Nope, as it's passive (just passing thru the signal generated by the iDevice itself), it (the first-gen HDMI adapter) also outputs 1080p60 flawlessly. As does the VGA adapter, BTW. It's genuine Apple, not a Chinese cr@p. So is my VGA adapter. After getting burnt some time (useless CCK knockoffs, composite cables etc.), I wouldn't purchase anything from China. Also factor in that, unless the game has native TV out (when it uses the same output resolution on all platforms - for example, Asphalt 6 and 7 will always use lousy 480p on everything, even the latest-and-greatest iPad 4/iPhone 5), mirroring is done at different resolutions: XGA for the iPad 2 and 1440*1080 for the iPad 3. That is, the latter will produce a better image. Again, this only applies to mirrored images - natively generated ones will probably have the same resolution, no matter the iDevice model it's running at. (See my above remark on the native 480p output resolution of the Asphalt titles.) Thanks for the tip - I'll upgrade the non-JB'n iPad 3 to 6.1.3 and re-shoot the test to see whether there's any improvement.
Okay, try upgrading the ipad 3 to the newest ios, and reshoot, and post the vids of the ipad 3 and ipad 4. I will see how good I can get a vid for my ipad 3 with the newer connector, and we shall see what kind of role the newer connector has and also see how the ipad 3 30 pin hdmi compares with the ipad 4 lightning hdmi. I am curious to see if the graphics quality or framerates between the older and newer hdmi connector for the 30 pin would be any different. And yeah, Asphalt 7 airplay widescreen is lousy, 480p sucks. Would rather play that game mirrored. I suppose there is no way to force a game mirrored and turn off airplay. Sometimes I wish you could toggle airplay widescreen on and off. Cause most of the airplay games are only 720p. Why A7 is worse, I got no idea. I thought it was a bug.
The Lightning adapter has two modes: - iOS-native video decoding. Then, it's the adapter (and not the iDevice) that does the decoding. So far, I've found its decoder equally fast than that of A5+ iDevices: for example, it could decode even higher-bitrate 1080p60 test videos. - everything else: mirroring and direct TV output. Interestingly, in the latter case, while the app may drive the output at a lower resolution, it'll always be reported as 1080p to the external monitor, as opposed to the older adapters. In the latter case, the maximum true reoslution is 900p and there is some 80-100ms lag because of the active en/decoding.
Yup - at least not w/o jailbreaking. IIRC there MIGHT be some JB tools which tap into how UIScreen returns the number of attached external monitors to fool e.g. the BBC app to think it isn't mirrored. Yup, the majority of them are. They just hard-wired 480p into the code. Dunno why - probably because of sloppiness or just using the same code for outputting to even RGB / composite cables where 480p is the max? Dunno.
Ok, Here's a quick video showing my HDMI experience with the iPad Mini. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9iPYW_8-tGJMkZOak9nZW8xUE0/edit?usp=sharing *Play it full screen @1080p for the best viewing experience* I can safely say that the experience is perfect, and Real Racing 3 is such an enjoyable game on the big screen. Notice the distance numbers on the bottom of each screen, you'll see that it there no latency delay, and the frame rate is excellent! iPad: Non-jailbroken running iOS 6.1.2 Adapter: Lightning-to-HDMI (Apple Digital AV Adapter) Firmware 6.1.0 (10B7129) and Hardware 1.0.0 For those wondering about my full HDMI setup click here Let me what you think, and if you like these sort of videos, I'll do some proper ones with my DSLR.
There is; see for example: (taken at 0:08) The external screen still shows 54 mph, the iPad already shows 56. Yup, as I've posted above, the Lightning adapter (as opposed to wireless AirPlay) is capable of delivering 60 fps in mirroring mode too.
wow...you're good! well...to the naked eye...it really looks smooth and lag-free, and the delay is probably in milliseconds. I'm still going to enjoy it though
Yup, in my experience, racing games CAN be played without major glitches / headaches over the Lightning adapter. It's "only" action games like pinball games that require the fastest possible reaction that can't. There, the superiority of the old adapters / cables is evident.
Wow, it was really hard to get some vids of afterburner climax. I was stacking box after box on, to get my iphone high enough to do a video. Have to say my vids look far better than even your vids for the ipad 4. Better resolution I think. Framerates are almost always close to 60 fps on my ipad 3 hdmi out with the newer connector. The ipad 4 may have slightly smoother better cpu/gpu performance affecting hdmi, but my vids show definite proof that probably either the new connector or something else is affecting your comparisons. Xeyad, there will always be a slight delay in hdmi, but in no way can you see it with the naked eye. If you take pictures like I do with both the ipad and tv showing for really fast games, you will see it. Take some if you can. I will post my vids somehow tomorrow of afterburner climax, you shall see how impressive it looks with hardly any framerate loss and no lagging or delay. Edit: and pinball games on the ipad 3 hdmi are no problem whatsoever.
You will definitely notice it when playing e.g. War Pinball. I have. OK. I'll also post the new videos today, after the 6.1.3 upgrade.
Just tried Wild West Pinball...you guys are right. There is just a slight delay that makes it annoying to play pinball games on HDMI This is certainly a problem, but can probably be fixed through a software update. After all, these Lightning adapters actually iOS of some sorts. Overall though, most games are very playable.
This could only be fixed if the adapter got the inner hardware (including the CPU, GPU, RAM etc.) of the iPhone / iPad so that it could run any apps locally. Unfortunately, the entire Lightning architecture is flawed in that it just can't provide nowhere near 2 Gbps for 1080p30 HDMI transmission, let alone double that (4 Gbps for 1080p60). This is why they have invented AirPlay-based data compression while traversing the cable itself. That is, ANYTHING running on the main iPhone / ipad will encounter lagging as its screen output needs to be, first, encoded and then decoded.
So would the best solution be for the Apple TV itself to run games while the iDevices act as the controllers? It makes so much sense yet Apple steadfastly treats Apple TV as the red headed stepchild... Still waiting for Spotify on my Apple TV.
AirPlay is by far the worst solution now for action gaming: - lag (according to my benchmarks, between 130 and 150ms), - framerate (30 fps only, as opposed to the native 60 fps of every cabled solution, incl. even the new Lightning connectors) - and resolution (even lower than that of Lightning, let alone the "old" HDMI and VGA adapters). Yes, moving the actual game engine running to the ATV would fix all these issues, meaning also the native ATV games you spoke of. However, it'd require a significant upgrade of the hardware (e.g., RAM and dual-core CPU) to produce the same results (speed etc.) as any A5+-based iDevice out there.
Updated to 6.1.3. The results are equally bad on my non-JB'n iPad 3: while the game runs just fine (almost no dropped frames) on the built-in screen, it slows down to 2-3 fps on an external one when there's plenty of action while I steer the plane like mad. The first video is here (direct 1080p30 Elgato capture): http://youtu.be/VCmy36M9oQc Will post dual videos later (couldn't shoot them as I'm at work).
It's interesting to see all the work put into testing and whatnot. The reality for me though is I like HDMI for gaming on my 4S when I feel a game actually benefits from it greatly. Otherwise I just stick to treating my phone like a portable console (which is what I wanted it to be anyway and that's working out well). I'm a bit confused by all the new technical data, it sounds like iPad3 is worse than everything for HDMI gaming. Which I guess wasn't too far off of what I was thinking... especially when mirroring means it has to downgrade the Retina image for the tv display which adds another possible layer of processing in there or something else that a native 1:1 mirroring shouldn't (like iPad2 and iPhone 4S). Ultimately though I don't really care that much. My 4S works for what I intended and AirPlay'ing video from my phone to an AppleTV does great for sharing content without connecting wires. It's decent for showing a game to someone else while I stare at the screen, but not for a more meaningful console like experience unless all the conditions are just perfect (network lag being a big part of that).
While there are alot of uses that HDMI can serve for an iphone, I really have to say that ipad retina especially with a joystick like icade is the preferable setup. As I kinda explained in the post below, resolution is very important with hdmi games. It has to be noted that we are zooming a couple of inches screen to 40" or even bigger like 60". And some of us have to use a TV stretch mode to get it full screen. The main thing though, is that the HDMI connector is very bulky and big! To use it with an iphone kinda defeats the use of it with such a small device. Even for my ipad, the connector can be a little annoying, so I try not to use the power connector when using it cause it adds more weight. Playing with just the hdmi connector (no power), it basically feels like playing my ipad when I do just have the power cable in. However for an iphone, the weight/size ratio doesn't make as much sense. Also, it is nice to be able to just rest the ipad in your lap or tripod on a table for hdmi play. Or use your iphone with joypad app as a joystick, or better yet, use an icade core joystick for hdmi tv play for a console like experience. And of course stuff like ipad retina graphics having better resolution and the such. Not trying to bag on iphone HDMI, since it is awesome too, but anyway. I would almost recommend appletv over hdmi for an iphone just for the above portability issues of the hdmi connector. Well, I think this is kinda alittle untrue, just like how you stated before that my ipad 3 hdmi connector was outputting in 720p, so iphone 4s hdmi should be better than ipad 3 hdmi. Here. http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2677262&postcount=105 Menneisyys youtube clips have mostly been from the very very old VGA adapter of the ipad 3. He also has an the old version of the 30 pin connector, not the new one. Also, Menneisyys and I are trying to figure out what exactly is the issue with the ipad 3 hdmi (with old hdmi connector), because after you see my videos (which I will try to post later today), show a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference in something, whether it is the old vs new connector or something else. If you see my cruddy vids of my ipad 3 with new 30 pin hdmi you will see what I am saying. It plays better visually than an arcade game, framerates seem like close to 60 fps most of the time (of course the ipad 3 has some cpu/gpu slowdowns compared to the ipad 4 sometimes). Menneisyys seems to be under the impression that the 30 pin and VGA connectors are simply pass through devices with no processing, and no delay. I am not sure on this, there must be something causing the HUGE differences in his ipad 3 hdmi (old) vid and my new connector vids. If it is not the hdmi adapter itself (which I think it could be cause why else would it be so big? There must be a lot of chips in there), then it probably is that the ios itself is the issue. What I mean by that is the newer updates change the hdmi processing code on the ipad 3 itself, that is why I am seeing huge improvements when ios upgraded from 6.0 to 6.0.1 or from 6.1 to 6.1.3. Or maybe it is a memory issue, where one has to close all apps to get good framerate play. Who knows. Maybe the upgrades to hdmi coding only work with the new connector vs the old. Anyway, I am not sure, while both Menneisyys seem to be the premiere HDMI experts in the world, and both knowledgeable in electrical engineering and computer science, the reality of the situation, is to know exactly what is going on exactly with the hdmi connectors would require a lab, a teardown of the connectors, and maybe even a PHD degree. Anyway, I dunno. Nightc1, if you get a chance, please post a vid of afterburner climax on your iphone 4s. But it maybe hard for you in your case, cause you can't use your iphone to record. But read this night... http://www.panic.com/blog/2013/03/the-lightning-digital-av-adapter-surprise/ Look at the complexity of the ipad 4 hdmi connector, gotta find a teardown of the new 30 pin ipad 3 connector and one of the old 30 pin (or maybe someone here can post the teardowns of all the adapters, attached here is a teardown of the ipad 4 lightning connector), cause there must be something in there. If not, then perhaps, it is something in the ios itself that forces the old connector to not use the newer hdmi coding. But in theory, and I am almost afraid to post it cause I too have limited proof cause I don't have an ipad 4 or lightning connector, the ipad 3 might have the best hdmi, cause it would have the best resolution, the least lag, and have native hdmi support not a weird wacked airplay compressed algorithm. Of course, there is the issue too that the ipad 4 is 2x stronger in theory than the ipad 3 in cpu/gpu, though in reality, many games are only showing maybe a 15% improvement currently or some special effects like blur or shadows. So this is an important factor, and using what is probably the #1 cpu/gpu resource hog game on ios as a fair test is probably not best, cause the vast majority of games, do not even use the horsepower of even my ipad 3. Actually after updates to Nova 3, wild blood, and ios upgrades, all games pretty much run fine on my ipad 3 and hdmi tv. Afterburner climax is probably the worst, though now after ios 6.1.3, for the most part, it runs great close to 60 fps, just once in a while it gets kinda laggy if a ton of things are on the screen. But you will see how good it looks in my vids. I dunno, was thinking alot about it when Menneissys started posting some ipad 3 vga youtubes, but when he made the comment that ipad 3 mirroring has a lot of problems, I don't see it, actually my videos will show that it looks better than even the ipad 4 videos that he posted earlier. I appreciate Menneissys' postings though cause they have been very interesting and informative. So thanks, Menneissys. But we will have to wait after I get the vids up. Also, there are a lot of comments from hdmi lightning connector saying that pinball games are very hard to play with a lightning connector cause of the lag, but for the 30 pin hdmi, I really notice very little problems. Yes, it is a hair slower than the ipad maybe, but if you all didn't mention it here, I would never have noticed a problem. Anyway, I will post my vids soon after I figure out the best way for me to do so. And my vids suck, this is the first time I have ever tried to video my tv, I gotta figure out a better method than to keep stacking boxes, then put odd stuff on the boxes to try to get my iphone anywhere close to a good position. Was really scared that I would drop my iphone. Lucky I didn't.
Today, I've made some additional tests to find out how much worse the iPad 3 is, compared to the iPad 2, while mirroring via HDMI. (The "old" model - note that, given that these adapters, unlike the Lightning ones, don't contain any active components which could reduce the framerate, I don't think there's any complexity & resolution-dependent framerate difference between the two HDMI, the VGA adapters and the composite / component cables. Of course, I'm eager to see Connector's videos to find out whether I'm wrong and it's indeed the new HDMI adapter that is significantly better than the old one or the VGA adapter.) As I've explained above, the test iPad 3 runs the latest iOS (6.1.3), isn't jailbroken and was reset before the test. When mirroring, the iPad 3 delivered consistently worse results (worse framerates) in both Real Racing 3 and After Burner. The iPad 2's results aren't flawless either: the iPhone 4S delivers far better framerates (but, of course, at a somewhat lower resolution: 960*640 vs. 1024*768). I'm uploading the direct 1080p30 grabs of both the iPad 3 and iPad 2 results. They will become available in about 5-6 hours: iPad 3: http://youtu.be/uc8rvioONQw iPad 2: http://youtu.be/pF9q3bmyYu8 I'll post the 720p60 dual camera recordings too so that you can also see how fluently these games played on both iPads' internal screen. There were only one or two hiccups, unlike on the external screen. What about native (non-mirrored) TV output? I'll run some serious tests to also find out the non-mirroring speed differences (if any) with titles directly supporting TV out and not using mirroring, not even on the iPad (many titles mirror on iPad while don't do on the iPhone). All in all, if you want to stick with the old adapters (because of the lag of the Lightning one) and want to play mirroring-only games like RR3, your best bet is the iPhone 4S, followed by the iPad 2. EDIT: iPad2 URL is posted: http://youtu.be/pF9q3bmyYu8
I recommend advancing frame-by-frame in the iPad 3 video ( http://youtu.be/uc8rvioONQw ) at, say, 2:14 to properly count the dropped frames. For example, between this: (full image: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81986513/042013/hdmi/afterb-ipad3-frame1tocountdroppedones.jpeg ) and this: (full image: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81986513/042013/hdmi/afterb-ipad3-frame2tocountdroppedonest.jpeg ) frames there have been a pause of 7 frames, meaning the framerate dropped to 30/7 = ~4.3 at this point. (30 because the Elgato Game Capture HD only records at 30 fps over 720p.)
