Impulse GP and iOS Piracy

Read back.
I never said it would stop piracy.
Reducing and stopping are two different things.
I support reducing.
As should you and any other legitimate gamer.
And Apple introducing Rootless or a form of it will absolutely have a reduction effect.

And while jailbreaking has legitimate uses, it's no red herring as it is quite simply the primary method by which the vast majority of the public who do pirate apps, pirate those apps.
In excess of 95% of currently pirated apps on current or recent iOS are pirated on jail broken devices.
That doesn't seem like a red herring to me.

And it'll take a bit more than a couple of weeks to find an alternate method to pirate because as you said yourself it is a closed system, it won't be as easy as you seem to think.
If it was, there would already be more prominent methods of doing it.
And while a few other methods did appear in relatively recent times, the door was closed on those a lot quicker than the door is closing on jailbreaking.

Piracy has always been an issue but crime of all forms have always been an issue. Violence too. Racism, xenophobia, theft, bigotry. All far worse things granted but all have been around for a long time too.
That's no excuse to roll over and just accept it though.

Fighting piracy may be only a little thing in the big scheme of things but it has enough of an impact on developers and their livelihoods to actually impact their quality of life. So no, I don't accept it, I'm not rolling and going "ah, sher there's always been piracy, what can ya do".
That's only a bullshit cop out and an excuse to turn a blind eye to it and ignore the impact it has on the independent developers that this place supports and its members proclaim themselves to be supporting.

So no I don't accept and I don't care what it takes to reduce it as long as the battle to fight it keeps going on.
Simple as that.
Sorry if that causes you some discomfort with your backups but I'd rather see you have some backup discomfort than small developers go out of business because a bunch of lazy asshats are jailbreaking and pirating their hard work.

 

I'll keep it simpler then. I seriously doubt stopping jailbreaking will do more than be a hiccup to pirates, while it will very much close something off that has legitimate uses.

How do we reduce piracy? I'm not sure. The number of methods that has been attempted over the decades is dizzying. Nothing appears to slow it down.

What almost put PC gaming into an unrecoverable nosedive was a combination of piracy and an industry that became obsessed with stopping it. Unfortunately, everything proposed and attempted did little, if anything, to stop piracy while seriously inconveniencing paying customers.

While I agree that it won't be easy to find a way to pirate without jailbreaking it will be fast. Pirates spend a lot of time and some of them take quite a bit of pride in cracking these nuts. I don't know why it is such an obsession to them but I am very familiar with the community. Piracy has been a big concern of mine because I am also in the software industry and very much like getting paid. While I may not currently be at a company that sells software for its living the majority of my career has been in selling software and professional services around it. As such, I am very sympathetic to developers but I am also realistic and very informed as to what lengths these bastards will go to.

I am not trying to be contrary or protect the sanctity of jailbreaking. The reality is everytime something like that is identified and the attempt is made to eliminate it, the pirates just keep on going while legitimate users get screwed. I'm tired of it. While iOS may be a closed system it is not without its flaws and it does have an API. Vulnerabilities are found all the time and sometimes flaws are discovered that no one would expect. The hilarious part is when companies try to hide those flaws, which is security through obscurity. Hackers and pirates already know about the flaws, you can only hide them from the general public.

You think 2 weeks is too short, I was being generous. I think it will take less time than that but decided to double my estimate since iOS is a closed system.

Stopping jailbreaking will not slow them down. It's an easy target and something to throw some ire at, but it's a symptom and not the disease.

I also favor anything that reduces piracy, but it needs to be a real solution and not another "screw the customers while pirates still get away with it" feel good do nothing solution.

What we're in danger of doing is focusing too much on piracy and not enough on marketing. While piracy is frustrating, the real focus is "How do we attract more paying customers". Pirates are not customers and stopping them will not increase sales. They've already made it clear they want the game but not enough to bother paying for it.

 

This thread got derailed really fast.

Fact: Piracy doesn't require jailbreaking.
Fact: At least one jailbreaker (myself) has never pirated an iOS app in his life. Presumably there are more.
Opinion: Piracy has nothing to do with why Impulse GP failed to chart. The complete, total lack of promotion by the developers has a lot more to do with it.
Opinion: Updating this game to be free-to-play won't help. Releasing an update and / or a new free version and actually letting members of the press know about that update probably would.

 

I'm aware of one other unjailbroken option/exploit that I'm not exactly going to publicise unnecessarily by mentioning now am I.
It's also worth noting that those other options only work temporarily and are very unstable.
Frequently "installed" apps simply stop working and crash after a few days according to the forums and social media associated with those non jail broken options which inevitably leads people back to the old fashioned way of jailbreaking to fulfil their piracy needs.

And if as you say "we're still watching" (the implication you're trying to make with that, well, it doesn't exactly encourage discourse on what I consider to be a very important topic), you probably have been watching and seen that I clearly stated that not all jail breakers are pirates.
You did in fact quote one line where I said the same.

That's not the same as believing that the absolute vast majority of those that do pirate use jailbreaking as their primary method. To deny that is simply sticking ones head in the sand and saying no there's no problem when there clearly is.
I'm sure we all are aware of the piracy rates of Monument Valley (along with the piracy numbers of this game at this stage). One can't really deny that there is a problem in the face of the facts certain developers share.
Many more examples can be found with a simple Google search.

And no, you are incorrect in you're statement that I have vehement hate of jail breakers.
I don't.
I wouldn't care less about jailbreaking if it didn't include one particular option, the means to pirate.

It amuses me that people get more annoyed about drm than they do about piracy itself when in fact piracy is the root cause of the problem in the first place.
It amuses me when people support jailbreaking because it gives them freedom and relieves minor discomforts yet claim to support developers at the same time even though jailbreaking is still the primary option used for piracy (that certain other option will be closed down soon enough) which I'd imagine causes developers a lot more discomfort.

My vehement hate is not for jailbreakers, it's for jail breakers who pirate and pirates irrelevant of the method they use.
I can see the distinction between the two.
But I can also see the correlation between the two.

And on that, I will follow your lead and bow out on this thread also.
I didn't realise supporting developers and opposing methods that pirates are openly known to use would cause so much discomfort that ye would need to "still be watching".

 

The reason why I find DRM so annoying is because it doesn't stop a thing.

I have had games that would not install or would not work properly because of some stupid DRM scheme. In the meantime I could easily find pirates who were happily playing the same game just fine while I paid money for something that didn't work. What was the difference? They removed the DRM.

This isn't always the case but it's annoying.

In some cases DRM is turnkey and essentially invisible to the end user. Whether or not it stops piracy is debatable but my experience would suggest probably not. However, as long as it doesn't stop me from using products I paid for I don't care. However, most DRM stops at best the most casual of piracy and sometimes prevents fair use.

See, being against DRM is not pro-piracy by any means, but DRM doesn't stop piracy.

As someone else said, what hurts Impulse GP wasn't piracy, that is a depressing curiosity. The problem is a marketing issue.

As long as piracy is risk free it will continue to be a problem in the software industry. It's a losing battle, but not one that can be ignored completely because rampant theft should not go unchecked. At the same time, it would be a shame to see the mobile market go down the same losing path that the PC games industry went down not that many years ago. It was a huge distraction where companies basically accused their customers of being little more than untrustworthy criminals. Many of us took note and voted with our wallets.

 

I know I said I was done with the thread but I felt it important to give you a big thanks for sharing the information.

I agree and understood that ye knew about the marketing element that contributed to your numbers, you were very clear on that from the first post

I also 100% agree that the actual piracy numbers themselves are a very important part of the overall picture and I greatly appreciate that ye were willing to publicly share those numbers because I do believe that they make a very important point that people need to understand or at least get some degree of insight on.

Of course with the sales numbers the percentages are skewed to some degree but it still doesn't change that there was still enough of awareness of the game for it to be pirated to the numbers it was.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if they were actual sales rather than theft?

Either way, thanks very much for sharing the info with us.
I hope some people learnt something from it and I wish ye the best in the future.

 

That's for sharing this (very discouraging) data. I don't steal games, but I usually don't buy premium games either.

I'm glad I bought yours. Maybe I should buy more in the future.

 

@OP, thanks from me as well for sharing your story! Going through some blogs and podcasts, some devs have been steering clear of games, and more or less just been sticking with non-gaming apps for their business model. Even if piracy isn't the issue, it's more so that games are a far too flooded market. They'll make apps that are much more difficult to implement on their own.

 

I may be shunned or flamed for what i am about to say but i will say it as it is in your interest.
I have pirated many, many games. I will not state how or using what, as it may encourage/educate others to do the same. The only fool proof way i have encountered to make sure you get paid for your work is using servers. I don't understand how or the cost involed but making your game free to try with a full game IAP unlock, which is verified on your side, with an account check on login, seems to be the only way to prevent piracy.
If your game is captivating enough, even pirates will pay for quality games (as i have in the past).
The current problem with the app store is that its bombarded with so many trash games that some consumers dont trust even paying 79p for a game that they haven't tried, due to the overall lack of quality in general.
It's a sad situation where everyone wants to make money, only some make an effort to make a product worth money, where some refuse to blind pay due to the previous, yet everyone wants cool new games to entertain them.
I do hope you succeed along with other quality developers. Yours sincerely, The other side of the fence.

 

Yep,I agree - make free with full unlock if your game is brand new and you have not even advertised it on forums or posted about it on forums or certain sites.

 

I'll admit to be conflicted while reading your post.
I wanted to see you shunned and flamed.
Yet I can't deny but I appreciate the honesty.
And to be fair, a discussion needs all sides so I've no choice but to thank you for that.

On a key point I always believed to be true myself, you say pirates will still pay for quality.
I take some consolation from that because I always thought if quality was there, even pirates would pay if the option to pirate was not available.

It's an interesting view of the other side.

While I simply cannot agree with piracy and maintain my opinion on it, I appreciate the contribution and while my "vehement hatred" of piracy has been well established, you won't get any flaming or shunning from me because I appreciate the stand up and honesty as it'll contribute to the conversation from the other side.

So cheers. And please pirate less.
Or at least pay for the quality stuff✌

Thanks for being honest and upfront though and offering something useful to the discussion.

 

So i cant figure your posts. You basically call people who jailbreak thieves, even the many posts who explicitly state that is not why they jailbreak, and someone who admits to thievery you appreciate their honesty and essentially leave a pretty friendly post. While it may be enlightening to hear " from the other side", it seems that we should be hearing from them from inside a jail cell, or after they have paid a huge fine rather than giving them kudos for being honest. People are expected to be honest, it shouldnt be a special occasion.

 

That was supposed to be what Google Play or Google was going to do... make games require checking in online to ensure that you have a legit copy. Don't know if they ever implemented this, and just how effective it'll be, or was?

Either way, that makes me sad. I really enjoy playing games that do NOT require an internet connection (deep inside a building, underground while waiting for a metro, in an airplane, etc.). If we lose the ability to do that, then those without cellular (e.g. IpT, and certain Ipads) will be out of luck.

This has been the case that App developers have been complaining about to Apple.
Apple needs to let developers charge for upgrades. Users expect upgrades to be for free, but many will say that's bs and an unreasonable expectation. Also, this encourages developers to make as many cheap/free apps as possible (to maximize their profits), while not bothering with updates due to it all.

 

Upgrade or update?

Sorry, updates should be free. If we're talking performance improvements, bug fixes, etc. there are very few software vendors that get away with charging extra.

New content should be A-OK to charge for though and the outrage that users have when a developer releases a content pack is entirely misplaced. It's not part of standard maintenance, it truly is additional features, and can be quite expensive to develop.

Granted, maintenance is expensive to but also the price of doing business.

 

If you'd read them all fully and properly, it'd be pretty easy to understand.
I never said all jail breakers are thieves despite your interpretation.
I said all jail breakers who jailbreak to pirate are thieves and the majority jail break in order to pirate.
So the majority, not all, and only those with the intent to pirate.
Which would be the majority, there just happens to plenty of decent honest people who jailbreak and don't.
There's a difference. Which I made pretty clear quite awhile ago now. You just chose to perceive it your own way.

And I was polite to the other guy, despite fundamentally disagreeing and disaproving of his activity, because he offered the other side to the equation that I would not understand and conceded that even pirates would pay if the quality is right which is the opposite to what those who say we should accept piracy as they'd never pay, yet it turns out some actually would.
Which leads me to the conclusion that piracy actually is a lost sale and we shouldn't accept it.

If people were honest, we'd be living in a very different world irrelevant of your expectation of honesty which is a bit naive to be honest.

 

If my expectation of honesty is naive, i feel very sorry for you and the world you live. Expecting people to be fundamentally dishonest is a sad way to look at people. maybe i am just too old as i grew up in very different society then is now present. But, i still have those values, and expect them of others. It is not too often i am disapointed.

 

I like the way you skipped over the fundamentals of my post and decided to focus on the throwaway comment at the end that has you believing you were right in the first place.
Clever.
A bit misguided and obvious but I'll give you a clever piece of misdirection on it though.
No pint in tackling a point that you were blatantly proven wrong on I suppose.

 

I meant upgrade. No arguments here that updating an app for bug fixes should cost money. However, given how things are now, the devs only choice to "upgrade" is to come out with App_name 2 v1.0, and either abandon its predecessor, or divide their time between the two. There was a reason they couldn't just release v2 of App_name, but can't recall what that was about. And yeah, too many users expect new content for free, whether if it's in the form of an IAP, or actual upgrade/"update?"

Maintenance is expensive, but I'm sure when a software company/shop makes a bid on a software project, their bid does indeed factor in the cost of maintenance mode. Not just iOS projects, but with Android, Windows, and web too. Given how things are on the iOS AppStore, it's a race to the bottom...

I doubt selling a game for $1 lets you cover that expense. Before the free-to-play model, make a cheap app as quickly as possible, then move on to the next one. No time for maintenance. One podcast mentioned the 3 ways iOS devs can have "sustainable pricing" these days is either...
1) premium pricing.
And I'm not even talking about how Impulse GP priced theirs... they were talking about whatever you think is enough... triple that amount

2) free-to-play with IAP
Most won't spend money, but perhaps you can get a few "whales" to keep it afloat.

There was a 'case study' on an Ipad game... "Galaxy Basketball"? I don't remember, except that the theme is you have to measure, and throw a basketball from one side of the screen to the other, and add various "physics modifiers" that can change the trajectory of the ball, teleport it, etc. And there's a galaxy backdrop. 1st issue was they made too much of the game free. 2nd was they only had 500K downloads. For a f2p model, you're shooting for 4 million downloads. Plants Vs. Zombies 2 has 100 mil for comparisons sake, and I'd imagine AAA titles and such are around that ballpark.

3) subscription model
Charge yearly or monthly. Monthly is more flexible for the consumer in terms of opting out sooner, but with yearly, they deal with less # of transactions.