List of iOS3-compatible apps that crash on iOS3 !

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by PèreGoriot, Sep 9, 2012.

  1. PèreGoriot

    PèreGoriot Well-Known Member

    Sep 9, 2012
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    #1 PèreGoriot, Sep 9, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2012
    Hello,
    Many so-called-iOS3-compatible apps on the AppStore crash on iOS3 !
    Their executable is invalid: it's iOS4+ hard-linked. So it can't run on iOS3: it does not even load !
    Programmers know that their apps fail on iOS3, but continue to sell them as "iOS3 compatible".
    Apple doesn't even check iOS3-compatibility claim. And Apple doesn't even react to crash reports.

    If you are a good programmer, please contact these bad programmers and explain them how to fix that !
    If you have a good contact with Apple, ask them to remove these apps until fixed.

    Thanks.


    Here's a WIP of the list:


    (More to be added here later)
     
  2. Royce

    Royce Well-Known Member

    Mar 22, 2011
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    Why do you still have iOS3? :confused:
     
  3. PèreGoriot

    PèreGoriot Well-Known Member

    Sep 9, 2012
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    - iPhone1 users can only have iOS3.
    - A lot of iPhone3G users prefer iOS3, faster than iOS4.
    - If an app is sold as iOS3-compatible, it MUST be iOS3-compatible. (ie: software sold as XP compatible should work on your XP computer, etc).
    - People paid for iOS3-compatible apps. Apps don't work: that sucks. Or apps worked for monthes, but latest update now fails: that sucks.
     
  4. S.I.D. CrAzY

    S.I.D. CrAzY Well-Known Member

    May 16, 2009
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    OG iPhone.

    Didn't know they were still around.
     
  5. CygnetSeven

    CygnetSeven Moderator
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    Feb 6, 2010
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    Then only buy apps that were released pre iOS 4. I'm sure developers probably don't have iPhone 1's to test their apps on or owners of iPhone 1's willing to beta test them for them.
     
  6. MarkFromBitmenStudios

    MarkFromBitmenStudios Well-Known Member

    Apr 4, 2011
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    Austria, Europe
    #6 MarkFromBitmenStudios, Sep 10, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2012
    I made Air Force vs Luftwaffe 3.1 compatible and I can tell, it is a pain. I mean, the whole reason to do so is not to support the old iOS only but the old devices ontop of it.

    Not only is the hardware hard to come by (I personally have to borrow an old iPod touch 1st gen from my bro for testing), it also costs extra effort to support the low specs. Already game startup is a challenge, I had to spend considerable extra effort into async preloading because texture loading on 1st gen devices is so slooooow (even when precompressed and in PVR format) and you still want to provide a smooth experience without any major waiting time.

    Also, the gap is widening, it gets harder and harder exploiting the power of newer devices while still targeting the old models.

    For my current game, I've finally abandoned older generations, esp. since it is a multiplayer game and the low-end devices would only end up dragging down the newer ones in a multiplayer game.

    I agree though that if you do list 3.1 as a valid target as a dev, you should have tested on an actual device running that iOS version and not just set it in Xcode and x your fingers. Otherwise, it is so easy to statically link newer frameworks or call unsported functions on existing frameworks that will result in a crash.
     
  7. TheBunny

    TheBunny Well-Known Member

    Nov 8, 2008
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    MMO Mac Lead ZeniMax Online
    Baltimore
    No one should be supporting IOS3 at this point.
    IOS3 has almost no market share. Look it up. ( I can't find good link right now )

    Im sorry that you have bought apps and then the updates BREAK ios3 compatibility. That sounds more like the real issue here?
    There really should have been a system in place to prevent this kind of thing.

    The other issue is if the device can run ios4 theres no sane reason for a developer not to require it.
     
  8. PèreGoriot

    PèreGoriot Well-Known Member

    Sep 9, 2012
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    I'm sure Apple can auto-verify executables. Look the binary executable, check the headers, etc. Are there hard-linked iOS4 APIs functions in the code ? Yes ? So app is not iOS3 compatible and should be rejected. This should catch a lot of so-called-iOS3-compatible apps.

    Testing iOS3 apps should be easy: there are less and less iOS3-compatible apps, so one guy with one iPhone1/iOS313 can daily test many of these so-called-iOS3-compatible apps. Easy. (I can do it, Apple ! Send me paid-apps for free and I'll test them for you !).

    At least, when a buyer reports an invalid app to Apple, Apple should verify that !! One received report: test the app and check ! The app is not iOS3-compatible ? Remove it from the Store, contact the programmers, wait until fixed. Easy.

    Apple should send a letter to programmers, explaining how to produce good executables. They know how to use AppleSDK ? Sure.

    Or perhaps Apple should stop all iOS3 apps at once: remove them all tomorrow, and force all programmers to send an updated "iOS4+ only" version. So Store will be 100% iOS3-bugs-free. No more problems. I'll be happy.
     
  9. mr.Ugly

    mr.Ugly Well-Known Member

    Dec 1, 2009
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    Berlin, Germany
    Its an oversight on both sides, devs as well as apple.. but then one should be happy that there are apps at all who work on 6 year old phones

    we just had recently a discussion if we should support ios 3 for an non gaming app and are still on the fence to try to optimize for a tiny market share who is most likely not very active either on the appstore

    (if you buy alot of apps you would afford a new iphone every couple years)

    but of course if it says compatible, it should be..
     
  10. ChaoticBox

    ChaoticBox Well-Known Member

    Oct 8, 2008
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    You have crash logs and contact info, why not just contact these devs yourself? You might be surprised how many "bad programmers" are willing to fix bugs once they know about them ;)

    That said, all my iPhone/iPod games run on iOS 3. GUARANTEED! :D
     
  11. PèreGoriot

    PèreGoriot Well-Known Member

    Sep 9, 2012
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    I contacted ALL of them. MANY times. With exact crash report. Other iPhone1 users also contacted them. Perhaps we are not enough angry people. Perhaps a crash report is not enough: they also want us to fix the code for them, for free. Perhaps they are waiting for an angry Apple shouting at them and banning them.

    They just don't care. No answer at all. Or sh*t answers like: "buy an iPhone69 and shut up", or "f*ck you, poor hobo", or "we won't fix ! never !", or "we got the money, we keep it, now go to hell", or "we know it crashes for monthes, but we're lazy".

    Even big huge companies (with lot of programmers and lot of money) don't care. Ie: Plants Vs Zombies latest versions have graphical bugs and other problems, and the great PopCap doesn't want to fix ! Bejeweled Blitz is also a non-working-iOS3 app, but they refuse to fix it. GameLoft refuses to fix IronMan2, UbiSoft detroyed PrinceOfPersiaRetro, the two AmateurSurgeon crashes but AdultSwim ignores that, Gamevil has five or six non-working iOS3 apps and we're still waiting, Triniti has even more bad apples in its basket, etc, etc...

    No press articles. No blog articles. No forum articles. No scandal.
    Perhaps we'll go to FTC and try a class action ??
     
  12. schplurg

    schplurg Well-Known Member

    #12 schplurg, Sep 11, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2012
    Yeah, maybe you can find a $.99 attorney. Just watch out for those IAPs.

    I've reported bugs to many devs throughout the years and have never had an angry response. I've made friends with a few this way actually. If you seriously get those kinds of responses regularly from devs (game devs no less), maybe it's you.

    Edit:
    Then again, I'm even nice to the people who write nasty emails to me. I've only received a few, but usually I'm able to resolve the issue and the other person thanks me.

    Game devs, in my experience, are notoriously cool people.
     
  13. Moonjump

    Moonjump Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2010
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    Lincoln, UK
    I keep an iPod touch 1st gen for testing that my game still works on iOS 3. If I wasn't certain it could run on iOS 3, then I would up the minimum OS to one I could be certain of.

    My iPad 1st gen is still on iOS 4, both for testing and because of the reports of iOS 5 slowing down the device too much. Apps that raise their minimum OS in updates are a bit irritating, but at least I still have a working app. The apps that update with the same supported OS, but don't actually work on the older versions are really annoying as the end result in a non-functioning app that was working before.

    Testing the older OS before submission doesn't take long. Either do that or raise the minimum.
     
  14. PèreGoriot

    PèreGoriot Well-Known Member

    Sep 9, 2012
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    #14 PèreGoriot, Sep 12, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2012
    Results so far (about 150 non-working apps, all their programmers contacted !!):

    - 10% of the programmers said "thanks" and "we will fix". They fixed. They are cool. The updated app now works with iOS313. Thanks them !

    - 10% of the programmers said "thanks" and "we will fix". They fixed. The fix didn't work at all. App still crashes. They won't fix again, they don't know how to. The updated app doesn't work on iOS313.

    - 10% of the programmers said "thanks" and "we will fix". And they never fix. The app is never updated and will never work again on iOS313.

    - 10% of the programmers said "thanks" and "we will fix". And they push the app to iOS32/iOS4/iOS5. The old app doesn't work on iOS313, and the updated one doesn't work on iOS313.

    - 10% of the programmers ask a screen grab of the app (but, it doesn't even load !). Or ask you to upgrade to iOS6. Or ask you to buy another iDevice. Or some other stupid comments. App is not updated and doesn't work on iOS313.

    - 49% of the programmers just ignore you. (Even big famous rich companies). Being polite and nice, giving all details, providing crash report, etc, doesn't help at all. They just don't care. They just ignore. No answers.

    - 1% of the programmers insult you. Yes. They insult you.


    --> So, only 10% of the apps are now fixed. 90% of the apps stay non-working. So 10% of the programmers are really cool. And 90% of the apps are now in the dustbin forever.
     
  15. TheBunny

    TheBunny Well-Known Member

    Nov 8, 2008
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    MMO Mac Lead ZeniMax Online
    Baltimore
  16. PèreGoriot

    PèreGoriot Well-Known Member

    Sep 9, 2012
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    Too much time, during monthes, because of lame programmers and careless Apple ! Perhaps I should stop the fight and accept to be f*cked by them.

    How much MONEY is lost ? Each app is 1$, 2$, 3$,..., lost... That's a large sum now.

    How much savegames/progress is lost ? How many hours were lost playing a game I now can't play anymore and can't finish ?


    Ah, old joke !
    Do you think an iPhone3G with iOS42 is a good idea ? Do you know how many apps crash on iPhone3G ? Do you know how much so-called-iOS42-compatible apps are not iOS4 compatible ? Do you know how much so-called-3G-compatible apps are not compatible ? How many weeks before a 3GS becomes incompatible with many apps sold as compatible with it ? Etc...


    Yeah, but the +2% money are worth the programmers. Why are they selling non-working apps ? They know the apps crash (they have been contacted many times), but they continue to sell them as iOS3-compatible !


    Note: the numbers can be wrong ! Once, one programmer write me some insults, like "I looked my Flurry numbers, and there are 0% iOS3 users !!! You are a d*ck !!!". Yeah, its app doesn't even load in iOS3, and the guy is proud to say that 0% of users are iOS3 users. Damn stupid programmer.
     
  17. amroc

    amroc Well-Known Member

    Feb 12, 2010
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    London, England
    #17 amroc, Sep 15, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2012
    The reality is that Apple want people upgrading and using the latest versions of their OSes and hardware. They haven't stated this, but their intention is clear. With every major new XCode and SDK release, testing support for an older version of the SDK is removed. In Mountain Lion and the iOS 6 SDK, the oldest simulator available to test on is now 5.0. Despite people's efforts nobody has yet got the 4.3 simulator working on Mountain Lion, as far as I know.

    Additionally, it's either very difficult or impossible to downgrade your hardware, so testing on old devices+old OSes is extremely challenging. You have to buy hardware second hand that hasn't yet been updated, which is not practical and getting harder to find.

    I'm about to update Spirit and it's going to have an iOS 5 minimum version now. I know people might consider this extreme, but I really have no way to test on pre iOS 5 devices now. So either I'll get negative feedback from inevitable crashes on older hardware if I attempt to continue supporting 3+, or negative feedback on the high minimum ver requirement. I think it's far better to go with the latter.
     
  18. PèreGoriot

    PèreGoriot Well-Known Member

    Sep 9, 2012
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    Hello,

    So, did you try to contact some of these cool programmers ? Did you try to explain them their bug and how to fix it ?
    Did you get any answer ? No answer at all ? Zero ?
    They did not fix any app ? Zero ? That's not cool.

    Thanks for trying.
     
  19. syntheticvoid

    syntheticvoid Well-Known Member

    Jun 20, 2010
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    Musician & Translator
    a[V-O-I-D]
    lmao...



    sorry... this thread is hilarious.
     
  20. banger1103

    banger1103 Well-Known Member

    Jun 26, 2011
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    The OP needs to chill out and stop wasting his time. Devs aren't going to go out of their way to support a very outdated OS that barely has a market. It's just not worth their time, so I suggest you give up.
     

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