help! need feedback for my demo video (180)

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by headcaseGames, Nov 9, 2010.

  1. headcaseGames

    headcaseGames Well-Known Member

    Jun 26, 2009
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    if you have seen this (or especially PLAYED this game already) then move right along.. I need some opinions from virgin eyeballs.

    I am gearing up to do a promotion and will send this video along, but I want to get some feedback before I decide if I should alter it.


    Please be harsh/constructive as necessary :)

    Spoilered text follows, highlight to read. Please watch video 1st before reading.
    1. Did you watch the video the whole way through, most of it, or just a little bit before turning it off?
    2. Did you understand the gameplay after watching for a little while, or were the rules unclear?
    3. After watching this, are you interested to look at (at least) the Free demo of the game?
    4. If "how to play" instructions were flashed at the beginning, would this matter to you either way?


    Thanks for your help!

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  2. jessicalolz

    jessicalolz Well-Known Member

    Dec 12, 2009
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    I don't understand this. Your game is now on the store for really long time and you still wanna make some more videos?
     
  3. headcaseGames

    headcaseGames Well-Known Member

    Jun 26, 2009
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    I'll explain the details elsewhere if you are interested, just want feedback only in this thread please :)
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  4. BravadoWaffle

    BravadoWaffle Well-Known Member

    Sep 25, 2010
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    Hey, I haven't played the game yet, but from watching the video I see how much fun it can be!

    Thoughts:

    At the moment, I don't feel overly compelled to buy the game even though the game looks very polished and well produced and I could easily understand how to play the game from the video alone, it's largely due to the fact that this video is under-produced.

    • Toooo long. 1 minute, 1:30 max is how long promotional videos should be. I lasted about 45 seconds into the video before I skipped around and turned it off.
    • Needs exciting background music to get viewers excited
    • What is up with those graphic artifact glitches that appear in the top left hand side of the screen? Or are they glitches...
    • Would benefit from some titles explaining key game features
    • Be sure to splash your logo and game name very clearly in the beginning and the end.

    That being said, cool game! :D
     
  5. mr.Ugly

    mr.Ugly Well-Known Member

    Dec 1, 2009
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    since i played the demo i'm not allowed to comment on this video..

    but first thing i noticed is the sound.. is this a new soundtrack you will have implemented in the upcoming version? if not how come youre promo sound is so different from you ingame sound.

    and agree to mr waffle sup with your iphone? is the screen defective?
    if yes and you can't make a video on a different device why not caputure
    the game in the simulator?

    6:30! lol wtf! .. i agree that the video is too long and well boring.. would you like to watch a video of tetris for 6 minutes? and i disagree with mr.waffle i think even one minute is too long for this kind of game.. you don't have 20 levels with bossbattles and explosions and special effects poping all over the screen.. so keep it short.. very short


    ok i wanted to add some more.. but then the video was finished and i saw you already have videos on yourtube..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oQY7pC4RPY

    why do you want to use this new.. sorry crappy video if you have already something alot better? .. i think its still to long but miles ahead of your attempt up there?

    /me confused
     
  6. headcaseGames

    headcaseGames Well-Known Member

    Jun 26, 2009
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    that's right. no comments ugly!! :)

    1st I forgot the length of this video when I posted it. I don't expect anyone on this board would watch past 1 minute in, sorry about that. To be honest I was trying to ape the style of those crazy "Tetris Master" videos which are all over the internet, where a pro player is shown fighting the game faster and faster. That was actually the real purpose of this vid (that's also why there is different music playing)

    Ugly the video you posted was the original promo vid I made to intro the game when it first released. I was happy with it at the time, because it demonstrated the rules clearly and also is very clean. Unfortunately, it doesn't read well to gamers (as opposed to the "hectic" video) and I've actually got tons of negative feedback on it, so I try to distance myself from it (though it still is useful, and has got tons of hits, relatively). Ideally I'd like to redo the vid with this style, but honestly it's a lot of work and I am just real busy at the moment, this thread was intended to get feedback from some people who've not played the game to decide if the "hectic" vid was even still viable or too problematic.

    As for the lines on the screen, well this is lame but my iPhone is pretty beat up. It actually looks much better in that vid than it does now. I'll upgrade someday if I ever make some money :p (as for "do a simulator capture," that's a long story too - you gotta work with what you have!)

    Thanks for the help people!

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  7. Ovogame

    Ovogame Well-Known Member

    Sep 25, 2010
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    same as the others:

    WAY too long. I was bored after 45 sec. Try to keep your video to 60 to 90.
    No, I didn't understand the gameplay, no I don't want how to play instruction on a promo video. (would be too boring). You create a promo video to get people exited and download your game, not to teach them how to play. It doesn't matter if we don't know how to play, but it would matter if you try to only show exiting stuff in your video... I don't know ... like powers up, big combos... chains.. That's should be enought.

    I would prefer having the ingame snd than a snd track.

    Hope it helps...

    JC
     
  8. gammabeam

    gammabeam Well-Known Member

    Ok, video watched, answers below:

    1. I didn't watch the whole thing. I watched it for about 50 seconds.
    The music was kinda getting on my nerves, but it was fun watching the "finger" perform those combos.


    2. Totally understood it. Maybe it was because I already saw some screenshots of your game in the forum, but then again I manage to understand it back then just by looking at the SS.


    3. I'll buy it! Definetly my kind of puzzle!
    But I was hoping you would explain more about what modes does it offer, and I really didn't enjoy the music - if it was on the game, I'd turn it off. Not that it is badly executed, but I don't like the style and I'm not sure it matches the game.

    4. Nope. But as I answered on (3), I'd like to see more about the features of the game.

    It looks like a very nice game, and the switch mechanics is innovative but intuitive!

    *EDIT*
    Oh yeah! What's with the messed screen?! That's kinda bad for the game's publicity :p
     
  9. mr.Ugly

    mr.Ugly Well-Known Member

    Dec 1, 2009
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    you want people to comment on the video and you forget that it was over 6 minutes long?!
    and who cares about once upon a time tetris master videos. does your gameplay gets faster? i can't say i didnt watched the 6 minutes.. because the video is just boring.. and the broken iphone is actualy sad.


    then you found to right place to ask a stranger to watch your video?!
    and 2,5k is tons of hits? on youtube? something is off here.

    possible you should work the negative feedback of that video INTO the video and since the other video you showed us is ancient aswell possible you should actualy invest time and work into something.

    at the end of the day the product itself is not appealing, possible the gameplay is ok for a puzzler but the rest is not. one might think you would have grasped that by know, as you are an artist, at least i tought you are.
    the hole product lacks any art direction, nothing really fits together.. its hold together by mediocrity.. and thats not good enough in a appstore filled with match3 similar puzzlers.


    well no, you can't create a game in a void.. if you don't have the hardware, buy them.. if you don't have the money.. earn some.. somewhere else.
    work at mc donalds or wherever.. a new ipod touch is a bit over 200$ , instead of giving away daily crap to stranger who doesnt help you at all to achieve your goal. you could spend that money into getting you into the game. 180 is old in appstore time.. it has no game center, no retina gfx its ancient.. either fix it or leave it be.. do the next thing. you don't develope a "brand" if you sit on a dead egg forever waiting for it to hatch.. you just wast time.

    i noticed you are not even the actual seller of the game its mr.ma and from your post here and there i suppose you are the only one left with "headcase games" and 180, since you don't update the game you don't change anything.. how can you if you might don't even have a mac to compile the source one., if you even have the source to start with..

    i don't know your situation, but from my pov you are doing it wrong and quite stubborn.

    what you deliver doesnt look like the work of an professional artist who worked on several big titles..

    well what can i say.. good luck ron.. you'll need it
     
  10. madmud101

    madmud101 Well-Known Member

    Dec 30, 2009
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    Didn't watch the whole thing. 45 secs.

    I sort of understand the way the game works.

    It may just be not my sort of game, but no, I would not buy or is interested in the game.

    Maybe 2 sentences about the basic concept of the game might help to break it up a bit, but not a whole explanation of the controls.

    I get the concept you want to start simple and then move onto crazy combos etc, but it really doesn't work here.
    You need to intwine the music with the mood. The gameplay needs to start simple and then merge to quick cuts and manic gameplay. A great example of this would be the Edge (or whatever it is called) trailer. It always manages to pull me in whenever I watch it.

     
  11. headcaseGames

    headcaseGames Well-Known Member

    Jun 26, 2009
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    I think this is what they call "tough love"

    Guess what! Independent development is often occurring far outside of the route of "traditional and mainstream," sometimes you have to do whatever is necessary to get where you are going (or find where you are trying to go). If I was a proper businessman I wouldn't even be in this industry, certainly not in this capacity at least. Anyway I do what I do because it makes sense given what I have, and my personal situation. If that displeases you, I can't help it. I will promote my game as much as it makes sense to do so, and as the opportunity arises I'd love to work on more projects to be held up to the same scrutiny. If that will happen, no one can say. This is the reality for many independent developers, whether they are artists, coders, sales, promoters, or straight businessmen.

    As usual I will leave my work to be judged by itself, and expect that most folks won't care about the story of the people who've made it. If enough people enjoy it, then that's good. If it leads to a more positive situation than was before, then all the better. If it's an exhuasting failure, then you move on and don't look back.

    Anyway, thanks to all who've taken the time to look at this and answer my questions, I respectfully request that we don't spend any more time in this topic discussing the philosophies, practicalities, and realities of app development in this particular thread. You know where to reach me if you'd like to do that..
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  12. mr.Ugly

    mr.Ugly Well-Known Member

    Dec 1, 2009
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    i like public discussion because they are open to more than two pairs of eyes.
    and you can get more out of it if there are more people involved into a discussion

    and i know what it is to be independant.. doing this stuff for a bit over 10 years now and i manage to pay my bills with it.. i do alot of contract work but i design my own games aswell.. so i understand pretty well what it takes to be an independant and not be employed by some big companie. i had my share of bad times with 5digit debts and my god times with as much on the account.. so what?

    i only tried to help and give some suggestions, at the end its your descision what you do and your on your own to make your own luck.

    at the end of every day one should do a reality check and see if what he does actual leads somewhere.. one can spend alot of time hunting behind a dream which never comes true.. i did that once.. i failed.. i learned.. i changed and its ok now.

    well to come back to the topic.

    i think the edge trailer is good.. but edge has alot of variety in it.. its tenfold as complex as 180 so edge can show alot more in a trailer and still surprise the player with the next level ingame.. with 180 what you see is what you get.. there is not much more to it.. so its hard to make a good trailer for such games in general, so one must put in 10 time the efford to achive something similar.
     
  13. Foursaken_Media

    Foursaken_Media Well-Known Member
    Patreon Indie

    My biggest issue with the video was the music, by far. I didn't enjoy it personally, I don't think its neutral enough for the masses, and I don't think it seems like it fit the game. I think madmud hit it pretty well though, if you are trying to shoot for a slowly building video into total hectic chaos, then that can certainly work, but ALL elements of the video have to contribute to that mood, otherwise it just doesn't quite convey what I think you want it to convey.

    The music should start off slow for ex. Don't clip to new scenes very often early on. Then, as the music builds, keep switching from combo to combo, flipping tiles everywhere and getting massive chains. The chaos of the actual music and video (constantly switching scenes, hectic music) I think will aid in creating that feeling of really getting crazy.

    I think I mentioned this before (and I know at this juncture its probably unrealistic for you), but if you ever get the time to update the game I think fancier effects would just add a world of appeal (shock waves, particle explosions, shines, etc). As unfortunate as it may be, the reality is your game can be the best puzzle game in the world (game play wise), but you first have to get people to think it LOOKS cool enough to even experience that game play.

    Btw I think the game play itself looks really fun :)
     
  14. headcaseGames

    headcaseGames Well-Known Member

    Jun 26, 2009
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    ugly - I know you mean well and are just trying to be real. my point was I just wanted this thread to help me get a sense if I needed to spend time/energy overhauling this existing demo. I know it's a tough sell on this forum for many reasons, but worth a shot. I have no issue talking about all the stuff surrounding it, I just was trying to avoid getting too sidetracked from the real purpose. Also, and I am guilty of this as well - very much - a lot of these developer threads usually devolve into general mishmash/criticisms. That's fine but it does sort of defeat the intention in the first place in some cases. I'd prefer to have discussion on the other facets of the topic in the appropriate thread, just out of consideration for the other people who are in here. That's a hard ship to steer though!

    4saken (watch as I contradict what I've just said above) thanks again for your kind words and constructive advice. I agree the whole game could use a serious layer of polish to help broaden it's appeal. If that was easily applied, it would be done! The game itself is pretty much as done as it's gonna get, this version anyway, for a lot of reasons (mostly programming ones) I don't think it's unmarketable by a long shot, but it definitely would be easier with a lot of refinement! If things play out well perhaps I'll get to do a DX version someday with all the bells and whistles it deserves, as it is I am satisfied that it looks appropriate to support the gameplay.

    Most importantly the feedback you've all given me on this gameplay trailer is very helpful and I'll take a lot of it into account as I decide what step to take with it next, thanks again!

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