Hero Academy Tourney Round 3

If my "attitude" offends you it's because of your posture towards only making the minimum effort of 1 move a day "because it's in the rules".

Beg your pardon but the rules set out stated "*at least* one move per day" thereby implying more if possible, and in the case that games were taking too long Art reserved the right "ask you to give times to your adversary where multiple moves can be banged out, and in very extreme cases, to forfeit one player".

Art's use of "Extreme Cases" is open to interpretation, and in mine 2 weeks for a single game is definitely extreme.

If you spent half the time and effort you've already spent reading and posting these forums arguing over how fast or slow you can play we could be well on our way with the game I invited you to 13 hours ago. Instead you are playing the bleeding heart/martyr card on these forums and haven't even accepted my invite yet.

Pressing the point even further, you did sign up for a tournament in a video game with obvious time commitments involved. Don't play it off like you had no idea you would be expected to play and that this asynch game is too time consuming for your busy schedule. I'm 35, hold down a full time job, have 3 kids, wife who works, and a house to maintain and pay for like the rest of us and managing a few minutes of my time here and there to play a turn in HA is no skin off my back.

So all that being said, i'm not trying to chase anyone off, or get myself the boot either but really shit or get off the pot already.


Side Note: I'll abide by ArtNJ's decision on the matter. If he wants this to drag out then so be it.

 

I was willing to be egalitarian about this and go with the majority vote, although I was personally siding with waiting for the update to land. However, when I was given the impression that the other three of the final four wanted to start round 3 now, I assented to the apparent majority. In reality, perhaps we should have waited for everyone to verbally chime in.

What I really want is for us to reach some agreement that accommodates the final four and within reason of course. What we should've done is discussed this first. I mean, there is no reason to rush through things or start right away. The priority should be finding out what everyone can agree to.

In any case, starting right away without hearing from everyone is unnecessarily rushed because a player probably isn't about to start laying down a bunch of moves in the game if they haven't yet the time to even come to the forums and say something.

 

For what it's worth, let me say that my games last 1-2 weeks. Considering this is the final four, and I am also extremely busy with schoolwork, I expected these games to be intensely meditative and thought out. Because Drvumad want to update when the patch hits, I really think we should cancel all current games and wait for the patch to land in 5 days.

Round 2 went so long because it started a bit earlier than I was expecting from waiting for the last few games from Round 1 to finish, so I took 3 days off right at the beginning since I was working on my thesis, but then I still managed to finish all my games with 2 out of 3 opponents in a week after that. So the fact I started a few days late didn't really impact those games.

However, the remaining 1 of those 3 opponents only really played at 4am my time, so it was coming down to about a move per day against my remaining opponent. By the end, I stayed up really late a few nights just so we could finish those games and close out Round 2 properly without having the group victory just handed to me. I apologize for this delay.

I personally really enjoy this tournament as a kind of meditative, thoughtful, and epic series of battles. In the way that I like to play, I like to play several turns in a day, but when I hit a tough situation, it is nice to spend some more time to think about the best possible move to make.

 

Okay, ArtNJ, you have been amazing. You have organized this tournament and started that wonderful league that has garnered a tremendous participation. This tournament has been fantastic, and you shouldn't be stressing out over what you have so kindly put together for us.

It seems that the way things are swaying with everyone, the best for now is to wait until the update. I imagine that this will mean canceling any Round 3 games we have started, and that once the update hits, Dwarves will be off-limits and perhaps even the new map?

Now, yes, it would be good for us all to get along and reach a calm agreement on what is best for the group. Drv seems to have already consented that he will go with whatever ArtNJ decides for the group. It would be nice to hear that David is back in the round, and I really hope he is.

 

This will be the eternal challenge of an asynchronous turn-based game tournament. It either has to allow for extreme lengths of time and dealing with updates that happen mid-tournament or require a strict commitment from the players to make every effort to complete games in a timely manner.

The other potential disconnect is where some players treat the tournament as a more 'fast and loose' experience, where others take it much more seriously (and some are somewhere in the middle). Obviously this leads to friction when the 'serious' folk complain that things aren't serious enough, while the 'fast and loose' just want to get things moving. This turns the pressure on the tournament organizer who then needs to step in to deal with the mess.

Evidently our final 4 is a little all-over-the-place on this spectrum, and this is causing problems here, but it'd be quite the pity to let the final round of this friendly tournament fall apart. One thing everyone agreed upon when signing up for the tournament is that ArtNJ would make the call in case of disagreement, and that call would stand. Is everybody still on board for that?

 

I totally agree that Art has done a great job of keeping this going, despite the difficulties.

I am spending time discussing the tournament rather than playing the games because I was concerned that different people had such different expectations that we would have a big problem. And I think I was right. DrvUMad assumes my life is a lot like his, but it's actually very different (apart from having a wife and kids, but I'm not even in the same city as them right now). Narziss seems to have a very different situation too (and I totally understand needing to spend 3 days head down on your dissertation and you just don't have time for games, not wall clock time but time to focus). The most successful people I know spend lots of time on non-work activities, but they also have times of total focus. I try to do that sometimes too, even though it's not my strength.

And I travel a lot. Sometimes I have meetings all day. I'm not going to duck out to play Hero Academy. Sometimes I'm just tired, and I have the energy to write notes like this one, but not to play an intellectually demanding game after doing intellectually demanding work all day. I shouldn't really have to defend why it takes me 1-2 weeks, like Narziss, to play one of these games. And that's much more in line with what was advertised when we signed up. If I spend 5 minutes a turn, 25 turns per game, 6 games, and finish them all in two days, that's 12 hours over the course of two days. I don't have anywhere near that kind of time to devote to this, much less to do it on demand every hour so that we can go back and forth all day long.

I'm not sure I would choose to play against DrvUMad if I had the choice, but I can't forfeit only those games without messing up the whole tournament, so I'm willing to give it a shot if Art and some of the rest of you have my back when he starts complaining that I took 25 hours for my last turn. Or I'll just learn to ignore it, let it roll off my shoulders.

As it happens, I'm not going to be back online for at least ten hours after writing this. Will check back in this evening. Will make every effort to start all games promptly if we want to do that after patch comes out. Also sounds to me like that will be a plus for Council vs. Dark Elves games (although we don't really know what they are going to do). I hope they do at least explain the exact details of what's changed so we don't have to set up practice games just to discover the rules.

 

"I'm not sure I would choose to play against DrvUMad if I had the choice"

Why make this personal? You came here and pleaded your case as to why things should slow down, I came here and pleaded the opposite and because we don't agree you'd rather forfeit and not play me? If my skin were a different color would that also be a problem? Would you sit on the other end of the bus because of it? If we were married would this mean divorce? Seriously, you react like an adolescent when confronted. I am open to discussion on the matter and am simply trying to make some simple points.

I don't now, nor have I ever assumed yours or anyone's life is like mine, I made reference to my life and family because you implied your life was hectic and too busy for a video game tourney. I can understand if you are unable to make a move for a day or two because life happens. I am not arguing that.

The point I am trying to make and the urgency i'm trying to impress here is that a patch is dropping in less than a week that will completely change this game and the balance this tourney was started and based upon. This tourney needs to finish using the same balance and game rules it set out with or it's results will become meaningless. Everyone here knows CL is getting a nerf and DE is getting a buff in the next patch. Knowing that and switching to the new patch midway through the tourney would be an insult to the 36 other people who didn't make it here. Perhaps some of those 36 are very good DE players but lost because of balance along the way. Do we give them another chance because we are changing the rules halfway through? Do we start all over again? To me it would feel dirty and underhanded to use new rules this far into a tournament after already eliminating 90% of the competition.

That being said i'd like to see this wrap up using the same rules we started with, and if that cannot happen between now and the time the patch drops then I might as well call it now. My friends (and co-workers) intend to upgrade as soon as possible, this tourney be damned. Which means I also will be upgrading asap as well. If that decision disqualifies me from the final 4, so be it. My conscious will be clear. Unfortunately for me a select few people dragged this tourney out so far and so long that it has come to that.

Props to you all for your "long term" strategy and congrats on your win!

 

I'm ok with your decision. I'm going to start the games as soon as I can. Tomorrow I'll be out (carnival). I'm sorry for the delay, I have checked the round 2 thread regularly and nothing seemed to happen and then..boom! we have to hurry. Gl hf all!

 

I agree that it would be preferable to finish the tournament under the same version of the game. That is why you were given the option to play under this version of the game, and if doing so was that important to you, then you should have been okay to agree to not update until your games are done.

I don't see how everything else you said is relevant. There is no reason why we should feel guilty about the patch or want to change anything retroactively just because things have been changed on us now. What if the update had come two or three weeks sooner? Things like this happen. We have not been unfair to anyone. They consciously selected their team based on the state of the game then.

You only had to play two people in round two. What if your third opponent had agreed to stay but had also mentioned that he wouldn't be able to play more than 1-2 moves a day, and then say that you went into a 50-60 turn game. You are looking at a really long game there, and it would not be your fault, and no one would be silly enough to believe it was your fault or that you dragged things out intentionally.

Furthermore, these changes in the update are supposed to be balance changes, and that means changes that make things more fair and less equal. Hopefully they have succeeded in doing that.

 

Well, you say how I play is "over the top", and "completely unreasonable". What do you expect??

"I'm 35, hold down a full time job, have 3 kids, wife who works, and a house to maintain and pay for like the rest of us"

My life is, usually, not that hectic. The way I keep it from being hectic is to avoid interrupting whatever I'm doing every hour just because I need to take my turn in Hero Academy. Sometimes, I'm working on a single problem for a whole day, or three days, and I need to minimize interruptions. That's how I focus and get things done. Then, later, I'm home and I have time for pleasant conversations like this one.

I don't agree, I'd personally rather play with the balance changes, if they make the game better. The goal is to determine the best player, so the more balanced the game, the better. Players can choose a different race after the patch, if they want. But I was also willing to play with the old rules. You are the one who's more concerned with updating when your friends do.

Anyway, I'm glad to have a few days off, since this is a particularly busy time for me. If the patch comes out around Wednesday, I'll be ready to play then, against whoever is still in.

 

What new map (I don't read the RE forums), and why would we reset in that case?

 

Honestly I have nothing more constructive to say so i'll keep my opinions to myself.

Good luck to the final 3, i'm out.

 

Ok, I see, that seems a bit goofy. Seems to me they could easily add another 5-10 different maps without having to do weird stuff like teleporters.

It would be great if you could post what's known about the update in the TA thread so we don't have to follow the HE forums.

 

This is strange because you agreed to go along with whatever ArtNJ decides, you also put some constraints on the tournament by refusing to withhold updating, and now you are quitting?

On top of that, it isn't very nice to demand that others play as frequently as you, citing that their lives can't possibly be that busy. I think most of us have a different approach, and like Daviddesj, I personally like to keep a productive and yet not super hectic/stressful atmosphere. When I play HA, I spend a considerable amount of time thinking about the best moves, and if I had to speed play, I just wouldn't have time to focus on anything else.

 

Check this out:

http://www.robotentertainment.com/blog/detail/MMM-Heroic-Sneak-Peek