indie devs have a chance?

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by howtocode, Jun 3, 2009.

  1. howtocode

    howtocode Member

    Feb 20, 2009
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    Hi,

    i wonder if indie developers can compete against the big publishers like gameloft or ngmoco. Look at the games gameloft have announced at E3. Omg they are damned polished. What do you think? Can indie developers compete against this big titles? Furthermore there are coming more and more good games out.
     
  2. Little White Bear Studios

    Little White Bear Studios Well-Known Member
    Patreon Silver

    Aug 27, 2008
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    Yes, indie devs can compete. They just need to be smart about it, and capitalize on what they can do that the big guys can't: Service, agility, and value, with low development costs.
     
  3. Eric5h5

    Eric5h5 Well-Known Member

    Take a look at the top 10 (and the top 100), and you see your question answered pretty definitively.

    --Eric
     
  4. M of IMAK

    M of IMAK Well-Known Member

    May 26, 2009
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    iPhone App Developer
    Austin, TX
    If you mean will we indie devs ever be able to spend as much time and money developing and marketing our apps as the big guys, then I would say "maybe", but at that point we won't be considered an indie dev anymore. :D

    I think the better question is can the large companies make enough money in the app store to continue to support their development efforts. The app store today is built to favor the most indie of the indie devs. How long it stays that way is anyone's guess.
     
  5. Anders

    Anders Well-Known Member

    Feb 3, 2009
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    Co-owner and CTO at Color Monkey
    Sweden
    We indies can compete by innovation. Lead by innovation instead of follow others. Bigger companies are usually held back by old games they "need" to port, ineffective organizations and probably because they don't let devs take time off their day-to-day projects to try their own ideas.
     
  6. Indies can compete in terms of profit, if they are able to keep their development costs down.
     
  7. deadweight

    deadweight Well-Known Member

    At the rate apps are being released these days? I doubt anyone will be making much of a profit a year from. The market is huge, but is quickly reaching a saturation point. There's only so much free-time people have to spend on their devices, and once they are loaded up with a few pages of games, they will be much more descriminating in their future purchases.

    Indie devs have the advantage of focusing their resources on quick launches, but the big houses see that the only way to set themselves apart from the swamp of apps out there is to invest heavily in quality. In the end quality is what will win people over, so it doesn't look great for inde devs, imo.
     
  8. M of IMAK

    M of IMAK Well-Known Member

    May 26, 2009
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    iPhone App Developer
    Austin, TX
    I agree with you except that I don't equate indie devs with low quality. So, I would say that the subset of developers who focus on quality apps will win, and those who focus on quantity rather than quality will eventually have the odds stacked against them.
     
  9. deadweight

    deadweight Well-Known Member


    :D Heh, didn't mean it that way. I'd like to think our apps are quality apps as well. But you have to admit that the big houses will always be able to devote more resources to develop "higher-end" applications than we can. I absolutely could devote half a year to an app and produce something on par with any of the larger devs. But the risk is too great.

    So to your point, yes the more time spent on an app the greater it's chance for success from an indie stanpoint. But I think the overall risk/reward for that strategy may even see quality indie devs struggling.

    Sort of depressing now that I think about it. I think I need a drink.
     
  10. Frand

    Frand Well-Known Member

    Zen Bound focused on polish and controls and has sold >100k copies at $5 in exchange for roughly ten man months of work.

    Is it repeatable? Most likely not. Each game is unique and the returns can vary from very good to disastrous. But on average, I do believe there's profitable business to be made on the iPhone with quality releases.

    If you strike gold (here's looking at Touchgrind, Illusion Labs...) it does afford the luxury of not having to compromise with quality on the next releases.

    Yes, indies can compete, and being a jaded old hermit, I have to say many of the releases from the large publishers do not impress me. Even games with major brands attached suffer from half-assed art direction, stuttering frame rates and tacked-on controls. For the audience who appreciates and recognizes quality, indies can compete very well.
     
  11. JustinFic

    JustinFic Well-Known Member

    May 20, 2009
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    Game Designer / Programmer
    Las Vegas, NV
    Of course. And this is more true on the App Store than any other platform I've developed for. Sure there are some really impressive games coming out of the big guys, but there will always be that really addictive flash game port that shoots to the top of the list and just stays there. And as mentioned, the big guys have to move WAY more units to make money off of their behemoth games. A game that hovers at #50-60 on the top app list might be a flop for the big guys but for an indie, that might totally fund the next project. The trick is to keep the scope (and development costs) of your game down, and take advantage of the fact that indie developers are smaller and way more agile.

    And regarding quality, I've seen plenty of two-person teams (programmer/artist) make some really awesome stuff. Aaron and Adam of Strange Flavour immediately come to mind.
     
  12. khangtoh

    khangtoh Well-Known Member

    May 31, 2009
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    Co-Founder/IPhone Dev @ LeftRight Studios
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Although I want to agree with you on the fact that small indie developers can make a break by coming up with good innovative and unique game ideas, but I'm also not going to deny that small indie developers don't get that much of the attention from bloggers, media etc.

    My experiences so far is telling me so and I hope to be proven wrong.
     
  13. Vester

    Vester Well-Known Member

    indie devs can compete in the current app market, from my experience they bring very original app like eliss or car jack streets, big names dont always bring the best games. Many big name companies port games (like the sims and NFS) even though they get sales, the idea may seem worn out
     
  14. MikaMobile

    MikaMobile Well-Known Member

    Feb 14, 2009
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    Big publishers/developers are of course able to produce games with a lot more content, but are then forced to charge more as a result of their increased overhead (large teams, marketing budgets, etc.). Where small teams and individuals can shine is in both keeping costs down, as well as making games/apps that do not rely on lots of content. "More" does not necessarily mean "better", but all you can really buy with a large budget is volume. A big budget might buy you a game with 100 unique levels and 40 different enemies, but the controls and moment-to-moment feel of the game is what makes it unique and appealing (or dull and uninteresting) - and that's something that is relatively easy to achieve if you focus on it. It's less about time, and more about just having good taste.

    I'm a firm believer that a game is either fun or not long before you've added all of the bells and whistles, and that indy developers can make things that are memorable and interesting without spending lots and lots of money and time.
     
  15. JustinFic

    JustinFic Well-Known Member

    May 20, 2009
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    Game Designer / Programmer
    Las Vegas, NV
    No, you're right. It's all about reputation. EA has already proved itself a thousand times over, which is why when EA makes an iPhone game, it's news. Doesn't matter what it is. Even if it's total crap, it's still news.

    The indie needs to prove him/herself. The indie has to make a great game and get it seen. That's where the self promotion comes in. New indies have to start out as total unknowns, and become known with limited budgets. If you continually create awesome games that people love, then you will build up a reputation and that will start getting you much more attention from blogs and media.
     
  16. PixelthisMike

    PixelthisMike Well-Known Member

    Hear hear, well said :)
     
  17. PixelthisMike

    PixelthisMike Well-Known Member

    Maybe it's not strictly repeatable but the exposure and fan base you got from Zen Bound now makes all of your subsequent games more likely to succeed and you'll just keep building up that reputation. You're in a happy place! :)
     
  18. khangtoh

    khangtoh Well-Known Member

    May 31, 2009
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    Co-Founder/IPhone Dev @ LeftRight Studios
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Absolutely, indie developers do have to prove that they're worthy of mention and touchArcade has been doing good to help small unknown indie developers untill the IPhone Launch Party came along.

    Not that I'm pissed or anything but I RSVP'd for the party and offer to demo our games and heard nothing. Looking at the guest list, I just feel that it's a party for the whose who app developers and unknown devs like us are just getting slam in the face.

    Not that that is anything wrong but just a little discouraging.
     
  19. Hippieman

    Hippieman Well-Known Member

    Nov 6, 2008
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    Senior Producer, Designer
    San Francisco
    You have to consider the goal of the Launch party. They want to make this an event, a "I must go to this event" which means bringing in what they consider the big guns.

    I'm not saying at all your game is bad, but could you imagine if someone got up there on stage and had something just utterly embarrassing to show off? Like a badly done clipart hackjob that barely works?

    I sure hope you still attend the party. I'd love to see what you have cooking.
     
  20. PixelthisMike

    PixelthisMike Well-Known Member

    It would be quite good to stagger the big guns with a smaller lesser known developer thus still drawing the crowds and then giving the small guy exposure to that crowd. I would imagine that the organiser could screen applicants prior to the event to make sure their app was up to scratch :)
     

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