HDMI out and gaming

Discussion in 'General Game Discussion and Questions' started by killercow, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. killercow

    killercow Well-Known Member

    #1 killercow, Dec 18, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
    HDMI out and gaming

    This is a Thread for those who like to play on the big screen, getting those pesky fingers out of the way. Even though size isn't everything it can make things more enjoyable ;)
     
  2. #2 Connector, Jan 5, 2013
    Last edited: May 24, 2013
    HDMI out and gaming

    Welcome to the HDMI Loverz Club!

    Your gateway into the exciting world of using your idevice as a console using your tv and wireless joysticks so that your idevice can be enjoyed to it's max. This group not only encompasses HDMI users, but also supports conversations about it's twin sister, Appletv, since they basically both do the same thing.

    HDMI FAQ
    -----------

    I recommend this cable: 25 foot hdmi cable for $7. Though any hdmi cable will do.

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000IJY8DS/ref=mp_s_a_1?qid=1362452175&sr=8-1&pi=SL75

    This cable has worked for me. At first I was going to get a 15 foot cable, but man, now I am happy that I got the 25 foot cable as one person recommended, cause I use my ipad in more unexpected places than I thought. Plus you need a long cable so you don't get constrainted.

    This generic cable is good quality, doesn't circle up, and has been very reliable, no problems even at 25 foot. Don't get a 6 ft cable, your ipad needs space to move. Get the 25 foot even if you don't need the length now, it is plenty cheap and good.

    For the hdmi connector, couldn't find a cheap alternative on amazon. I wouldn't risk a couple of bucks to get a china one and constantly getting a not recognized on my ipad errors.

    The ones in the applestore are probably your best bet. Make sure you get the right one cause they make new lightning connection ones too. You can also buy them at Target, Best Buys, Walmarts, and other stores. Try one out, if you don't like it, you can return them within 30 days.

    The connectors for iphone 4s, ipad 2&3 (30 pin connector)

    http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD098ZM/A/apple-digital-av-adapter

    The connectors for iphone 5 and ipad mini and ipad 4 (lightning connector)

    http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD826ZM/A/lightning-digital-av-adapter

    Links
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    Airplay Widescreen Supported Games

    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2638368&postcount=52

    Lightning Connector HDMI Concerns

    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=173262&page=23

    Ipad 3 30 pin HDMI vs Ipad 4 Lightning HDMI Comparison Videos

    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2804208&postcount=311

    Ipad 3 30 pin vs Ipad 4 Lightning Connector Comparisons

    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=173262&page=28

    Menneisyys' The Definitive Comparison: The Two 30-pin HDMI Adapters

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=17256350

    1080p vs 720p and Idevice Resolutions

    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2677262&postcount=105

    Official Ion Icade Game list

    http://www.ionaudio.com/products/icade-games/

    Icade Thread Games List

    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=1218865&postcount=1

    Icade Models and Buying Guide

    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2792715&postcount=254

    Which icade should I get thread?

    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=184266

    Top 10 icade joystick games

    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2792487&postcount=253

    Toucharcade Icade Compatible Games List

    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2657301&postcount=1426

    Various Ios Joystick Article

    http://m.techradar.com/news/gaming/best-ios-games-controllers-our-top-4-reviewed-and-rated-1146913

    Interesting Menneisyys HDMI Posts

    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2729327&postcount=209
    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2752942&postcount=233
    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2796979&postcount=263
    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2800170&postcount=269
    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2816260&postcount=337
    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2818720&postcount=339
    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2820990&postcount=345
    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=2820991&postcount=346

    Appletv info

    http://ipad.about.com/od/iPad_Accessories/fr/Apple-Tv-Review-3rd-Generation.htm

    HDMI vs Appletv

    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=173262&page=7

    Multiplayer games w/ on-screen, bluetooth or wifi

    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=182917

    Hybrid Styluses

    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=167721&highlight=Stylus&page=2

    Console Gaming versus idevice HDMI TV Gaming

    http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=173262&page=14

    Lightning Connector HDMI Issues

    http://www.panic.com/blog/2013/03/the-lightning-digital-av-adapter-surprise/

    -------

    Ironman on an ipad 3 hdmi tv... And attached is Repulze.

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  3. syntheticvoid

    syntheticvoid Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that very indepth post Connector! I just ordered my adapter and cable today, but I won't get it until next month (probably) since it's being shipped across seas - but I'm super stoked to check everything out... unfortunately, I don't have a retina iPad - that'll probably be something I wind up getting next year... I usually switch off - get an iPod/iPhone one year, iPad the next...

    Anywho... thanks again for all the great info and impressions! =oD
     
  4. #4 Connector, Jan 5, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
    Yeah, I wonder how hdmi would look on an ipad 2 or mini. My ipad 2 res games like ronin, polara, dodonpachis, and bug princesses all look pretty good on the tv, so I think Repulze too will show the increase of speed that I see on my tv and also the nice hallway widescreen effect on an ipad 2.

    I hope your tv has a lot of zooming options, my tv has normal, wide, zoom, stretch, and panorama. The letterboxing of games is disappointing at first, but when I use stretch or zoom mode to get the game full widescreen on my tv, wow, it is pretty impressive. Have to fiddle a little with all the screen modes though to see which tv mode works best. Generally stretch or wide seem best, but some games like Deathsmiles or Dariusburst, man, wow look great on zoom mode, it takes out all black bars (which I would see on my new ipad)!

    Landscape games work well in stretch mode, portrait mode though, it is hard to stretch to full screen due to no screen mode for that, so usually play vertical shmups and such in wide mode. For portrait games, you do have to be closer to your tv for good effect since the letterboxing plays an important role. When I am playing vertical shmups like dodonpachi or bug princess, I sit about 5 feet from my tv using wide mode. For landscape and airplay games, I sit about 10 feet back and use stretch mode. That is for a 40" screen. Games must look better on a 50" screen or bigger. A long hdmi cable is important, I got a 25 ft hdmi cable off Amazon for $6 and it is working great.

    But I am curious how much of a difference a retina vs non retina ipad hdmi makes. Anyone have hdmi and both a newer ipad and ipad 2, and can let us know? I am curious to know if retina would make a huge difference in hdmi performance.

    Below, Beat Hazard using airplay widescreen hdmi.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Greyskull

    Greyskull Well-Known Member

    Dec 13, 2009
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    Connector: are you sure that the screen res of the ipad affects the video output? I was checking the specs on my Ipad Bitty, and it shoots the same resolution Video as an iPad 4, iirc. I know those are two different things, but I'm not sure if it's really a bottleneck. Sure, you'll have less effects (maybe...see ipad 3 for an example of a devices pushing more pixels than it has any business doing), but I'm not sure about the resolution. What I'm thinking is the graphics processor might not be locked in and limited to the screen resolution.
     
  6. #6 Connector, Jan 6, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
    Well, that is kind of what I was asking, this whole hdmi, airplay, apple tv console stuff is kind of a weird tech demo, haha!

    That's why I was asking someone who had hdmi and a retina ipad and non retina ipad to let us know. I can tell you this from my use of hdmi, games with ipad 2 resolution like ronin, polara, etc; do not look as good as retina games on my tv. So retina graphics, I think do make a difference.

    My tv is 1080p, not really sure how retina ipad figures into it during hdmi mirroring mode, but my tv does not quite show the resolution if retina ipad. However, overall it looks much better due to better brightness, contrast, colors, and of course size. So much so that it is getting hard for me to play on my retina ipad. Much prefer tv, but of course not all games control well on tv like some puzzle games and street fighter games.

    So yes, I *think* retina ipads will look better. Maybe not full ipad retina level, but somewhere inbetween cause it is being converted to 1080p.

    Another baffling thing is airplay. Airplay games are all widescreen, but looks like lower resolution like ipad 2 level. Really strange, hard to explain until you experience it, but on tv, with so many zoom modes available, airplay games, apple tv, hdmi, ipad retina, ipad 2 res, iphone only, landscape, portrait, etc; it is quite like a tech demo.

    But man, it is fun! I know there are not many people out there that use their ipads as consoles, but being on the forefront of technology is totally fun. It is kind of like hacking around with a pc, so many settings, situations, like a wonderful tech demo.

    I really think this will catch on, having tablets as consoles. Using an ipad as a joystick or even having a wireless joystick will be the ultimate.

    Repulze looks great, way better on hdmi tv. Now I loaded on flashout, axl, ion racer, all play well on my tv. Close games like catch the arc, riptide gp, or shrine runner, wow all of these motion games look much better than what I remember from my arcade games. A huge tv makes a mammoth difference.

    Ok, going back to playing Repulze on my tv. See yas. If anyone has hdmi, a retina ipad and non retina ipad, let us know if it displays differently on a hdmi tv!

    Real Racing 3 on ipad 3 hdmi.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. killercow

    killercow Well-Known Member

    #7 killercow, Jan 6, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
    I'm glad that you're enjoying hdmi out Connector, it really is awesome and I wish more games would be fully supported (at 1080p).

    Ipad 2 is 720p on hdmi out (For video). Ipad 3 and up is 1080p. Other than that it's mostly about performance, the retina aspect doesn't change anything. Some games will run better with the ipad 2 in Hdmi because it doesn't need to push that huge resolution at the same time, especially against the ipad 3.
     
  8. masvil

    masvil Well-Known Member

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    #8 masvil, Jan 6, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
    I wonder:

    1. which hardware/cable is needed to have HD video mirroring? Is AmazonBasics cable good for that? Is Apple 30-pin Digital AV Adapter needed?

    2. How/why app/game has to support specific output?

    I'm evaluating to adopt a dedicated iPad (+ iCade) to be my only game machine, so I'm very interested :)
     
  9. killercow

    killercow Well-Known Member

    #9 killercow, Jan 6, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
    Well I think both cables are fine though I don't think that the Amazon one can do 720p/1080p. Mainly because it's RCA and not HDMI.

    Any game is compatible but only renders in the aspect ratio and size of the ipad on the tv. But some games are specifically designed to render at 1080p when connected to the tv. Almost any gameloft game will do that and you can find some more on this list: http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=88875

    It can also lead to some very interesting features like splitscreen multiplayer in real racing 2 where other players use ipod/iphones/ipads as controllers.

     
  10. #10 Connector, Jan 6, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
    Your cable you mentioned is not HDMI! Also, your tv needs to have a HDMI input.

    Get this cable: 25 foot hdmi cable for $6.20.

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002HKHLDK/ref=oh_details_o01_s01_i00

    This cable has worked for me. At first I was going to get a 15 foot cable, but man, now I am happy that I got the 25 foot cable as one person recommended, cause I use my ipad in more unexpected places than I thought. Plus you need a long cable so you don't get constrainted.

    This generic cable is good quality, doesn't circle up, and has been very reliable, no problems even at 25 foot. Highly recommend it for $6. Don't get a 6 ft cable, your ipad needs space to move. Get the 25 foot even if you don't need the length now, it is plenty cheap and good.

    For the hdmi connector, couldn't find a cheap alternative on amazon. I wouldn't risk a couple of bucks to get a china one and constantly getting a not recognized on my ipad errors.

    The ones in the applestore are probably your best bet. Make sure you get the right one cause they make new lightning connection ones too.

    Yeah, I too am curious whether icade would work with hdmi out. The cable comes out the bottom, so would it dock correctly? Maybe someone with icade and hdmi could let us know.

    Ironman on ipad 3 hdmi

    [​IMG]
     
  11. masvil

    masvil Well-Known Member

    Apr 24, 2011
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    Have a look. Is there something interesting for us?
     
  12. Yeah, I looked at lot of the generics on amazon, but wasn't happy with them. Many did not have a way to power your ipad like how the official apple hdmi connector does, also, reading a lot of reviews, many seem to work, but an error pops up that says this device is not supported by the ipad. Of course it will still work, but getting that error message would be a little irritating, cause I constantly hook up and disconnect my ipad with my tv many times a night.

    Wish it could be wireless, but apple tv does not do mirroring as well as hdmi due to lag and I think the resolution is less in mirroring mode.

    Anyway, a lot of the generic connectors are not that much cheaper than an apple one, to save $10 and have to wait a month to ship from china, or have one that keeps getting an error code, or to get one that does not power and charge the ipad; I just don't think it is worth it.

    My recommendation would be, pay the $40 for an original apple hdmi from the apple store (many stores like target are $5 more expensive).

    Buy the $6 25 foot hdmi cable I reference in an earlier post, this will save you a ton of money. This cable sells for close to $50 in a lot of stores.

    So, for $46 and an ipad as the console, and an iphone as a wireless joystick, you have one of the most wacked and crazy consoles ever. Cables running everywhere, an ipad as a weird tilt and touch joystick, a dvr, music player, a crazy crazy console system.

    But damn fun. I used to have an xbox with over 200 games, mame with like 4000 games. But my weird ipad console is sooo much funner. Games like alpha zero, asphalt, nfs, beat hazard, mutantstorm, deathsmiles, jetpack joyride, crumble zone, shmups, endless runners, driving games, repulze, wild blood, orc vengeance, lili, wraithbourne, dariusburst, etc play soooo well on a tv.

    The list is endless, it is taking me tons of time to reload a lot of games to see if they will play well on tv. Even iphone only games look great, so I am starting to buy iphone only games like deathsmiles.

    Anyway, in conclusion, recommend everyone to go to target or any store, buy it, try it, if you don't like it, return it for your full money back. Also make sure your tv is hdmi compliant and that your tv has a lot of zoom
    Modes. My tv has many modes like original, wide, stretch, super zoom, panoramic, so I can pretty much force any landscape game to go fullscreen. Portrait games, you have to get pretty close to your tv cause all the zoom modes are pretty useless.

    Try it, you all will be impressed, I sure am, and I hope more of you all join me on this weird console tech demo experience, but man, it is fun!!!
     
  13. killercow

    killercow Well-Known Member

    I've been using HDMI since day one with my ipad 2 and I love it. It's the only capable mkv player I have. But while I play some games with it from time to time, It's not always great. Modern Combat 4's framerate, even on an ipad 4 is too low to be enjoyable and increases input lag, and every game using tilt is very awkward due to that cable. Nevertheless, I enjoy it and I love all those crazy ideas like the one found in RR2.
     
  14. metalcasket

    metalcasket Moderator
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    RR2 is by EA, bro.
     
  15. masvil

    masvil Well-Known Member

    Apr 24, 2011
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    Can you please provide a precise link?

    I'll do that for sure :)

    Which app do you use as MKV player? I'm currently using Good Player, but I'm not sure is the best for our purposes.
     
  16. killercow

    killercow Well-Known Member

    :D:D:D

    Hdmi out for the ipad 4: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD826ZM/A/lightning-digital-av-adapter?fnode=3a&fs=s%3Dalpha%26m.manufacturer%3Dapple

    Hdmi out for the ipad 2/3: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD098ZM/A/apple-digital-av-adapter?fnode=3a&fs=s%3Dalpha%26m.manufacturer%3Dapple

    For me there's only one player that works perfectly: Avplayer (HD version for the ipad). With the latest updates it now supports any mkv with hardware decoding. Super fast and fluid.
     
  17. Does ipad 2 output mirrored games in 720p? I think my new ipad is outputting mirrored games in 1080p, cause it looks much better than hd tv which is 1080i.

    Also, how can retina ipad not affect the tv graphics? On my tv, graphics for retina ipad games look so much better than ipad 2 resolution games. It doesn't even seem close at all. So what your saying about retina not affecting the image on tv kind of puzzled me, I would have to disagree.

    It seems like to me that everything on my new ipad screen is converted directly into 1080p format, so since ipad retina is so much sharper than ipad 2 resolution, it will display much better. Not ipad retina quality, but far better than ipad 2.

    Let me know what you think. There seems to be so few people that have experienced the wonders of hdmi, it is confusing cause no one seems to know a lot of the technical aspects of hdmi, airplay, and mirroring perfectly.
     
  18. Greyskull

    Greyskull Well-Known Member

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    ...made all the more confusing by the term HD being used for everything and everything. HD audio? Dubbleyou Tee Eff is that supposed to mean? Depends on the company pitching it. Then you have the phrase "true" HD bandied about as if they mean we REALLY mean it this time! Pinky swear! That is, until 4k becomes the "this time we mean it" HD.

    1080i, 1080p, 720p etc are very specific standards for video output. They don't necessarily correspond with tablet/PC/phone/whathaveyou screen resolutions. I think HD only Refers to an ability to, at least in theory, play back a video encoded in an hD format without sacrificing image quality.

    But now I've gobe and gotten myself confused :(
     
  19. killercow

    killercow Well-Known Member

    #19 killercow, Jan 8, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
    Well the retina itself doesn't impact the resolution mirrored on the tv AFAIK. But the increase in spec means that a game that was built with the ipad 3+ in mind can have new effects/better textures than the same game played on an older ipad.

    I think that, for games, it is 720p unless the game is meant to be fullscreen. There it runs at 1080p (but it cold be just upscaled too)
     
  20. I would tend to disagree. And I'm talking about non Airplay games, games in mirrored mode only. The games that I play with ipad retina on my tv look far far better than 1080i hdtv (I put the hd in for you Greyskull). I would have to say it is 1080p. I can tell a big difference in upscaled 720p on my tv vs 1080i. And 1080p is even better. The hdmi on my tv is shockingly good. So that makes me believe it is 1080p for sure.

    I'm not expert on this, but I would figure that you have the original ipad resolution either retina or ipad 2, then it is converted to 1080p. Since ipad 2 resolution is worse than 1080p which is 1920x 1080, the hdmi converter UPSCALES the image.

    However, on a retina ipad, since ipad retina is better than 1080p resolution, the image is DOWNSCALED. Downscaling always looks better than upscaling, and since ipad retina is pretty close to 1080p native resolution, I think that is why I am seeing a huge difference in ipad 2 res games and ipad retina games.

    What I got no idea on is if the ipad 2 is outputting mirrored games in 720p or 1080p. I think my new ipad is outputting 1080p converted ipad retina graphics. There seems so much confusion out there in airplay, mirroring, and what is what with hd, 1080p, 720p, so it is confusing.

    I maybe totally off base though, just going by what I think and see. What do you think of my logic?
     

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