iPad Games on the store will never be taken seroiusly unless...

Discussion in 'iPhone and iPad Games' started by ipressbuttons, Jan 1, 2009.

  1. ipressbuttons

    ipressbuttons Well-Known Member

    Nov 17, 2008
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    The games have higher quality sounds.

    Two days ago i read an article, one of many that have the title "iPhone vs PSP" both have their own unique factor's but something which they both share is sound!!!

    Today i made three purchases, snail mail, warfare incorparated and god of war chains of olympus. all three amazing but if i'm honest the sound in snail mail is shockingly bad! fine warfare is port (the gameplay rules btw) and the dev has promised better sound but i mean all games on the store seem to have bad sound, sim city, rolando, hero of sparta, ferrari gt. You name it! in fact the only game i can think of on the app store with decent sound is super monkey ball! in fact i would say thats the only "complete" iPhone game.

    *note* i'm not talking about gameplay or graphics here, i love must of games i've bought :)
     
  2. NotYou

    NotYou Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2008
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    I can see your point. I'm not sure how serious of a problem that is, but I think odes make a difference.

    Good sound files can be very large. CroMag is a large file because the sound is pretty well done. With lower quality sound, it'd be much smaller. That's the reason I think most games have poor sound.
     
  3. pablo19

    pablo19 Well-Known Member

    Oct 26, 2008
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    I have ablsolutely no complaint with the games you mentioned (Snail Mail, HoS..) do you listen with headphones or the speaker?
     
  4. brewstermax

    brewstermax Well-Known Member

    I don't listen to the sounds/music anyway. So it doesn't matter to me. I don't think that it will stop devs if they find the platform appealing to develop for...
     
  5. Indy

    Indy Well-Known Member

    May 26, 2008
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    Sound from the speakers or with headphones or both?
     
  6. Rocketman919

    Rocketman919 Well-Known Member

    Aug 8, 2008
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    dude you're crazy! Rolando has great sound and the majority of good games do. Sound is an added bonus in any situation, and I'm sure the majority of people play all the games silent anyways.
     
  7. SudoWorks LLC

    SudoWorks LLC Well-Known Member

    Dec 10, 2008
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    #7 SudoWorks LLC, Jan 1, 2009
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2009
    Apple makes it very difficult to put good sound in a game. The code they provide to implement sounds is VERY unstable and has memory leaks.

    It only supports playing uncompressed .Wavs for sound effects which are LARGE (a 10 second clip is 1.1 megs) It supports background music in .MP3 but this eats up CPU power.

    Loading a bunch of sounds all into memory at the same time is not an option because you're limited to maybe 30megs of ram before you have to worry if there will not be enough and your App crashes.

    This is one of the reasons why Apps usually are more stable once you Reboot. Apple makes sure that all of the First party Apps have all the RAM they need and do not free it up for third party Apps to run.

    You need to write a lot of your own code and deal with audio packets etc.. to get something better than what is provided. Not all devs have the resources or time to write a custom Audio Class that is stable and supports compressed files to keep the size down.

    So you may have a App that's rock solid and never crashes but you add audio and you get an unstable buggy feeling App. That's why some people just end up leaving sound out all together or use low quality low sample effects to save space in RAM.

    Das Boot had a few issues with this in it's initial release (we use a lot of sound)

    But after a low of work we have rectified this issue for version 1.1.

    It's Interesting that with a device that was made to play music & sounds does such a bad job of letting you program sounds for it.
     
  8. 1337brian

    1337brian Well-Known Member

    Oct 12, 2008
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    In My Head
    I think Sim City's Sound production is flawless....??? :eek:
    What an odd statement my friend...
     
  9. RPGGuy

    RPGGuy Well-Known Member

    Sep 3, 2008
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    I tried to put good sound and music into Blue Skies. It's a lot better if you use headphones for stereo because the iPhone only has one speaker.

    I didn't have any troubles with slowdowns when using streaming compressed music.
     
  10. aghartastudio

    aghartastudio Well-Known Member

    Oct 3, 2008
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    Game designer/ director
    Lyon, France
    we had a flawless sound implementation of sound (5 original musics tracks and hundreds of sfx) in 1112 ep 01, but it was barely mentioned in reviews (Except the one from pocketgamer)
     
  11. gootch12

    gootch12 Well-Known Member

    Dec 30, 2008
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    New Orleans, USA
    I think the sounds in Blue Skies are great, immersive, and really add to the enjoyment of the game.
     
  12. vicviper42

    vicviper42 Member

    Nov 26, 2008
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    I really don't think sound is an issue. In fact, I almost always have the sound off (because my 1st Gen Touch has no internal speaker and I don't want to wear headphones all the time) and it doesn't affect my experience with the game at all. There are other things that devs should worry about if they want their games to be taken seriously.
     
  13. I second the "Apple needs to make sound easier to implement" rhetoric. Sound was the part of development that I liked the least. Although, admittedly, it was kind of rewarding when I finally got the effect I was looking for.

    But its also true... I play a lot of games without even having my headphones in. Sound seems like an optional characteristic for iPod Touch games to me...
     
  14. tunawrap

    tunawrap Well-Known Member

    Sep 16, 2008
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    Uh...I don't really buy games based on their sound quality..
     
  15. Oliver

    Oliver Well-Known Member

    I really want games to have great sound effects and music. Take a look at these 24kbit mp3s which Hudson used for NeoSameGame. What's this? It's ridiculous. Or the 90s midi sound in Star Wars Force Unleashed... Games have to have great sound. I love Rolando, Motion X Poker, Monkey Ball and 7 Cities, because with sound enabled and with sound in a great quality you get involved deeper into the game and it just makes more fun.

    No DS game has sound issues. Boot up Age of Empires and it comes with a great soundtrack which really gets you into the game directly with the first game screen. That's how it should be!

    DS cartridge limit: 128MB.
    iPhone app limit: 2GB.

    Think about that.

    We are now slowly approaching the point that games look good, like with Fastlane or Hero of Sparta. But there's still a long road to go until they sound good.

    I said it before: I still think we will get a bunch of "real" and "complete" and "polished" games in the summer or fall 2009. Good production values need time and the iPhone OS also needs time to settle.
     
  16. parranoya

    parranoya Well-Known Member

    Nov 16, 2008
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    The thing I get paid for
    CANADIA
    sound issues

    Can the devs just put the sound files in a different place and work within the limitations of the itouch.....use itunes to download the sound files and have the game play them natively with the music playing in the background on repeat or something. So use iTunes to sync the sound files and have the app play them in the background this leaves more memory for sound effects does it not? yeah I know its one extra step and might have to be done differently but would it work ---then you could have orchestral music that does not use up any memory.
     
  17. ipressbuttons

    ipressbuttons Well-Known Member

    Nov 17, 2008
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    Sound is very important!

    People are saying it isn't important? have you played Dead Space or Fallout 3? yes there on a console but the sound they have is incredible, just look at the reviews if you havent got the games, and if you have? go on play without the sound...

    And i use S-jays Siren armuture headphones that cost me £70, gotta have my Justice and Daft Punk as sharp as possible :)

    To devs, sorry i never knew it was difficult to have sound in your games. Blue Skies has better sound then most £5.99 apps out there btw.
     
  18. spiffyone

    spiffyone Well-Known Member

    Dec 7, 2008
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    It would seem to me that most of the good apps have damned good quality sound. Rolando, Hero of Sparta, Brothers in Arms, etc. But, yes, I agree that some apps are lacking in the sound department.

    So it's less about the limitations of the kit in dealing with the issues, or the hardware itself, than it is the limitations of the devs themselves. What the iGame platform needs is a developer along the lines of, say, Factor 5 who takes sound very seriously. Yes, I know Lair and even the last Star Wars game they did for GC were, well, kinda flops, but they were the devs that wrote the sound tools for GC when all other devs were whining about the lacking sound capabilities of the platform. What Factor 5 did was say, yeah it's not doing digital sound like PS2 or XBox, nor does it have well implemented sound tools, but working within the limitations we can have pretty awesome sound. And look at that first Star Wars game they developed for GC. At the time (and even now) it's a triumph of sound design for that type of hardware.

    So devs just need to work within the limitations of the hardware and try to get the most out of it. I mean, lack of the type of graphics hardware that's in the iGame platforms hasn't stopped devs from making DS, PSP, or even iPod classic games or making really great looking games on those respective platforms. Lack of the sort of tools (currently) for sound shouldn't really stop devs from getting good sound out of the iGame platforms either. Just gotta do more with less, and work harder. And that is an issue of time/cost.
     
  19. gcl

    gcl Well-Known Member

    Jan 1, 2009
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    some apps do sound better

    agreed that some apps are lacking in great sound, but after hearing the 'soundtrack' for The Plateau one can see that sound can be done right.
     
  20. PoV

    PoV Well-Known Member

    Oct 10, 2008
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    London, Ontario, Canada
    The sound in Smiles has received much praise, but the playback method I used (system sounds) sometimes brings up a bug I've narrowed down to the iPhone itself (either the Firmware or the SDK). Firmware 2.2 may include a fix, but I've only seriously tested it on 2.0 and 2.1 thus far.

    As it's been mentioned, public information about iPhone sound has been extremely poor. It's a little better now, but you have to dig through docs and forums to get any real answers.
     

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