It's crazy how cheap idevice games are

Discussion in 'General Game Discussion and Questions' started by Stirolak26, Oct 10, 2010.

  1. Stirolak26

    Stirolak26 Well-Known Member

    Sep 19, 2010
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    Even by big time companies. On top of that there are constant price drops and free promotions. How so those companies even make money or justify developing for it. If they give it out even when they update it they can't Harte those people again can they? So whats the point of dropping price so low or giving the game out? I mean you can get a full ragman 2 game on iPhone or iPad for 5 bucks on app store when even a used copy at gamestop for any system will probably cost 8. So why do people even use wiiware or pan network and steam when you got the app store (I'm talking about the people who have multiple systems or devices). Why is it so cheap compared to steam or wiiware, psn, etc.? And whats crazy is the amounts of good games like full blown ragman 2, a full blown settlers game that goes for 3 to 5 times more for pc or other platforms, and not just mini games but long fps for example as well Heck ff1 sells for way more on psp for example. Also what is up with people talking trash about I pad games when most psp and ds games at full prices not even network games are 30 dollar mini games. Look at those cooking mania and such games on ds.
     
  2. SkyMuffin

    SkyMuffin Well-Known Member

    May 24, 2010
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    college student, ENG/WGS major
    Lexington, KY
    There are several reasons:

    1) There are lots of "coffeebreak" style games which are similar in nature to flash games. They are not fully-fleshed out, 20-60 hour games like many console or handheld games. Therefore, the price is not the same as a game that would be that long and well-developed. There are not many devs from PSN or Steam on the appstore because their games are much more complex, and they would be harder to design especially for the controls and display of the iDevice.

    2) Ports from other systems can be sold for much lower because:
    2a) They require no new content or development, just porting/switching over code
    2b) Digital distribution over costly physical
    2c) The majority of advertising costs nothing at all-- it's all word-of-mouth on places such as TouchArcade. Many ports are games which already have branding and therefore do not need additional advertising to generate sales.
    2d) Related to 2c, one could even suggest that some ports are of revivals of old games which are no longer generating sales (such as doom, for example, or the upcoming Final Fantasy Tactics port).
    2e) Many indie developers in the App Store market are teams of less than 10 or even 5 people-- there is a lot of money saved on administration and other bureaucracy.
     
  3. Stirolak26

    Stirolak26 Well-Known Member

    Sep 19, 2010
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    Do you really think stuff on steam that is indie is of higher quality and made up of larger dev teams than the app store? You weren't talking about retail games but a tuff you see on steam indie section, wiiware and pan network, plus there are big time devs on app store so there is no reason try cant port or makae those same pan network games on app store they just mostly seem not to want to. But in regards to steam, I mean what does the indie steam section have that is good outside machinarium? It pretty much has the same stuff as the app store and in much less quality. Like zombies vs plants and caster and crayon physics deluxe all of which are also on iPad. Plus iPad has stuff like warpgate and settlers which mimic real retail titles not steam indie stuff at a fraction of price.

    Look at all the crappy psp and ds games constantly coming out for 30 bucks a piece, outside of the top 8 games for both devices wouldn't you choose the top app store games over the rest?
     
  4. Stirolak26

    Stirolak26 Well-Known Member

    Sep 19, 2010
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    I mean how are all those short nippy icon games like batman and all those nippy icon games for psp like cladun any better than stuff like pico pico quest on the iPad at a fraction of even the psp pxn network price?

    Oh and regarding small dev studios the amiga game section was made up of like 1 to 3 people and in my opinion and the opinion of many up to this day the game selection overall is better than snes or gensis of that era. So how does the fact that iPad or iPhone games are made up of small dev studios imply they can't be more innovative and/or just as good?
     
  5. weehoo

    weehoo Well-Known Member

    Apr 12, 2010
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    Common sense, c'mon

    Games aren't that cheap. You pay $0.99, and get a $0.99 experience. How do developers make money when apps are so cheap? There are more than 200 million i-devices around the world. Apps go on sale because at $3.99 you will only get people that really want your game. When you drop it to $0.99 you will get the semi-curious, the cheap, and the people that were thinking about it but never made purchase. When an app goes free it gains user reviews and becomes more publicized. Most of the time the apps that drop to free are iAd supported which help some developers make much more than outright selling it.

    Price comparison-----$$$$$$$$$$
    A used ps2 game like GOD OF WAR 2 goes for about $10-$15. Some go for $5. Although there have been some ps2 ports like P.O.P. And Rayman, most games on the app store pale in comparison to the console-experience of even the old ps2. Before I get attacked for that statement, be assured I am aware of great titles like chaos ring, and MC2. However, if I buy medal of honor: European assault (ps2) for $7.99 and buy spiderman by gameloft for the same price, M.O.H. would be the better choice. As close as some of these games come to a console experience, they still aren't there yet. UNREAL and RAGE engines will change that soon, along with the prices.
     
  6. SkyMuffin

    SkyMuffin Well-Known Member

    May 24, 2010
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    college student, ENG/WGS major
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    #6 SkyMuffin, Oct 10, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2010
    Yes, right now it is simply by virtue of age-- the appstore is extremely young compared to the PC market, and the majority of strong titles on the appstore have been ports from other systems.
    Garry's Mod, vvvvvv, Puzzle Quest 1+2, Audiosurf, and Beat Hazard, to name a few. All you have to do is go to the "under 10$" section and you can find tons of good indie titles.

    Incidentally, many of the titles here, such as vvvvv and PQ, have been ported to the appstore. Others, such as Broken Sword, lots of Sega Genesis games, and others, have also been ported. People have seen the value of the appstore as a potential market, but yes, they have been slow to adapt to it.
    No, I wouldn't, because the DS and PSP are more serious, dedicated gaming devices which require many hours of investment. The iDevice, on the other hand, is an extremely mobile market where the majority of games are for people who just have 5-10 minutes here and there to kill. It's also lacking in support from large companies and less casual titles because, as I said earlier, it's an extremely young market.
     
  7. Stirolak26

    Stirolak26 Well-Known Member

    Sep 19, 2010
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    But wouldn't you at least admit that the a
    P store is of way higher quality than psp home brew stuff and most of psp shovel ware and even be better totally in some genres? For example I am a big time pc gamer and like real time strategy games like settlers, and modern warfare and arch are real gamesnot just coffee break stuff and you don't even have a single good rts game on psp and not even a single great one on ds either. Or what about racing games, wouldn't you rather play them with tilt like a real steering wheel than on psp or ds? Heck jet stunt cars is a real game too better than any driving or racing game on psp or ds IMO and its only like 3 bucks and it has many level and challenges. Oh yea and remember how short the first god of war for psp was? Or how crappy the psp gran truism was compared to the ps2 ones or how crappy the first metal heat for psp was compared to the ps2 ones?oh and what about platformers? How can the 2d psp platformers match these app store ones:

    Soosiz, rolando, castle of magic, ghosts and goblins, Giana sisters, etc. Psp has almost no 2d platformers and hardly and 3d ones too. And wouldn't you also say most of the psp rpg section is made up of typical Japanese rpg games no better an inotia 2 or zenonia outside maybe ys or afew e what is so good on the psp? I had one and never played anything be aide emulation on it as most people do just look T it's software sales.
     
  8. Stirolak26

    Stirolak26 Well-Known Member

    Sep 19, 2010
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    Heck rimelands is probably both longer and better than the psp dungeons and
    Dragons game. And psp is mostly made up of ports too or ps2 spinoffs at least the app store has unique stuff. And wouldn't you say the app store does have hardcore games (crystal war and jet stunt cars for example being very challenging) and real or long games as well? Even though they are a minority on the store if you really look for them they are there no?
     
  9. Stirolak26

    Stirolak26 Well-Known Member

    Sep 19, 2010
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    #9 Stirolak26, Oct 10, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2010
    IMO playing pizza boy was more fun than the new Mario bros on ds which was also incredibly short, but not more fun than the new Mario bros wii. Anyone agree. I'm talking about on iPad though whet ur fingers don't get in way of game. And wouldn't you say dungeon hunter HD or underworlds are better than dungeon explorer 1 or 2 on psp? And how are the ds or psp much more expensive btw Chinatown wars games any better than the iphone or iPad versions? Why the low price for arguably even superior games?
     
  10. Stirolak26

    Stirolak26 Well-Known Member

    Sep 19, 2010
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    I also want to respond to that last point. I agree with that in terms of iPhone gaming but not iPad. iPad offers much better of a gaming experience, more horsepower, and ppl use it at long periods of time at a time.
     
  11. Scaramoosh

    Scaramoosh Well-Known Member

    Feb 25, 2010
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    The only game I thought was worth it has been Angry Birds. No other game I've bought have I played for more than 5 mins. I would love to like GTA China Town Wars but the controls are just so bad and the lack of ped voices is annoying... just hope they update it for the iPhone 4.
     
  12. Zevious Zoquis

    Zevious Zoquis Well-Known Member

    Sep 20, 2010
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    Seriously? Only Angry Birds? Wow.

    I'll tell you, I think my iphone is quickly becoming the best gaming device I"ve ever owned. It is certainly and without any doubt the best portable gaming device. I've got a DSXL as well but the games available for the phone crap all over the DS library as far as I'm concerned (and for about 1/20 or less the price). Are there lots of quick pick up and play games in the app store? You bet...just the kind of games that work best on a portable device. I've put more time into some of those quick play games than I have many of the $60 magnum opuses I've bought for the PS3. I agree with the OP - I think right now the app store is an incredible bargain for gamers.
     
  13. Qordobo

    Qordobo Well-Known Member

    Jun 11, 2010
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    Well in RPG category the igaming is a little pale in comparison with the DS, for example:
    • Dragon Quest IX
    • Might & Magic Clash of Heroes
    • Infinite Space
    • SMT Devil Survivor
    • Suikoden Tiekkkeis
    • Dragon Quest V Remake
    • Dragon Quest IV Remake
    • Mystery Dungeon Shiren the Wanderer Remake
    • Final Fantasy IV Remake
    • Final Fantasy III Remake
    • Chrono Trigger Port
    • Mario & Luigi Partners in Time
    • Puzzle Quest 2
    • Puzzle Quest
    • Final Fantasy Tactic A2
    • Disgaea DS
    • Lock's Quest
    • And more.
    What could compare on iDevice? Let see:
    • Puzzle Quest ok.
    • Chaos Ring: Perhaps, I haven't played it, but its core gameplay is 4h and a longer gameplay is only based on replay with few changes. Also its price is higher and lowest sales was not top bottom prices.
    • Rimelands: Very cool with a good original fight system, but it's rather casual compared to more classical RPG.
    • Doom II RPG: Good quality but casual game hard to compare to best DS RPG.
    • Undercroft: Old school, some solid contents, good gameplay length, but if it compares favorably to some of the good DS RPG it's not those among the top 20.
    • Crimson Gem Saga: In term of length and story stuff amount it compares easily to DS RPG. But but, the gameplay quality doesn't. From weak fighting system to very generic story, world populating tedious, strong tendency to linear exploration. Overall you can't compare it to DS Top 20 if not more.
    • There's also a series of port of old remakes that are good to very good picks (FF 1&2, Shining Force and more) but well you can't compare to fresh blood and high quality and well tuned DS remakes like FF series, DQ series or Shiren.
    • The War of Eusthrath, Underworlds, Zenonia 2: Ok but again you can't compare them to a Top 20 on DS.
    • Battle of Wesnoth & Dink small wood: Well it's games you can play for free on PC.
    • Ravensword: It's short and almost causal and with nothing very impressive if you forget the nice 3D on iphone.
    • And many more I tried didn't show me a quality that worth a top 20 or even top 30 DS RPG, like Elven Chronicles, Inotia, Crusade of Destiny, Monster RPG 2, Across Age, Dungeon Hunter, Luna Story, Necromancer Rising and some more.

    I haven't tried them all or haven't play enough some of them like Knightfall, Heroes Lore, Shining Core, Seed 2, The Quest, ChronoSgear, and more. But well if one or two could compare to a top 20 RPG on DS I'd be surprised not have knew it already and it won't be more than 1 or 2.
     
  14. Zevious Zoquis

    Zevious Zoquis Well-Known Member

    Sep 20, 2010
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    #14 Zevious Zoquis, Oct 10, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2010
    it really depends what you're looking for. I'm not very interested in rpgs at all. Not only do I generally find them boring, but its just not the sort of game I ever really play on a portable device. If I'm going to play a game that requires hours of dedicated play to progress from point A to point Z I'm more inclined to do it on the PS3 or PC. In my circumstance the quickplay games like Flight Control, Fruit Ninja, Tilt To Live, Angry Birds just fit the bill for what I need in portable games. In many ways I prefer games where I'm up against myself trying to beat my own best score anyway. The beauty of the iphone is that I have to have a cellphone with me throughout the day just for my job. I don't have to have a DS or a GBA or a PSP...so having a device that is both a good phone and a good game machine is a huge advantage. I can fill the minutes during coffee break or downtime without having to carry a seperate machine around.

    There are other things I really like about the iphone too though. I think the touch screen is fantastic - particularly for games designed specifically for it. Its incredibly sensitive and once you get used to it it works wonderfully. Visually the screen is lovely too - much nicer than the DS screens which are low res and just plain dull looking. Not having to carry cards or carts around is nice as well.

    But even with rpgs, compare the cost of your DS rpgs to the cost of the ones for the iphone. You probably can buy ten rpgs for the phone for the price of one for the DS. Now price isn't the sole important factor of course...if a game sucks it sucks - being free or cheap doesn't change that. But I'm pretty sure theres a few decent rpgs for the iphone and they likely don't cost more than a few dollars each so its a pretty good deal.

    I've currently got about 40 games on my phone and I don't think I've spent more than about $60 - the cost of a single PS3 game - in total. I've bought way too many PS3 games over the past couple years that I ended up playing for less than an hour before tiring of them.
     
  15. Qordobo

    Qordobo Well-Known Member

    Jun 11, 2010
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    The handled thing is another point of view, for me all are too small anyway even the DSXL is at unpleasant limits, and that's why I only play on iPad, so I don't feel very concerned. :)

    But your previous post wasn't only about (small) handled devices. I don't play much more on DSXL but when I did it was definitely in competition with the PC when it was for playing a game at home or even at desk. On that point of view your assumption about games quality on DS vs iphone was quite chocking.

    For the games prices this is a complicate parameter for players like me that have a lot less time to play than games to play. Particularly for RPG that are games that last a long time. But I do agree the price could counter balance it. And many RPG fans could find some cheap RPG that they feel as a good gaming bargain, overall as worthy than better but much more expensive DS RPG or even PC RPG.

    But yes igaming is much more than playing RPG only. And funnily I gave up playing action/adventure/puzzle games since more than a decade for playing only RPG (some being action RPG) and with only very very few exceptions. But the iPad made me rediscover the action/adventure/puzzle gaming, with a fun quite comparable to when I was playing many different type of games many years ago. Touch controls is a part of the equation and focus on pure gameplay is another.
     
  16. Stirolak26

    Stirolak26 Well-Known Member

    Sep 19, 2010
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    I just originally made the post to figure out how these small dev studios or even major devs can justify making any games for advices when they are or have to be priced so low and how any of them justifying the price drops to .99 cents for many great games like geometry wars, beat trip, etc. That cost way more on other systems or networks or ones for free like undercroft? How does or will I device gaming ever bring in the big dogs with such prices and careless giving away of great games?
     
  17. Stirolak26

    Stirolak26 Well-Known Member

    Sep 19, 2010
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    I think the ff 4 remake and that new ff game recently came out as well as dragon quest and Zelda and Mario RPGs are the only good ds RPGs. The ds has way more RPGs but the rest IMO are even worst than the best 10 or so idevice RPGs. For instance they are porting zenonia to ds wiiware and it generated a score of 8 so that clearly Puts it as the cream of hue crop and its not even as good as the iDevice version outside of control. And the advices have across age which is pretty much as good as some of the best ys games or some 2d zeldas. At least the new version. If it never came out on iPhone but on ds the remake form it would at least get an 8 on ign I believe. And your logic is flawed when saying just because dink small wood ia on px for free it can't be compared. By that logic every game o. Ds is for free on pc with emulators that now run 100 percent full speed. The key is portability Nd tuning the game especially for the device.
     
  18. spacecowgoesmoo

    spacecowgoesmoo Well-Known Member

    Sep 4, 2008
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    Composer / Level Designer @ Bovinedragon Software
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    #18 spacecowgoesmoo, Oct 10, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2010
    Hahaha, of all the genres, are you really trying to compare them on the basis of RPG's? The worst RPG ever on either the DS or PSP beats 99% of the competition on iOS, no contest. You mentioned Zenonia 1 being ported to the DS? I liked the game, but it's barely even worth playing when compared to the standard of RPG's on the DS.

    Also, the reason iOS games are cheap is because the App Store charts are sorted by number of sales and not by total profits. This causes a 99c game that sells 5 copies to overtake a $10 game that sells 1 copy, therefore providing incentive to make 99c games and not $10 games.
     
  19. Stirolak26

    Stirolak26 Well-Known Member

    Sep 19, 2010
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    You really think the psp has good RPGs or variety of genres at all? The only 2d plat former on it I can think of is prinny and do you reallythink prinny is better than soosiz or pizza boy?
     
  20. spacecowgoesmoo

    spacecowgoesmoo Well-Known Member

    Sep 4, 2008
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    Composer / Level Designer @ Bovinedragon Software
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    Good RPG's: Ever heard of Square Enix? Or Namco?

    Is Prinny better than Soosiz: Of course, it's a big budget game by a talented studio compared to a indie game. They may be equally talented as developers, but their budgets separate the games in terms of quality. I mean, I'd disqualify Soosiz for it's soundtrack alone.

    Prinny is the only PSP platformer besides the Mega Man remakes that I can think of though, so I admit it does kind of lack variety. But tbh, I don't care if a platform has variety or not, so long as it has games I want to play.
     

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