thanks Biggie! I created this thread to know both sides and of the fence. If it is a valid marketing I wouldn't blew my top everytime I see a shiller
My sentiments exactly! We missed you! Shilling may be legal, but it can't possibly be ethical, when the dev pretends to be a consumer and posts fake reviews. Even more unethical than posting an iTunes review is posting on forums pretending to be a forumite. Personally that pisses me off more. Having a fake "testimonial" in an ad section as part of the ad is acceptable, as it is obviously an advertisement. Fake reviews or posts is another level altogether.
Ok sorry too, I'm trying to protect all identity here but it's all good if it can help with the topic.
Okay, I reread his original post, and think you're reading too much into it. Taking out the PM part for the moment, what's left is, "So I want the communities input in this one : Given the competitive market and the indies lack of budget for a marketing campaign is Shilling an acceptable marketing strategy?" It's a legitimate question. It's also a topic I see pop up from time to time in the publishing field as well. Many small presses (I'm equating them with indie devs because they're both kind of home brewed) feel the need to shill their work rather than rely on the quality of the product. Of course, big NY publishers do it as well as movie studios. No it's not illegal, but I think it is unethical, no matter who does it. And I understand why you're saying look at his past posts, I get it, but if anyone else had made the same post, would you have reacted the same way? I'm not being snarky when I ask that either (as I have a tendency to be), but am genuinely curious.
Tough question. Probably not. I'm tired of this kid's act, always bashing indie devs along with azreal. I'm not even saying that all indie games are good, I'm just telling him that they're not bad either. I guess it depends on how they phrase it. Was it necessary for him to say 'indie dev' instead of 'dev'? No, I don't think so.
This has become common in other venues. It's very annoying. Can't remember the last time I could trust a movie review. I can only hope this doesn't become the norm for apps.
And on that I agree with you. Well since it was an indie dev who PM'ed him, I can see why he would use the word. There are good and bad devs, no matter whether they're indie or have a large bankroll behind them. I'm speaking for me here, and not interpreting anything SG said; but the seeming vast majority of the apps on the store are by indie devs, so it's natural they're going to be the biggest target for some. I can remember a time when Microsoft was starting out and they were well liked (yes, it's true!); but once they got really big, they started getting criticism, some warranted, some not. It's the nature of the beast, and there will always be people who want to bash a certain target, because it's easy, not because it has merit. And yeah, welcome back Big Albie, I've missed your posts a lot.
Frankly I am getting tired of my skirmishes with you. I abstain to mix it up with you an azrael but I feel that he is correct let the big boys do the arguing for you this is my first topic and I want to be open minded about this, I want a cerebral valid discusion and not another flame war with you boy! Edit : I use indie dev cuz I used the lack of budget as one justification for shilling, obviously big devs don't share the same problem with budget right? I hope you try to act intelligent sometimes
It became the norm the moment they started selling apps I'm afraid. It started with the music reviews and crept into the apps. I mean shilling is nothing new, but I don't think it's ever been as prevalent as it has been. It makes me wonder, if the economy weren't so bad, and people had more disposable income, would there be as much shilling going on? I see it in a lot of industries, be it apps, books, music etc, everyone trying to get that sale, because dollars are scarce for a lot of people.
just get off my this thread, you call me a child and yet it was you who keeps on posting this childish pictures. Truth be told I'm getting tired and people are getting tired of us arguing here so if you want to hate me still just pm me ok.
I think shilling is not an acceptable marketing strategy at all--it is designed to intentionally deceive and mislead people. Potential customers read app store reviews and forum comments to garner opinions from their peers. Developers who shill are basically just taking a big ole' dump on the entire feedback process. That being said, I looooove pointing out shill developers, and do so whenever possible. Several months ago I did actually receive a "visitor message" from a dev who was not pleased about my comments in this forum when I pointed out his shilling. So--as much as I hate to admit it--I do believe SarcasticGamer's claim about receiving a PM...
What a shame. Smells like fear, so you may be on to something. I think so much competition can lead these things.
It sounds real to me. Its like a half apology/half "please just let it slide" Again though shilling is a shady strategy but what it really comes down to is how dumb is the customer who actually falls for it?
It's hard to avoid shilling altogether, but these people can't even shill properly. At least give us a semi detailed impression of the game instead of just an one liner telling us to "buy this game! It's the best game I've played on iPhone!'
exactly and right then and there something clicks in your head telling you thats fake. The ones who fall for it are idiots, especially at this stage in the appstore. So the dev looks like a shady weirdo for doing it, but the people who fall for it have to be pretty embarassed themselves for being tricked by something so obvious and fake.
Agreed. There's a lot of competition in every industry, and fewer customers-so people are doing everything can to make a sale. I'd like to think it will subside once the economy straightens out, but my cynical side says it's not going to change in the future.
