I wasnt commenting on their decision to withdraw the notice but the reasoning behind the move. I'm not an expert on copyrights/trademarks and I'm sure most of us here arent either, so I wont be making any comments on that. What I care about is the intention behind any such move. If someone is just trying to benefit from other's sucess just coz they have a couple of words trademarked before them, thats evil in my eyes and I wont support it. If they are just trying to save thier own game (which has been doing extremely well on its own), I cant really blame them. From their response, its now pretty clear what their intentions were behind this move. The fact that they even tried to get a few apps removed (or maybe they didnt and it was just mis-communication ) was a bad move but everyone can make mistakes and they already withdrew it (even if it was mostly coz how badly this move went for them). Personally I wouldnt have blamed them much even if they didnt withdraw the notice after knowing the exact reasons behind this (though I wouldnt have approved of it either). Lets face it, DJ is making money for them and quite a bit too. If I was in their place, I too would try and act in any way I could to safeguard it from any possible danger.
Were there any doubts to their intentions? They were very clear in that they wanted EVERY game (not just a few apps as you mention) with the word "Doodle" to either change it, or be removed from the Store. The goal was clearly for Doodle Jump to be the only game with Doodle on its title. It was of course a ridiculous goal as they've come to realize. The extremely lame explanation of the character's name does little to change the fact that they felt entitled to the exclusivity of the word and were bullying small devs with threats of legal action (and no actual trademark to speak of) until they went after the wrong one (as has been proven in the past by the Langdell case, a fatal mistake). All in all a weak attempt to salvage an unsalvageable situation.
This is why trademark law can be such a pain in the ass. There is a giant grey area that lies in concept of brand confusion and whether there is a reasonable likelihood that one brand is to be confused with another. You can't nail down terms like "reasonable" or "likely" so this sort of thing comes up and will continue to come up a lot. However, there are two things here that I think lend themselves to many people still remaining angry at, or at least suspicious of, Lima Sky -- and I share a certain degree of that scepticism: 1) Tim Langdell. Like it or not, for us iOS folks (and really, for quite a few others well outside the iOS domain), Langdell was and will always be the first and biggest trademark troll, and any time the issue of trademark infringement comes up in a high profile case like this, we are always going to be suspicious of the instigator's motives because of him. 2) The dubious nature of Igor's lawyer's purported advice. For me, this is the biggest issue because we can't decide if it's a canard or a lawyer being greedy: Either one is plausible under the circumstances, and it is one of those two. No patent lawyer worthy of any respect would have suggested Igor go after anyone with "doodle" in their game title when it's a virtual certainty that any attempts to trademark the word would be rejected, especially before getting the USPTO's decision to that effect. We'll probably never know the truth and that will cast a pall on some people's view of Igor and the Lima Sky brand. Unfortunately nobody can un-ring that bell, so all that can be done now is to move on.
Is it? There is a third (and much more likely IMO) option. In my experience with lawyers (albeit limited) they have to do what you want them to do, even if it's against their counsel. Like, say, send letters to indie developers that get intimidated just reading the name of the law firm. It happens all the time. The small guy will comply and change the name to avoid the hassle 9 times out of 10 (Just look at the OP and many others). I've seen it countless times. If it looks "legal" they just assume the other party has a strong case.
This doesnt really make sense to me coz lima sky isnt going to benefit in any real way by getting others to remove the word doodle from their app name. Its not like they were trying to benefit from other other apps success and asking for part of the profits made with those app sales. This is what makes sense.. Once again, I claim no real knowledge behind all these trademark stuff, but if it is what they are saying here, their move is understandable. one of the top 10 apps in appstore for almost 2 years, I'd be a fool not to try and safeguard it in any way possible. I think I quoted a bit too much there. This was the relevant part.. If there was such a possiblity, I'd be doing what limasky did too. Wouldnt you?
I think you've got the timeline wrong. Acceleroto only applied for the trademark AFTER Lima Sky asked them to remove the word Doodle from his game (which is in no way mistakable for Doodle Jump). AFTER. So the whole explanation seems awfully convenient. What was the reason to go after Doodle Hockey and many others BEFORE then? And of course they knew their application would be rejected. Even the worst lawyer would know they had nothing to fear from that. I suspect they only applied to give more weight to their C&D letters (trademark in process), again see the OP, who thought they were violating their "copyright" (that should tell you all you need to know about how easy it is to confuse and scare small devs).
Let me introduce you to Leo Stoller (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Stoller) This man registered the trademark "stealth" and many others, he fought companies like Northrop Grumman for their B2 Stealth Fighter, and he is probably the worst trademark troll ever. Here is a very good article by Colin Moynihan for the New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/04/business/04stealth.html?pagewanted=all
Untrue As a developer that received a cease and desist from Lima Sky, I take objection to Igor's comments if you read his reply. Within an hour of receiving the notification from Apple, I immediately emailed Igor to see if this was simply a misunderstanding. I received no reply. So I contacted his lawyer and copied him again. Still no reply. It has been many days now and I still have not heard a peep out of Mr. Pusenjak. And to be clear, my App has nothing to do with "jumping." Furthermore, we launched our title at almost the exact same time as Doodle Jump so we've been around a long time. So, don't believe any statements about Lima Sky saying that people didn't try to understand the other side of the story. -Jon
Can you say "P.R. nightmare?" Let's face it, Lima Sky backed down only to save what's left of their reputation. Didn't they realize that gamers jump all over this kind of behavior? As soon as the negative remarks started rolling in, they had to back down. If not for the backlash, they would still be pursuing their original intentions (whatever they may have actually been). It doesn't even matter if what they were doing was right or wrong. The only thing that counts is where they stand with public perception. After all, those gamers who reacted negatively are the same ones buying their games. But, is it too late?
How do you know what degree of legal knowledge Igor has, though? He started out just like any of us -- some friends got together and decided to do something. It just so happened that this something managed to become huge and he and his friends made a wad of cash from it. But success does not automatically impart knowledge or wisdom, particularly of complex legal concepts, and there's no reason to believe that Igor didn't just accept the advice of his counsel at face value for want of such knowledge, especially when such advice probably sounded perfectly plausible and necessary, even if it was distasteful. People who know a lot about something have little trouble convincing people who don't about what's necessary in a given situation. Would you second-guess a doctor telling you while you lay on a gurney in the emergency ward that you that you needed a procedure done or face dire consequences? (And before you cry false equivalency, this is about questioning an authority under pressure that you normally shouldn't need to be questioning, not about a life or death situation.) Now that's bad. How did he even get a trademark on a word like "stealth" approved with the USPTO? But at any rate I was more referring to more recent events us folks around here would be intimately familiar with and have followed. I'm sure there have been loads of trademark trolls, just as there are a disgusting number of patent trolls, but Langdell is the one around here whose name inspires the most bilious reaction when the topic of trademark trolling comes up.
Haha, thought you guys might jump in given your "expertise" in the area... So glad he got B*tch slapped by IGDA/ removed from the board.
And how do you? You said there were ONLY 2 possibilities, crappy lawyer or greedy lawyer, which is clearly not the case as I provided you with a perfectly plausible third option. Also both seem rather unlikely. Few lawyers are that incompetent and as for greed, what's the big payout? They make no sense. And I do cry false equivalency. He was under no pressure, had ample time to research the subject and the fact that he has been in direct contact with developers on the matter (instead of the attorney) suggests he has. None of us here are lawyers, but we can have a basic understanding of trademark law all the same. I'd be very surprised if Igor was totally clueless on the subject. Plus the very fact that he commented on the story contradicting his lawyer's advice should tell you all you need to know regarding his willingness to question an authority (and this time under extreme pressure I would assume). They usually don't though. They had the misfortune that this went viral (much like their game). I can assure you other big publishers have gotten away with the exact same crap (Diner Dash).
this sucks:/ what is going to happen next? remove every game title that has the word "Defense" or "TD" on it?
I'm not claiming that I know any more than you do about the veracity of the claims on either side; I'm just an outside observer like almost everyone else here. But my position is to give Igor the benefit of the doubt in the absence of any compelling evidence to do otherwise. Igor claimed that he was advised that he was in jeopardy of losing his mark unless he acted to police it, in this case, again purportedly on the advice of his lawyer, by going after anyone who used "doodle" in the title of their game. This is the aforementioned pressure. It is true that if you do not police your trademarks, you will lose them. The wrong-headed move here was to suggest that this be done by trying to take down any game with the word "doodle" in the title, as this does not meet the necessary criteria of a title that could reasonably be confused with Lima Sky's brand -- even ignoring that the word "doodle" had not been trademarked at the time, and that the application for which would further be rejected. The question at issue here was whether it was the lawyer being incompetent or greedy -- or, per your posited third potion, whether Igor had his own motives for doing this himself. You argue that few lawyers are so incompetent as to suggest such a farcical course of action. I argue that Igor could not have been so clueless that he could not forsee the dire consequences of pursuing such action on his own, especially after the Langdell saga and the community uproar it created, and which he was absolutely present for. How could anyone not see how doing the exact same thing as Langdell did would generate the exact same results? I find it far less plausible that Igor would knowingly engage in an action that would doubtlessly undermine everything he's worked for thus far. There's a difference between going against your lawyer's advice not to talk about the issue publicly, and going against his advice when your trademark is on the line. The former may result in a certain backlash, but on the whole is a good thing if it gets both sides of the story out there at a time when it's needed to do damage control and protect his entire brand, much less his trademark.
