iDevice a hardcore gaming machine.

Discussion in 'General Game Discussion and Questions' started by paulm12, Oct 14, 2010.

  1. paulm12

    paulm12 Well-Known Member

    Sep 13, 2009
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    Alright, as many already know, the 3DS is coming out in March (I believe), and although the iDevices and the 3DS are geared towards different audiences, I believe there will still be a competition between Nintendo and Apple. Thinking what the iDevices have done in the past in a gaming perspective to make it an even more well-rounded "game console", what could possibly be done (in your opinion) to further hardcorize the iDevices?

    Personally, if Apple created their own case with 2 bumper buttons (1 on either side) on the back, I believe that it could really improve the gaming variety on the iDevices. (my photoshop thing is running really slow, will post picture in a bit) The reason I believe Apple should make it is the very same reason that any iDevice case is different from the other; no developers that I know of are going to tailer to a third-party companies case. If Apple certifies it and the case itself plugs into the charging dock port, like the extended battery cases, developers would catch on and controls for games like MC2: BP would be 3X better. (Imagine the swipe and v-pad controls with bumper buttons like COD to aim and shoot).

    Many believe and will argue that Apple's device is supposed to be a no-button experience, but there are many out there (like myself) who think that some games made for the iDevices were made for some extra physical buttons, especially ports of older games. To me it is frustrating trying to play a game with two fingers intended for six. I'm not saying all should use this, far from it, but the option of having an extra set of buttons will widen the capabilities of the iPhone and iPod Touch even more.
     
  2. Tictactouch

    Tictactouch Member

    Oct 14, 2010
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    i complete agree, i would love a psp go style ipod touch.... although better made
     
  3. The prez 12521

    The prez 12521 Well-Known Member

    Aug 17, 2009
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    nahh, if Apple wanted to make it in the games market primarily they could, would, and will. The iphone/ipad/ipod CAN game and such, but aren't built for it. They could (i'm sure they already are) build a gaming device primarily...just cuz it can game, doesnt mean it was built for it. And if their are all these different cases floating around, it'll cost so much more to buy a game...like the gameloft case, $20 + $6(per game), the Chillingo Case....etc...

    Get it? probably not, oh well :p
     
  4. migo

    migo Active Member

    Apr 29, 2009
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    The strength of iOS as a gaming platform is that it comes in the iPhone. People need phones, they don't need a game system, and they have limited pockets, with sometimes the second pocket being used for a wallet or keys. Now I have a cell phone and I carry the iPod touch (or occasionally NGP) as a dedicated gaming system, so it's certainly an option, but there are some people who wouldn't use it at all if it were dedicated only.

    The other strength of the platform is consistent hardware design. iPhone, 3G and 3GS all have very similar designs on a hardware level and the same goes for iPod touch 1g-3g. The resolution is the same, as is the screen size (with iPhone/iPod touch 4 having 4 pixels for each 1 of previous generations), making it easy on devs. Android is suffering from fragmentation even though it largely uses just touch screen, but having some devices support multi touch and others not, and some with hard keyboards and others not makes it difficult on devs. Having either 480x320 or 960x640 resolution makes it very easy for devs to develop games. Having only the touch screen and tilt controls also makes it easy - they don't have to think about hardware being available in one device but not the other (except of course when it comes to revisions each year).

    Having a variation with hard buttons would entirely undermine this. It's of course an opportunity for Sony with the PSP2 to come in with touch screen, tilt controls and physical controls to cover everything, but for Apple to try the same thing would actually screw things up.
     
  5. Zevious Zoquis

    Zevious Zoquis Well-Known Member

    Sep 20, 2010
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    Yep, the thing that makes the Iphone an ideal portable gaming device is the fact that its a phone too. Most (working) people are not going to carry a DS around with them throughout the day. It just isn't convenient - especially when you have to have the phone with you anyway. In the past, the cell phones couldn't hold a candle to a dedicated gaming device for gameplay but thats changed with the Iphone - its a very capable game machine. The touch controls may be an issue for some but the fact is that the best games on the Iphone are likely to be those that are specifically built for the interface and that gives the device even more appeal imho becuase it allows for some new creativity as people come up with new ways to use its capabilities...
     
  6. ImNoSuperMan

    ImNoSuperMan Well-Known Member

    Jun 28, 2009
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    Apple has already filed for gaming accessories patents, so it's not completely impossible. If the accessory is made by apple then it'll be supported by most of the games (atleast all the new games will support it as optional controls scheme for sure). Only problem is Steve's philosophy of keeping it simple. He might never allow such a thing by apple and anything created by a third party will suffer from limited support.

    As far as these accessories improving the actual gameplay experience, I dont really think that will be too much. But it'll definitely make iDevices a LOT more attractive to gamers who still dismiss iDevices as non-console only coz it has no hardware controls.
     
  7. dumaz1000

    dumaz1000 Well-Known Member

    Jun 5, 2010
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    The iDevice is not and will never be a hardcore gaming machine because iDevice owners are too spoiled, stubborn, delusional, unreasonable, bratty, and self-entitled to ever submit to the type of pricing structure that it would require to support hardcore gaming. A pricing average of .99c-4.99, with a ceiling of 9.99, isn't going to come anywhere near cutting it.

    You get what you pay for. The iDevice will always be a magnet for casual gaming. Cut the Rope, Pocket God, Angry Birds. Need I say more?
     
  8. sammysin

    sammysin Well-Known Member

    Feb 23, 2010
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    Rumour has it the left over bra bits from generations gone by are going to be used to conjure up a magical iDevice accessory pod.
     
  9. Zevious Zoquis

    Zevious Zoquis Well-Known Member

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    #9 Zevious Zoquis, Oct 14, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2010
    nope. no need to say anything more. Those are great examples of great games for a portable gaming device. Just what I want on my phone to fill a few minutes throughout the day. And they are just as "hardcore" as all the big number crunching excell spreadsheets (aka "rpgs") you'd care to name...
     
  10. Tmonine

    Tmonine Well-Known Member

    Aug 27, 2009
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    I think youre stereotyping a bit too much there. And chaos rings costs more than $9.99.

    And youre wrong about not cutting it. Cut the rope gets so near to cutting it that it actually does cut it (the rope, that is)
     
  11. Osmiral

    Osmiral Well-Known Member

    Nov 19, 2009
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    I don't see what people think is so great about buttons, I mean games like prince of persia: warrior within works amazing on the iphone, as does street fighter 4. Would someone care to explain what hardcore games are if not those, or why hard buttons are good?
     
  12. Tmonine

    Tmonine Well-Known Member

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    I have played a few emulators off cydia using both a wiimote and the touchscreen and using the physical buttons is by far the better of the two, so much so that i would be willing to pay a premium price for a physical ios controller if enough games integrated with it.
     
  13. Stirolak26

    Stirolak26 Well-Known Member

    Sep 19, 2010
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    What I don't get is why more publishers don't price their games higher if apple allows it?
     
  14. doodlejumper

    doodlejumper Well-Known Member

    Jan 27, 2010
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    The thing that keeps Apple different is it's accelerometer and touch screen. If it was buttons and such from the start, it'd just be a another device. But just because it doesn't have the buttons doesn't mean it's not hardcore. Look at Espadluga II and the Commodore 64. It takes a good device to make devs want to port those to it. If it weren't for the iPhone, we couldn't all enjoy the retro goodness.
     
  15. dumaz1000

    dumaz1000 Well-Known Member

    Jun 5, 2010
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    #15 dumaz1000, Oct 14, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2010
    This is a great example of what the iDevice is. These are extremely casual .99c games that flourish for extended periods of times, sometimes months on end, while higher-end, more premium titles often times fade away in a week. That's exactly my point. The iDevice is a casual gaming machine and always will be. It is not hardcore. Never will it be hardcore. Hardcore gamers understand this and will move onto the 3DS when the are afforded the chance, if hardcore gaming is really what they are after.

    And you have absolutely no idea what a hardcore game is if you would think even for a nanosecond of classifying any of these sorts of games as hardcore. Call of Duty and Gears of War, that's hardcore. Angry Birds? Nowhere even close to hardcore. You could not get further away from hardcore gaming then Angry Birds and Cut the Rope if you tried. It's not even possible.
     
  16. dumaz1000

    dumaz1000 Well-Known Member

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    #16 dumaz1000, Oct 14, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2010
    Chaos Rings is one app. One app out of literally hundreds of thousands of apps. And if I am stereotyping, so are almost every other successful, established multi-console dev out there, which is why truly premium, AAA, franchise titles are rarely found on the appstore. Even when you do find them, on rare occassion, they are almost never fully featured and fully developed. Outside of EA (the one true exception to this norm), franchise titles from console developers are either stripped down, with tons of content that you would otherwise expect missing from the package, or completely non-existant.

    Trust me on this. Epic believes that if they brought a Gears Of War to the iDevice using the Unreal Engine, that they should be able to charge a console-quality price for that console-quality game. Epic also has no reason to have any faith that a game selling for 29.99 or 39.99 would somehow overcome this race to the bottom culture that continues to permanate the appstore marketplace.

    I can just see a full-fledged Gears of War hitting the appstore, selling for 29.99, and within a few seconds a bunch of idiots showing up here saying "I'll wait for it to drop to .99c."

    That ain't ever gonna happen. The appstore is the home of cheapness and frugality and everyone knows it. Most of all, the developers themselves know it. Wear it. Embrace it. Denial of this fact will only make things worse.

    And Cut the Rope doesn't cut it as a hardcore game. Nor does it cut it when it comes to increasing confidence in developers in the hardcore potential of the iDevice. A console dev sees a game like that flourishing with a .99c pricetag and they think to themselves "there is no way I'm releasing any of my premium titles onto the appstore. Unless I'm willing to sell IP games for .99c, which I'm not, then it's best that I just ignore the iDevice entirely and develop my games for some other platform instead."
     
  17. Zevious Zoquis

    Zevious Zoquis Well-Known Member

    Sep 20, 2010
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    Oh I disagree. I know what you think are hardcore games but I think you're wrong. In fact, I'd suggest that FPS might just be the least hardcore of all videogames. Anyone I've known who was a devoted FPS guy was a jock basically. FPS games was all they were interested in - in fact they don't even like videogames really. They'll play COD, but show them a Mario game and watch how fast they turn away. THey aren't hardcore gamers, they are hardcore firstperson-shooterers ( :) )

    Games like Angry Birds, Fruit Ninja, Flight Control - these sorts of games represent the very foundation of videogaming. They are direct descendants of Pac-Man, Space Invaders, Tetris...etc. Afaic, if you can't appreciate games like those, you aren't a "hardcore" gamer. To me, a hardcore gamer is someone who appreciates the history of the hobby, who is open to all sorts of different types of games and who can appreciate the elegance of design, the simplicity combined with subtle depth and replayability of the so called "casual" games as well as the sense assualt of a COD or Gears of War...

    Really though, I hate the whole hardcore/casual distinction. It seems to me the only people who care about that shite are people who really sorta resent the fact that they enjoy videogames at all and need to feel like they are somehow seperate from the "casual hordes" with their little cartoon games in order to validate their own enjoyment...
     
  18. MidianGTX

    MidianGTX Well-Known Member

    Jun 16, 2009
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    #18 MidianGTX, Oct 14, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2010
    Games made for iDevices that were made for extra buttons were made for the wrong platform.

    Disagree on Angry Birds, Fruit Ninja and Flight Control I could agree on, high score bustin' and all that. Part of Angry Birds' popularity is down to the fact it's casual enough for anyone to play.
     
  19. Zevious Zoquis

    Zevious Zoquis Well-Known Member

    Sep 20, 2010
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    the same can be said about Fruit Ninja and FC can't it? Yeah, the high score chase is a distinction, but AB still has much the same appeal as the classic arcade type games for me...
     
  20. EMTKiNG

    EMTKiNG Well-Known Member

    Apr 7, 2010
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    It's not the device that's hardcore its the gamer!!
     

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