Games mostly made by artists or programmers?

Discussion in 'Public Game Developers Forum' started by 99c_gamer, Nov 12, 2010.

  1. 99c_gamer

    99c_gamer Well-Known Member

    Mar 23, 2009
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    I think the low budget production of the app store games is causing developers to wear as many hats as possible.

    But from you guys are saying I definitely see value of having at least one person dedicated to overall "game design".
     
  2. mr.Ugly

    mr.Ugly Well-Known Member

    Dec 1, 2009
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    what has low budget production todo with the appstore?

    actualy nothing.. the only real difference is the visbility of the "crap" on the appstore..

    there are hobbiiest (sp?!) all over the world working on 360 xna games, pc games, linux games.. whatever platform they choose to use..

    so there is everywhere low budget productions in developement. its just that the low entry to the appstore makes it easier to get a coin back for their work, or at least they think so..

    if the yearly fee would be 1000+ dollar we would have alot less "noise" in the appstore

    but the low entry fees are one of the reasons the appstore is so sucessfull.


    if one wears several hats its usualy due to the nature that he has not the ressources todo otherwise.. and has nothing todo with the appstore..
    you find such people everywhere.. in the 80s the platform of choice was the c64 .. nowerdays its the iphone.. time changes.. people habbits usualy not :)
     
  3. 99c_gamer

    99c_gamer Well-Known Member

    Mar 23, 2009
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    They're low budget because they sell for a dollar sometimes end up being free.

    That's why you mostly get low quality low budget games.
     
  4. mr.Ugly

    mr.Ugly Well-Known Member

    Dec 1, 2009
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    #24 mr.Ugly, Nov 17, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2010

    A big share of the games in the top100 sell for a dollar, so what now?

    Everything low budget production there?

    And no one ends up free, jeez its not someone is forcing anyone. They usualy go free because they want to for promotional reasons.
     
  5. wefiends

    wefiends Well-Known Member

    Jul 30, 2010
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    I don't think I've ever met or heard of a game designer who wasn't either a programmer or an artist long before anybody would call him/her a game designer/director.

    Of course, artist refers to a lot of things. Hideo Kojima was an aspiring writer and film director (you definitely see that in all his work). Miyamoto was/is a character artist. Amy Hennig was an animator/writer/artist.

    Game design is a definite skill set. Go make a dozen games and you'll quickly learn that awesome programming/art don't make a great game. It has to be fun, rewarding, addictive, balanced, etc. These things are game design.
     
  6. 99c_gamer

    99c_gamer Well-Known Member

    Mar 23, 2009
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    I didn't mean game design isn't necessary of course it's all part of making a game.

    sort of like building a house. Game designers are the architects, programmers are the construction crew, and artists are the decorators.

    Good game design is important but between the construction crew and decorators working together you could probably still come up with a pretty sweet house.
     
  7. rmlinden

    rmlinden Active Member

    Nov 10, 2010
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    But getting construction and decorator crews one needs money. Money can be obtained by making a product which performs high in multiple areas such as construction and decorations. But you need the crew to reach that quality OR do it yourself. The latter means that you need to perform multiple roles (or wear multiple hats).

    The entry requirements to get some random bit of compiled code into the appstore is very very low. Getting a product out that actually performs is very very high .. or one has to be really creative / lucky
     
  8. GlennX

    GlennX Well-Known Member

    May 10, 2009
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    And this is why a hell of a lot of game industry professional programmers have ended up making games for themselves on the app store.

    There is nothing worse than being one of the 'construction workers' on a big game where some no nothing jumped up ex-tester gets to tell you and the 'decorators' what to do because he rose to the top by sucking up to his boss and the guys at the publisher while the constructions workers and decorators worked seven long days a week and took the blame for the delays caused by his "architectural" decisions.

    The construction workers and decorators rarely getting any design input themselves because they were just too busy implementing the ideas of someone who only got listened to because he couldn't do the real work himself.

    Designers (high concept designers at least) are worthless scum. All of the best games are based on technical or artistic high concepts.
     
  9. BlueSolarSoftware

    BlueSolarSoftware Well-Known Member

    Oct 9, 2009
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    I don't think it's the low production budget that has anything to do with the quality of the games. It's a matter of inexperience and building everything from the ground up. It surprised me to meet so many iphone game developers who were veterans of the game industry.

    For many small competent studios, money isn't the main issue, but time is. In other words, in order to get the game out in a reasonable amount of time, studios can cut features, levels, characters, and even polish.

    I don't think games being 99c is a good excuse for poor production values anymore. If the studio's been paying attention to the iphone market, there's so many ways to make a living on the app store even if you don't have a hit game.
     
  10. wefiends

    wefiends Well-Known Member

    Jul 30, 2010
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    But enough about EA... ;)
     
  11. mr.Ugly

    mr.Ugly Well-Known Member

    Dec 1, 2009
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    i think its more the other way around.. the expected production value for a 99cents game.. is the problem..

    and since time = money.. money is an issue with everyone

    and i think its pretty normal to see alot of "veterans" because the entry into the market is so low.. if one follows the news it looks like every month a big studio is closing it doors.. and its not like every month a new big studio is opened up... so you have alot of jobless veterans in the need for money..

    so they try todo what they usualy did..

    but i can tell you from my experience being a veteran in a hundred men team doesnt count for ship if you are working in a small team and need to wear hats you never had to wear before.. so even vets are usualy newbies in most of the areas they stumble into when they are developing their own games..


    i don't know of any developers personaly who made it through with their own products to make a living on the appstore.. i know alot who tried.. but pretty much all failed.. or are still "failing"...

    making a living means constant revenues.. that its actualy not as easy to achieve as people think.. there are currently 68k developer for the ios platform.. how many of thoose do you think are able to life of their sales?
     
  12. GlennX

    GlennX Well-Known Member

    May 10, 2009
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    Not just EA, just about any dev team with 10+ staff who aspires to be EA :)

    My post was partly tongue in cheek and partly serious. Partly motivated by the fact that anyone with a serious game habit who doesn't have the skill and/or commitment to learn to program/draw/model assumes he must be the world's best undiscovered high concept designer and pictures a room full of autistic code geeks and unfocused artists just waiting for his guidance.
     
  13. 99c_gamer

    99c_gamer Well-Known Member

    Mar 23, 2009
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    autistic code geeks :D

    I'm a programmer I can do the game design. It's a question of time (or money). Without the programming the game doesn't get made so that's what gets the most attention.
     

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