iPad vs. 20 year old PC?

Xcom is a bit of an unusual case right? I mean it was one of the most expensive IOS games at its initial price of $19.99 iirc wasn't it? How bout the Lego games? I think they were all $4.99 on ios release day weren't they?

Again though, I wasn't talking about ports specifically.

 

You mentioned XCOM as an example and even though it has less content I thought it was valid. LEGO Batman, LEGO Batman 2, LEGO Lord of the Rings, LEGO Harry Potter Years 1-4, LEGO Harry Potter Years 5-7 bundle of 5 for $19.99 9 months ago, the 2 Batman games with a number of other titles as a pay what you want Humble Bundle recently, and so on. I'm not 100% convinced the LEGO games are good examples though as the iOS version sound like they're diluted somewhat and are IAP supported.

I think ports are good if you're going to bring triple A pricing into things (proper ports, not just franchise names), compare Apple with Apples and all that otherwise it boils down to personal bias, misinformation and interpretation. There are plenty of indie ports on various platforms to see that on any given platform they'll be cheaper than another on any given day, just depends where you look. Any directly comparable AAA titles that share the same feature set you'll find similar.

 

Just wading in as a developer here. One who's trying to build a 3d RTS for IOS.

I think the main problem with mobile games and the (relative) lack of in-depth titles currently is a complex problem with multiple causes.

1. Economics, (taking the appstore as sample here). To create an in-depth title is expensive. It no longer requires just an artist and programmer, you need to test and QA an entire game, this is expensive and time-consuming. You need support and a whole set of back-end systems integrated in the game, tracking , monetization etc etc. Those also are expensive to build, especially for an unique game system. And finally you need to market your product, which is usually way more expensive than development. In the end a price-point of 0,89 cents, or even 8,99 doesn't make you money.. All those indie games we love that are in-depth and fantastic, a majority of those devs didn't make a living wage from their first few games (and in the end nowadays often make more money from Steam or console ports). Thats why even big name devs and publishers are scared of investing in mobile games.

2. Free 2 play is the only viable model now on mobile. Sadly f2p is where the money's at. It seems to generate a viable revenue stream. And that's why some of the most in-depth games are the f2p games.

But as a passionate developer I hate the idea of for instance taking a story-driven game and chopping it up and putting bits and pieces behind a paywall. Or having purchases drive my gameplay. So lets just say much of the public agrees and f2p doesn't work for many AAA titles.(EA just cancelled C&C f2pfor similar reasons).

3. Its still mostly about phones not tablets. Users don't think of their phone as a in-depth gaming platform, and lets be fair the toilet break analogy the angry bird developers talk about is true. But once people move to their couch, they Enjoy their Ipad and its a better place to reach out with in-depth gameplay.

But look at the upcoming Iphone/ipod thread on the forum, its several factors bussier than the ipad thread.. So as long as the iphone is where the majority of players are, thats where the developers will aim for. And its easy to see why Ipad is lagging, the Ipad needs to compete with PCs and Consoles, the iphone does not compete with other platforms (read , all smart-phones),smartphones are their own catagory.

4. the Appstore (and play store) are still not setup to be a gaming store. The appstore was a great and revolutionary way to get people off the web, and back onto actual software (yey for that, really so gratefull as a developer).

But compared to places where in-depth gaming thrives (PSN, Xbox live, Steam) it simply doesn't provide a good place to market games. If you'r into RTS games, wel good luck finding that game that suits you. there's a catagory, but that's basically a list.

Developers into developing in depth games, require an active community, word of mouth, places to showcase your work, reviews based on different criteria (graphics, gameplay etc etc). We basically need this because we want to develop games for a niche audience.. Apple and Google do not provide this, as they want products for the mass, not the nice. Its simply not their business (yet). (this is also why developers search out, indiedb, Touch arcade forums, TigSource etc etc, we need to market our games to the people that will buy them)

5. the cup of coffee problem, in a marketplace where your product is cheaper than a startbucks premium cup of coffee, why are there so few people willing to dish out that 99 cents? Well it could be that people know what coffee they like, and know it will be worth the money every time. With a game in the appstore you do not.. (you do with f2p , that's why it works)

This lack of insight on the consumers side, lead to the rise of free games, and HD versions etc etc. People need to taste the product. But what if there's an infinite buffet of free snacks, low and behold the user expects free snacks. not a catered lunch.

So there's many more reasons, but this is just some top of mind stuff. Personally there's no need to be negative based on this. The market is already turning, developers are using the appstores to hone their skills, create trustworty brands and long relationships with their audience. This will allow more and more in-depth games as the platform matures.

Competition is also ridiculously fierce, there are now so many game developers and Indies, you need real quality to stand out. And experienced developers with an interest in in-depth games, will find they can compete on quality and depth. With that X-com has set a new example, you can be succesfull with a premium game, but perhaps not on a single platform.

Personally I think you will see high level devs, turning back to gamer focused platforms such as consoles and steam to finance their core game development, and then offer a tuned and high end product to the mobile masses (at a higher price point). (we've already seen a slew of developers claiming they will no longer develop for IOS, so thats turning as well, but its only temporary).

The age of getting rich of fart apps and casual games might not be entirely over but it is slowly winding down. And I expect Apple is noticing and changes to the appstore will be incoming that will reflect a more mature marketplace for gamers. Especially now that Microsoft and Sony have become vulnerable. They're calling this the last console generation for a reason, it's all about platform not hardware. And I believe both Google and Apple know this and are poised to enter the fray for the hardcore gamer.(their platforms being much larger than Sony and microsofts combined)

Heck your next tv will probably come with a quad-core processor, a GPU and android play store (mine already does), what will we play on that, surely not only casual games..It's a matter of time..

 

Hi Papa Deuce,

Well the reason for lack of demo's is easy,, Apple does not allow, demos, prototypes, and any form of incomplete product will be immediatly rejected.

So no demos on Appstore, period..

sorry..

 

Sorry Muppet, but the "no demos" thing is not correct.
They just take a different form on the Appstore: Lite version, free with ads/IAP, first chapter for free and unlock full game via IAP, etc.
It is more effort for the developers, but I'd say when you cater to a niche market like Roleplayers or Strategists - and don't have a big name - these "demos" can help a lot with getting traction.

And from both the lousy quality I've seen in "complete" games, and the fact that you can release an early version as long as it is playable and expand it later, I don't know how stringent Apple really is with that policy.
Not that you should count on your incomplete app "slipping through the cracks".
But at least the "release barebone now, expand with community feedback" is something that I've seen working; worth to keep it in mind.

 

you'r correct on the lite versions and such, but there is a difference between those and a demo. Actually Apple states, that the terms demo, prototype and such are non-grata. This offcourse indeed doesn't exclude lite versions. In general we read it as meaning it should be a complete and finished product, if parts are locked as IAP or even a contect lock that seems fine.

But actually I don't see a lack of lite and free versions,, the appstore is filled with them..

 

Are you sure Apple still allow LITE versions of apps? Some devs aps are being rejected because they're Lite. Apple is stopping that.

 

hmm, I would not be suprised, if apple are reinforcing some rules more strictly. But had not heard of it until now..

 

did some research, they don't want you to submit a lite version with features disabled. So it must contain an IAP to upgrade to the full version. And you cannot disable features, and show something like " only available in the full version"

It's a bit tougher than they used to be, but no biggie

 

Thanks a lot for the info, Gov and Muppet.
Interesting, wonder why Apple would do that? Cannot be to keep the Appstore from getting flooded with crap...

 

Just want to comment on this part of your otherwise excellent post, and point out what I believe is the reason for this.

It's not that iPad gamers aren't that active here, or that there's not that many iPad gamers.
It's the fact that Universal games is posted in the iPhone/iPod thread.
I almost never play on my iPhone, but I don't post much in the iPad thread, as the games there is very often also posted in the iPhone thread.

Once in a while a developer makes separate iPhone and iPad versions of their games, but mostly they're universal, and that's a good thing IMO.

There's the occasional exclusive iPad games, and if they're good, there's loads of posts in their threads. Look at Baldur's Gate, KOTOR and World of Goo back when that was iPad exclusive.

 

Yeah, this forum is biased by having universal games in the iphone section.

I bet you if the universal games were in the ipad section, then it would look like everyone played ipad games.

There is a huge amount of ipad players here, it just is that the ipad forum is neglected.

 

I must admit most of my friends have an iphone but not an ipad. I've got an ipad but i use that mostly for reading/watching films and iCade games. Prefer gaming on my iphone

 

Amen to that. Once I get my iPad5 in a week or two, we'll be at 3. Not bad for a 3-people family, where one of them is still a toddler
Personally, I started with iOS gaming on an iPod2. And I would never go back to the smaller screen. Actually, I'd prefer to get an even bigger iPad, half again or even twice the current size.

 

Ha agreed,
I have a Mini and a nexus 7 tablet, and both see more gaming than my iphone. I think as a developer you should assume if your game is good on the go, focus on iphone, if its for on the couch then focus on ipad..


But thanks for clearing up the universal/iphone thread issue , Makes more sense now.

 

I thought I was just about the only person that felt that way here.
I personally neglect the iPad gaming forum. If there were more ipad exclusive releases, I'd probably spend more time looking in there.

Edit: in regards to making "AAA" or "Premium" games on the AppStore. I know everyone likes to point to X-Com as a point of change. I think that the Chaos Rings series and other Square products made the point, that they can sell, a long time ago. X-Com and OceanHorn have continued in that vein. There have been a ton of other games that are in depth and have done well as well. A developer taking the freemium route and saying it's the only way to make money seems like a cheap way out to me. When you release freemium you might fail miserably, you might hit the AppStore lottery. It's still a crapshoot.
Obviously a lot of decent games fail. A lot of crap does, in my opinion, too well. I think there is a market for quality games.
At the end of the day, the problem starts with Apple. There review process consists, largely, of making sure there are no hidden pictures of dicks or tits in an app. What they really need is some form of quality assurance like everyone else has. Sony, Microsoft, Steam. They all guarantee at least some level quality. Apple will have to follow one day. Hopefully.
I'll point out that 73 Games were released to the AppStore in the last 24 hours. 3 of those, although not my styles of games, may not be complete garbage.

 

This is all very well said.

I believe there are two main factors holding iOS games back. Price and interface. Perhaps more specifically App Store economy and touch screen controls. With the capabilities of the lastest devices, it's hard to think it isn't possible. But I believe it comes down to the developer having the money and courage to release a game of depth, and being creative in implementing a solid, tight interface. There are games that exist right now with a ton of depth.

However I believe the state the App Store is in right now breeds f2p skinner boxes. You know, the games that have you press icons over and over, rewarding you with cookies here and there to let you know what a good job you've done pressing said icons. These cookies are sometimes disguised as leveling up or handing over a small amount of rare currency to lead you along. No skill or depth, but the mass market who don't normally play games love it! So that means these games are where the money is which breeds more and more of these games and less of the premium priced games.

If people who appreciates good game play on a PC or console would take the mobile platform more seriously, perhaps then we would have enough numbers/purchasing power to make premium games viable. Of course all of this is just my opinion and current observations.

I am officially hugely jealous! I don't have an iPad...yet, but there are so many games with a ton of depth exclusively on the iPad. I guess it depends on what your taste is but for me I wish to play Shadowrun Returns, Space Hulk, Drive on Moscow, Eclipse, Battle Academy, Small World, Baldur's Gate, and bunches of others. Aaaah yep. The day I get a lovely iPad will be a good day indeed!