images of some sort. Any ideas if Apple checks, if screenshots actually come from an app?

    @davilca

    Great idea, altough it might be problematic if a game mixes styles. Still sub-categorys in the gaming section would be a big help.
     
  9. PikPok

    PikPok Well-Known Member

    Nov 26, 2009
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    That's a terrible idea.

    There is a reason why "look and feel" is not copyrightable, and cloning apps is not illegal. If it was that would massively stifle innovation.

    It may suck that there are predatory, cash in clones, but the alternative would be developers monopolizing mechanics and genres.

    What would be useful and helpful to "legitimate" developers with respect to clones that cross the line of legality is Apple being more proactive about copyright and trademark infringement.
     
  10. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    I like the idea that part of the review process they had their own tags as well. Which have some sort of weighting.

    You are allowed to have screenshots not in the app I think. Previously it had to actually come from the app, now you seem to be able to edit them however you like.

    I doubt they actively check past the review. But I don't know.

    You are saying they should be fixed from an indie developer point of view. I am sure they are a big problem there, but from a consumer point of view you are putting the most popular apps in front of them. Seems like a smart move from apple.
     
  11. stromstock

    stromstock Active Member

    Feb 27, 2012
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    Freelance writer for tech magazines. Master of pup
    Kiel, Germany
    @pikpok

    I agree. It is very hard to draw a line between inspired and downright copied apps. I guess cases in which "devs" copy the ipa, rename it and resubmit it should be easy to judge. That ever happened to one of your apps?

    @Destined

    I guess they should be fixed also from a user point of view as well. How to find "Badland" if you do't know the name and it has dropped out of the lists – which would at least give you the chance to recognize the icon. Narrowing down searches and a searchable app store description would be an improvement for devs as well as customers.

    Also, being provided only with the most popular – not necessarily the best – gets stale pretty fast IMHO. But Apple seems to try at least highlighting certain sub-genres.
     
  12. Nobunaga

    Nobunaga Well-Known Member

    Jun 2, 2012
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    The AppStore is far from broken.
    It could easily be improved. Obviously the key word problem is a big issue that needs to be dealt with. "Flappy monument lumberjack valley free ninja zombie birds" should never pass the review process. It's actually ridiculous that these kinds of garbage make it to the AppStore and actually gain in visibility.

    In all honesty, my major issue with the AppStore is the sheer amount of shovel ware flooding it every day. Some with fake screenshots and misleading descriptions, false reviews or whatever other shady practices.

    I had a look at new games last week. In a 24 hour span 400 new apps in the category games had released.

    Maybe, being very generous, 10 of these were actual submissions that a person could on any level take seriously. Apple needs a QC /QA department beyond the current review/approval process and guide lines for new apps. PSN, Xboxlive and Steam have had varying versions of these and from a consumers point of view, they are very helpful. From an industry point of view, I can see it having issues occasionally. However, for developers/publishers in can only see it being a positive, as an overall.
     
  13. PikPok

    PikPok Well-Known Member

    Nov 26, 2009
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    We've had instances of trademark infringements on our registered marks on the App Store.

    Outside of the App Store we've had people using assets ripped from our games illegally, and people stealing, modifying and republishing our APKs on Android portals. Neither of those things have happened on the App Store to our knowledge.
     
  14. OnlyJoe

    OnlyJoe Well-Known Member

    Sep 29, 2013
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    Broken in this case seems quite subjective. When you do write this article make sure you don't come across on the moaning side. A lot of people go down the track of making a really bad game, then trying to blame how broken the app store is as to why their game didn't succeed.
    In essence the app store is a platform to allow for the distribution of apps to iOS devices. It succeeds at this, so it isn't really broken, as its purpose is achieved.
    The added bonuses of featured items, top charts (of which there is one for each category already), related items, etc, can be improved, but I wouldn't say they are broken. From a users point of view they are finding fun things to play or useful tools to use the way it is currently working.

    I do think that apple can improve their search to show users more of what they are actually trying to find, much like how google has improved search over the years. But this should be from technologies not from their review process. I already feel that Apple take too much control with their review process, so for them to start filtering out clones would be a very bad idea that takes even more freedom away from the app store.

    I think a lot of it comes down to how developers view Apple. Lots of people seem to think of them as like a publisher who is going to bend over backwards to try and promote our content, regardless of its quality. But they are merely running an open market place, so it is totally up to us to take the responsibility to promote our games. I think people need to realise that just putting your game on the app store is basically the same as just starting a blog on the internet. People don't expect that just starting a blog is going to make you an instant millionaire, so why do they think like this with apps?
     
  15. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    It is like releasing a product in the supermarket and expecting the big chain to put your product in the display cabinet at the front where everyone is more likely to purchase.

    The reality like you said marketing if up to the company and anything you get from Apple is a bonus. Also the majority of apps that fail are because they really aren't that good to start with.
     
  16. stromstock

    stromstock Active Member

    Feb 27, 2012
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    Freelance writer for tech magazines. Master of pup
    Kiel, Germany
    @Nobunaga
    Shovel ware is a good point. Since Apple runs the show they would be free to kick out apps at will. In 2010 the guidelines said: "We have lots of serious developers who don’t want their quality Apps to be surrounded by amateur hour." But I agree, lots of shovel ware is clogging up the shelves. Lots of deserted apps as well, just looking at apps that still use Open Feint.

    @PikPok
    Would you like to elaborate on the trademark infringements?

    @Only Joe
    Well there is a lot to bemoan, is there? A lot that could be improved upon. As you say: The search. Since they bought Chomp there is still hope. But I agree that there is a lot of uncalled moaning from devs that want a sub-par product featured.

    @Destined
    Since a lot of devs underestimate the importanace of marketing and expect their app to take off from the start there are some shabby services around. Sites that want money for a review, or companies that promise positive reviews. Any experience with that?
     
  17. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    Of course there are. It is much worse in the google play store. I often see apps with magnitudes more 5 star ratings than downloads because you don't even need to download to rate.

    All of the rate to win a prize comps here on touch arcade are pretty boarderline buying ratings.

    If you want to find sites that want money for a review, just write to a bunch of them asking them to review your app and loads will write back with an offer of an "expedited" review for a cost. Generally the lower traffic sites seem to do this. There was someone here in the services forum offering to make videos for lets play at a cost.
     
  18. PikPok

    PikPok Well-Known Member

    Nov 26, 2009
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    Other apps have launched on the App Store (and other mobile portals) which have infringed on trademarks we own, to which we have responded with takedown notices and requests to change app names.

    This is not an issue specific to the App Store, but a possibility in any distribution channel.

    In fact, the App Store actually makes it very convenient for us to both contact the developer in question as well as notify Apple of the issue. Much better than most other portals where the process is much more convoluted.
     
  19. davilca

    davilca Active Member

    Aug 17, 2014
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    People, seriously, Apple need a much better review and QA team, or some common sense. This is a clone case example from one of our games I posted time ago via Twitter:

    [​IMG]

    I don't care if that game is "trying" to clone our game mechanics. I don't care if they have stolen our road. But it's a shame that Apple allow this bullcrap on their store. A game that's practically unplayable. Allowing this kind of shitty apps that barely work is like insulting costumers in their faces.

    As I said before, Apple want $99 from each developer. It's just that. It's not about free market, it's about Apple don't applying their review rules. I love the free market, but I also want a demanding QA review process that motivate developers to do their best, not to make crap at speed of light.
     
  20. Destined

    Destined Well-Known Member

    Aug 11, 2013
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    The only thing the QA team missed was your road which is so generic they couldn't of possibly known. No real problems there...
     

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