Legalization of Marijuana?

What public service announcement did you get that info from?

I'm guessing it's safe to assume you don't actually have any first hand experience with the stuff

 

Effects of Marijuana <<<<<< Effects of Alcohol

That is all you need to know. Make it legal already. There is no argument for keeping it illegal if you are informed about the facts.

 

I think Arn was a doctor in California, I wonder what he thinks about marijuana's potential in medicine and doctors that give their recommendation just by paying your bill.

 

Not all, but the majority would.

Alcohol is legal, but there's still moonshiners, after all.

That said, not many people drink moonshine nowadays. Big during Prohibition, but nowadays...not so much. Distilleries owned and operated by large multinational corporations have taken the alcohol business over.

Same thing would happen with marijuana.

Yes, and those current growers would then be under contract to provide product to their new corporate sponsors (who, quite frankly, might even buy the land outright).

That's an assumption based on faulty logic.

The very illegality of the drug is what drives the prices up, not down. If legal, with corporate competition, and with larger quantities on the market (after all, if legal said corporations, who already have contracts with farmers and/or own their own farmland in various areas of the world, would increase the quantity on market) the prices would be driven DOWN.

See ATF vs. moonshiners.

See corporate dollars via special interest groups driving the fight to said illegal sellers.

See said illegal sellers not finding the worth in selling the product any longer as they themselves would always be undercut by the corporate product.

Honestly now...do you listen to yourself? If you have friends who deal and they plan to attempt to cut price as you've stated, they should not be in the game. They don't have the brains for it, and aren't cut out for it. Any dealer worth his salt knows the cachet of the product they sell is in large part due to the underground nature of it driving prices UP, not DOWN.

Competition via price wars RARELY happens between dealers because the game is to keep price many multiple levels higher than the costs associated with selling, manufacturing and/or distributing. That's the game. Ask any dealer if they want it legal and the answer, from the smart ones, is "hell no". They cannot compete with multinationals, and they know it. Especially since many thrive as regional players at best.

Different discussion. You're talking about medical marijuana. The topic is clearly asking about across the board legalization.

Buying weed at a dispensary isn't cheaper because the amount of medically legal pot is scarce. That keeps prices up. Legalize it, it becomes a mass market product, and that drives prices DOWN. Prices go down, regional players find themselves driven out of business due to the simple fact that they would not be able to compete on an even keel with nationals or multinationals on any level. Again, even trying to lower price is folly as at that point dealing on a street level wouldn't be worth it.

 

I honestly don't care what people do to themselves. It's their choice if they want to hurt themselves, they ought to have the right to do so. However, I had to vote "No" in this poll, because the use or marijuana can hurt people around the user, and that's a problem.

Marijuana hurts your ability in these areas:

• Cognitive Functions
• Learning/Memory
• Movement

Put someone higher than a kite behind the wheel of a car and it quickly becomes a several ton weapon at the disposal of an impaired judgement, reckless junkie. Again, I honestly don't care if that person wants to hurt themselves, but when their family, friends, and innocent pedestrians begin to get hurt or are put in danger, then there's a problem. Wanting marijuana legalized is pretty selfish, because it allows you to feel good while you hurt the ones around you.

Don't believe me? Read This

Not even those with a medical condition should use marijuana because virtually any doctor you talk to, including the American Medical Association, agrees that there are better treatments for pain then marijuana.

Bottom line, if innocent people are getting hurt because of marijuana, then it has to stay illegal.

 

Other stepping stone drugs include alcohol and tobacco.

Ask just about any addict, and they'll tell you they first started drinking at an early age or sneaked a couple of cigarettes in school. Only later do they "step up" to usage of illegal drugs.

And it isn't the drug itself that makes them "step up" but rather their own psychological state tied with the effect of the drug. There are those who drink and never smoke, those who drink and smoke but not weed, those who drink and smoke weed who never snort coke or shoot up H, etc., etc., etc.

Besides which, you ask for a "good reason", and here is one:

Most dealers start young. Particularly in poorer urban communities. Now, the dealers that they wind up working for don't give them the expensive product (harder drugs like coke or even crack/cocaine) because if caught that means an increase in potentially lost revenue. Also, the youngsters, although full of bravado, usually want to go soft their first time out for a variety of factors: selling weed carries lower penalties for 1st time offenders compared to harder drugs, there's less of a stigma associated with the drug so there's less questioning of morals/ethics on the part of the young prospective dealer, less of a chance of shake downs from rivals, and the kid has a large first audience to which to sell the drug (peers of the same age group, who are usually more inclined to buy weed than most any other drug).

So they usually start on the low end of the chain, which almost always means selling weed. He sells it in areas he feels comfortable (around peers). He feels more comfortable because he knows even if caught the penalty won't be as severe as if he was carrying crack with intent to sell. Plus, if there is any self reflection as to the path his life has taken, he is secure in the idea that what he's selling "isn't that bad".

And what happens?

The kid makes some cash. Makes money. Buys stuff. Feels good about himself.

But...but he wants more money.

And that's when the more experienced dealer under whose tutelage he's under will take him to the side and tell him that the real money isn't in pot. The real money is in this harder stuff.

And that's when the kid "graduates" into a lifer.

You are right.

Pot is a gateway drug. But in this case the gateway isn't on the user end, but on the dealer end. The illegal status of the drug alongside the social acceptance has made it the perfect type of product to sell for apprentices to learn the game.

You make it legal...maybe some of those kids think twice about getting in on that game. Understand?

 

So does alcohol.

Yet...it's legal.

They tried to make it illegal.

Y'know what happened there?

The rapid growth of organized crime in the U.S.

Innocent people are getting hurt because of alcohol, yet we learned, the hard way, that making it illegal for all was complete folly. It just made a bad thing worse.

 

This isn't about alcohol though, that's just beating a dead horse. This is about marijuana.

 

But at least with only one drug with these effects being legal, the cops are only chasing half of what it could be causing.

 

i agree with you. although it was a valid attempt to defend why u think it should stay illegal i dont agree. not only WOULD they contribute, but they would have to, just like we all have to. if they dont they get audited and shutdown, that simple. as for the people not caring for you, well that doesnt matter at all in any sense because they arent in it to "care" about you, and to be honest i could give a crap if the person im buying off of "cares" about me lol. all the money that would be gained from the government on taxing marijuana could be used for california education (that is my specific example cuz im from cali and our education is horrendous here). in my opinion there are way way more pros than cons in this debate, but have at it!

 

i hate people that make the argument that it is a "stepping stone" or gateway to other things, that is such total bs wow. i can honestly say ive been smokin for a couple years and the thought of doing others hasnt even crossed my mine, i have no interest in it so that arguement is bull, people use it cuz they are weak and its an easy excuse that everyone uses.

Hardcore guy, u seem very ignorant and close minded on this subject, have you heard of supply and demand? if there are more government "stands" providing it, yes it will be cheaper beacause if u dont like guyA's price go to guyB.
as far as outsiders of the country not willing to cooperate with the american government, just think once the price drops so low to where the people would literally be spending more on gas than profit they will stop. There are so many flaws in the "why it should stay illegal" argument

 

and this whole defense is also garbage. that link u posted is a pathetic study

"Of these 83 men, 30 percent said that they had used pot and 80 percent of those said that they had driven under the influence of marijuana at least once in the year before the study"

Really? you are going to try and use that, fellow smokers know that this is a bs study

 

I've got a love/hate relationship with reefer. love to smoke it, but hate how lazy it makes me. It would be fine if I was an occasional smoker, but I apparently can't seem to muster up the will power to cut back or stop.

but anyways, I don't really think legalizing pot is necessary.
I mean seriously, (in my experience) cops don't even care about a little pot.
my best friend got busted last week (somebody else was driving his car), he came straight forward to the cop about the pot he just smoked, and the cop smashed his pipe and let him go with a free "fix-it" ticket for having no proof of insurance. I'm sure they're just relieved to not be dealing with some lying dirtbag all hopped up on PCP or something. I'm by no means condoning smoking on the roadways, or smoking in general, but most officers are pretty cool if you don't try to lie to them. after dealing with scum everyday, lecturing the occasional pothead is probably a breath of fresh air for them.

I understand that other places may not be so lenient. but if you're smoking "responsibly", in a safe environment (home), then you shouldn't have to worry about it being legal anyways.

P.S. don't smoke and drive. (god forbid) if you're involved in an accident that's not even your fault, you can face serious consequences for smoking a little pot.

P.P.S. legalizing pot was proposed here in Nevada, and to make up for the money the state would lose, they proposed extremely strict DUI laws, contributing to minor laws, etc. which would likely cost your typical stoner much more in the end. ever got a DUI? they're not cheap. as of right now, (worst case scenario) they'll just write you a misdemeanor ticket and send you on your way (where I live).
and while I absolutely would rather people just avoided the situation by not smoking, nobody's perfect. certainly not me

 

yes, legalize but put an age to it like beer like you have to be 21 to smoke it and medical marijuana is good too

 

Agreed - you really have to pay attention when reviewing statistics.

35% of 83 of the people polled had been involved in a car accident (=29.05 participants)

30% of the men surveyed admitted to smoking pot (I'm assuming they meant over a lifetime, it doesn't specify). 30% of 83 = 24.9 participants

80% of those 24.9 participants who admitted to smoking weed also admitted to driving under the influence of marijuana (19.92 participants)

But, the study does not say that the men who had admitted to driving under the influence of marijuana within the past year of the study were using at the time of their accidents

It is very interesting to note that the study in no way mentions or states that the men who were involved in the accidents and the men who admitted to driving under the influence of marijuana are linked in any way. They put two separate statistics together to make it appear that there was an association between the two.

You need to be weary of any study put out by an insurance company or law firm. They often manipulate the statistics to try and prove their point.

 

Lets also just say that driving under the influence of marijuana for the heavy user is not close to as dangerous as that of someone driving under that of alcohol.

Some of the arguments against legalization in this thread seem to come from ppl just fed lies from organizations funded by the tobacco and alcohol companies which sell far more dangerous products.

Well at least there is legal medical weed here in california haha. And the stuff is good.

 

Ignorant? I smoke pot all the time, so much it keeps me from being a proactive member of society. It makes me lazy, procrastinate, and keeps me from being social. As I grow up trying to make my way through Comm. College I realize its an activity of mine that will probably cease after I turn 21. I'll never be able to get the quality job I want if I were to continue smoking pot. My lifelong dream is to help in determining medical uses of marijuana.
If anything you are ignorant to think the government would ever (even if it was legalized) want you to smoke marijuana and they will keep prices high. You think their gonna make pot cheaper so the crackhead can spend more money on crack, and still get a fix to calm down? When something is regulated like that, the government taxes the hell out of it. Like cigarettes, in my home state of Virginia where tobacco is our cash crop, they are $4 a pack, my friend said he went into a shop in Chicago and they are $9 a pack. It's not like Chicago has a shortage of cigarettes, the government there just doesn't care for tobacco to be a part of their state. Now think about 50 states where for a 100 years there is already a multibillion dollar war against marijuana, you think the legislators are going to roll over on their back and give you marijuana dirt cheap? I'm sure they'll be laughing at you all the way to the bank, they will never make it easy to get, it'll be a luxary like crown royal or patrone. They won't make it so cheap that high school students can scrape the change out of their cars and get a 10 pack of joints. When it comes to things that make you feel good, they are going to charge as much as they can.
I don't even know why it's even a question of should it be legalized though, cause it won't be, there is to much money in enforcing it, there's no way to really tell if you are DUI, and the majority of the people that care to smoke it are people that the government cares the least about ( they provide the lowest taxes, your probably more likely to be a part of adolescent valdalism, and I'd be willing to bet that more than 90% of criminals in federal prisons would consider themselves pot smokers)

 

ok first of all let me clarify, yes i still believe you are ignorant, even more now so with this post. people always assume you are attacking them when you are calling someone ignorant, im not attacking you, you just seem to be so stuck on your side you do not even give the other side a chance. i am probably the complete opposite of you, i didnt have my first hit till i was 18 when i was in Cmm College. i smoked maybe 3 times after that then i finished my school and went to get a very good job at a hospital afterwards.
I smoke pot all the time, so much do it keeps me from being a proactive member of societythese are the thoughts that give marijuana a bad name, thats just YOU!! i love it, i love to smoke and then go out in public, thats fun to me.
If anything you are ignorant to think the government would ever (even if it was legalized) want you to smoke marijuana and they will keep prices high
once again this is simple supply and demand, our couple hundred year old method of "government" is not going to withstand a tactic that has ben around thousands of years. when there is an abundance of a product it sells cheaper, when its harder to get i.e. illegal it is more expensive period, there is no arguing that.
You think their gonna make pot cheaper so the crackhead can spend more money on crack, and still get a fix to calm down?what the **** are u even saying there? you continue in that paragraph on complete nonsense, you need to do your research, i know your opinion but what u say here is just wrong. just because your state's cash crop is tobacco you should have them cheaper? well the reason behind that is that they put a whole lot of new cigarrette taxes on recently, the reason they are so much more is because part of the extra money that people are spending on cigs is going to research cures for some of the diseases that they cause.... and as far as crown and patrn being luxuries? really? a better example maybe would have been louis XIII or don julio, cmon now.
I don't even know why it's even a question of should it be legalized though, cause it won't be, there is to much money in enforcing it, there's no way to really tell if you are DUI, and the majority of the people that care to smoke it are people that the government cares the least about ( they provide the lowest taxes, your probably more likely to be a part of adolescent valdalism, and I'd be willing to bet that more than 90% of criminals in federal prisons would consider themselves pot smokers) i would honestly be ashamed of myself if i ever thought this way, for you to sit there and think that you are better than someone else, let alone someone you dont even know... u should really take a step back before u start doing that. Wth that being said, im just debating and giving my .02, but you seem to shoot opinions as if they were fact which is bad debating technique!

 

It keeps you from being social?

The only time I ever smoke is with friends, and then we just loiter, talk, relax, and listen to music. For me weed is a social thing. I never smoke alone because then I am lazy and never accomplish anything, but with friends, it is very much an active thing.
Also I wouldn't say that the people who smoke are in the bottom of the barrel. At my high school, a majority of the top 25 in the graduating class smoke, and so do many people on athletic teams. I know one person who has a full ride scholarship for athletics to a large college. I am starting the International Bacheloriate program at my high school (the most rigorous academic program available) and I like to smoke once a month or so. Maybe more, maybe less. A relative of mine graduated a few years ago with such a great scholarship they* are going to pay less than 1/2 of a year's scholarship for their* full college education, (excluding books, room and dorm, and the general cost of living).


*using their and they are grammatically incorrect in that instance, since they are both plural, and the subject is singular, however, I did not want to reveal the gender of my relative, and the english language does not have a gender neutral possessive pronoun. I considered using "thon" a commonly accepted gender neutral pronoun, but it is not part of standard english.