Lima Sky bringing down the hammer.. [update: Lima Sky responds, withdraws the notice]

Discussion in 'General Game Discussion and Questions' started by robotsvswizards.com, Jan 11, 2011.

  1. robotsvswizards.com

    robotsvswizards.com Well-Known Member

    Mar 29, 2010
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    #1 robotsvswizards.com, Jan 11, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2011
    Update
    What started out as a mere announcement of an upcoming update seems to have taken on a life of it's own.
    The thread was originally title:
    "Lima Sky bringing down the hammer - Doodle monster will get an update and a new name"
    I am assuming a moderator has changed it.

    Be excellent to each other and.......
    Party on dudes!
    -some guys 1989



    Original Post
    Well after a full year it looks like using the word "Doodle" violates Lima Sky's copyright.
    I suppose there is grounds for debate but given two factors we will change the name and move on.
    1. debating law costs money.
    2. We respect Lima Sky (since doodle jump is a cool game)

    We can't really debate it. In the Apple world they can pull your app just from mere implication. There is no proving you are right or wrong. Apple can simply remove an app based on Lima Sky's implication.

    Surprisingly seeing as how the only issue was using the word "doodle" in the title, I would expect to see some changes to a lot of games.


    Info for current version
    If it hasn't been pulled yet!


    [​IMG] Doodle Monster iPhone iPod (retina support)
    http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/doodle-monster/id352972243?mt=8

    [​IMG] Doodle Monster HD iPad only
    http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/doodle-monster-hd/id400493734?mt=8

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  2. Arashi541

    Arashi541 Well-Known Member

    Wow seriosly i used to respect lima sky now they just ruined it. I mean seriously at least 1000s of games use the non descript word doodle in their games like doodle army or doodle cart. They cant do that to people unless they copyrighted the word doodle which i dont think they did.
     
  3. Epox

    Epox Well-Known Member

    Jul 30, 2010
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    wtf how many doodle apps are out there and they pick on u
     
  4. So the word "Doodle" is copyrighted now? I wonder how much I owe Lima Sky in royalties just by using "Doodle" in this post. :rolleyes:
     
  5. TiltMyTouch

    TiltMyTouch Well-Known Member

    Jun 10, 2010
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    I have already long stopped recommending Doodle Jump and this solidifies my position.
     
  6. doodlejumper

    doodlejumper Well-Known Member

    Jan 27, 2010
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    Stuck in traffic
    Uh, maybe I should stay out of this discussion... ;)
     
  7. han0007

    han0007 Well-Known Member

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    I reckon, unless we want a million posts in one day xD
     
  8. crex

    crex Doctor of Game of the Week-ology

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    [email protected] Lima Sky and there fantastic game! Paper Monsters sounds good though.
     
  9. iPhoneGlobs

    iPhoneGlobs Well-Known Member

    Mar 14, 2009
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    Apple once recognized "Doodle" as a game type.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. crex

    crex Doctor of Game of the Week-ology

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    If thats true, then you should be able to use the word Doodle. Right?
     
  11. Acceleroto

    Acceleroto Well-Known Member

    My $0.02 -> Igor is flexing a muscle that he doesn't have.

    I have a game called Doodle Hockey in the App Store. I've been extremely quiet about this, but I have been in a trademark opposition battle with Lima Sky over it for the past several months. It's a very long & boring legal story, but here's the short version:

    Igor contacted me prior to release of my game Doodle Hockey & asked me to rename it. We talked via email then on the phone for 42 minutes. It was a very civil conversation & he seems like a great & very likable guy. He & I actually have quite a few common interests. We don't see US Trademark law the same. I told him I'd think about it & also told him I wasn't promising that I'd change it.

    Lima Sky has only recently (i.e. in 2010) started "policing" their mark.

    Lima Sky owns the trademark for "Doodle Jump." This is USPTO Serial Number 77969334 & Registration Number 3870107. The trademark was registered (aka finalized or awarded) Nov 2, 2010.

    Lima Sky currently has a "design only" trademark published for opposition for the main character of their game. This is USPTO Serial Number 77969664.

    Lima Sky does not own the trademark for the word "doodle."

    Lima Sky applied for the the trademark of "doodle." This is USPTO Serial Number 85079944. This trademark was rejected because "Registration of the applied-for mark is refused because of a likelihood of confusion with the mark in U.S. Registration No. 3327023." Their rejection office action from the USPTO's designated lawyer contained 81 attachments of other trademark filings including Math Doodles and others.

    There were other applications on mobile devices, computers, and web pages containing the word doodle at least as early as 1997. Miniclip.com has several doodle-themed & doodle-named titles that were released before Doodle Jump.

    Doodle Jump wasn't the first application in the iPhone App Store that contained "doodle" in the title.

    As of Dec 12, 2010, there have been at least 681 applications released in the iPhone App Store containing the word "doodle" in their title.

    It's my impression that Igor is starting to chase out the "small guys" first. The big houses aren't afraid of him. One of them even used the word "absurd" to describe what he's doing. It's easy for someone to scare "small guys" out of business with legal threats. It's my guess that Lima Sky's intent here is to get as much momentum as they can with hopes of kicking all of the doodle-named apps out of the App Store.

    These are just my impressions. I, of course, do not speak for Lima Sky, Igor, or his lawyer(s).

    Every lawyer I've spoken with thinks Igor doesn't have a leg to stand on here. There are piles & piles of examples of trademarks like this coexisting. (I know you guys have heard of Star Wars & Star Trek, right?)

    Igor or someone representing Lima Sky may chime in here. Here's the deal. Everyone with an app containing the word "doodle" in the title needs to stand up to Lima Sky's threats. If we let him attack each of us one by one and allow him to roll over us, well, that would be bad.

    If you get a notice from Apple, it will state that you need to respond to Apple within 5 days with info that you have either resolved the matter or that you don't believe that you infringe on the referenced trademark.

    If we all stand together on this, the little guy won't be so little. I'm fighting this. You should too.
     
  12. crazygambit

    crazygambit Well-Known Member

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    #12 crazygambit, Jan 11, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2011
    Agree 100%. I'm tempted to make a doodle game just to spite them.

    PlayFirst is doing the same with the "Diner" word. And just as in this case they have no legitimate case. However they've already made some of the little guys rollover.

    I would refer everyone to the Tim Langdell's Edge case against EA. A trademark troll that after going after the little guys for decades decided to go against a big one, that decided to fight back. Needless to say, Langdell will be lucky to remain pennyless and avoid prison (for numerous fraudulent trademarks).

    There's no reason to give in so easily.

    Here is an excellent summary of the Edge case, via NeoGaf.

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=409947
     
  13. Little White Bear Studios

    Little White Bear Studios Well-Known Member
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    Sounds like we've got a bully in the App Store. :(
     
  14. robotsvswizards.com

    robotsvswizards.com Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, we are actually thinking twice about renaming after hearing we arent the only ones.

    The is actually a toy that has been out for about 10 years called doodle monster. It made by one of the big companies like fisher price one of those.
    Just one of the many examples that doodle has been out before doodle jump.

    I feel pretty confident this would get laughed out of court but it is apple that is threatening to remove out app within 5 days unless Lima Sky shows them that we have reached and agreement.

    That makes it a little tougher.
     
  15. moleki

    moleki Well-Known Member
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    It reminds me of the Edge story. Maybe we should rename iBlast Moki to Doodle Moki and StarDunk to StarDoodle.
     
  16. Prab

    Prab Moderator
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    DoodleArcade? :p
     
  17. Acceleroto

    Acceleroto Well-Known Member

    Per the Dev agreement with Apple, they can pretty much remove any app for any reason. However, your notice from Apple should include this text:

    So, if you don't infringe on anyone's rights, I say tell Apple.
     
  18. robotsvswizards.com

    robotsvswizards.com Well-Known Member

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    Yeah,agreed
    thats where we will start
     
  19. crazygambit

    crazygambit Well-Known Member

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    Trademarks are usually given for specific purposes. There can be a gaming company called Square(-Enix now) and a payment company called Square. As long as they can't be easily mistaken for one another, there's no trademark infringement. So I would focus exclusively on games when you make your case to Apple. As has been mentioned there are plenty of doodle games out already, some of which predate doodle jump.

    As long as you can convincingly demonstrate that no one in their right mind would confuse your game with theirs, they have no case IMO.
     
  20. DaveMc99

    DaveMc99 Well-Known Member

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    #20 DaveMc99, Jan 11, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2011

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