Actually, the Game Gear hardware was based off of the Sega Master System hardware. Same Z80 CPU, similar video processors. That's why a lot of the later Master System games were actually ports of Game Gear games. That said, the Master System was really only a contender in Europe and other PAL regions, and Brazil. The actual issue with Game Gear, aside from what you mentioned, was the then high price point. When released, it was quite a bit higher than Game Boy. It was also true that Game Gear had the same identity problem that has plagued PSP: attempting to bring a home console experience to the portable game system market. That increased dev costs and went against what the consumer expectation was. Kids at the time expected simple diversions in portable games, not something that mimicked what they could play at home, because, y'know...they'd just play at home.
See...that's the problem. Doesn't matter if Apple is the one to release such an add on, because by nature of it being an add on it will NEVER be a de facto standard. Why? Because it'd be an add on. An expansion. By definition an add on can NEVER be a standard. Not everyone who owns the original device will have the add on. It's an extra purchase. As such there's no way for the development companies to ensure that the greatest majority of potential consumers in the user base will own the add on, and so the majority of companies will most likely NOT waste precious resources (time, money, effort) to have compatibility with said add on. Instead, they'll go about their business as usual and focus on that which ALL of the potential consumers in the user base are sure to have: the original hardware. The smaller devs might support it. But it is highly unlikely the larger devs will, and that's because the larger devs have things like accountants and researchers who know not to spend money all willy nilly like on things that may not be put to use at all. Smaller indie devs have the freedom to go against the grain of common sense, and even then the smarter indie devs will realize that, y'know...it's probably more important to focus on what everyone has and therefor not waste time and precious money to focus, however slightly, on something that not everyone will have. It's simple business sense. Sorry to break that to everyone thinking that this will be a godsend. Whether released by 3rd parties or even by Apple themselves, if it isn't included in the original hardware (is an add on) there won't be total 100% penetration into the current (and even future) user base. If it ain't 100% it doesn't make much sense to support the peripheral. BTW: "Attract big game companies"? You mean like EA, Sega, THQ, Vivendi Universal, Konami, Namco, etc.? FYI, the big game companies are attracted by to the same thing that every company in every other industry is attracted: money. Game publishing companies who own development arms or outsource development don't give a flying fig about control interface for the most part. Developers do, but to a limit: they won't forego developing on a platform that has a higher probability of good returns on investment simply because of a "different" control interface. In essence, money has a way of changing mindsets. Developers who think "god, I could never wrap my mind around multi touch screen and accelerometer with no physical dpad or buttons" won't be totally averse to developing for the platform if the money is there. And keep this in mind: This is not DS. It's not PSP. It's not even a portable game system, nor is it in the portable game market (because it's not a portable game system by definition). It's a mobile platform, which is a wholly separate market btw (the same way PC is counted as separate from home console, and arcade separate from everything as well). As a mobile platform the design paradigm is different. There's no dpad and buttons for the same reason that there's no controller that comes stock with your PC or Mac: it's not a dedicated gaming device. It's a viable platform for games, yes, but not a dedicated game system. It's meant to run a variety of software, and not just focus on games. And much like the PC market when it started to become a viable platform for games had developers understanding that they needed to develop games based around the control interface EVERYONE who owned a PC was assured to have (keyboard and mouse), so too will this platform grow around developers who understand they need to develop around the same sort of ideal. I'm not saying that they can't have an option for icontrol support (they can, same as they do for PC game controllers at times), but that it is unlikely the vast majority of developers will include such support.
I want the gamepad so then when an emulator comes out for all my old school games, I can then play Castlevania with ease!
You seem to forget that just because 100% of the people don't have this (hypothetical) accessory, there may not be MILLIONS of people out there that own it. That's like saying, why would anybody develop a music game that requires a guitar when only 10-20% of console owners have a guitar? It is because that 10-20% represent millions of people who are actively purchasing and seeking out music games to go with their peripherals. The Wii Fit board is another good example. If a specific controller catches on, I will own one, and will be looking for games that take advantage of this "godsend". As such, I will be actively looking for games that take advantage of this.
Maybe I just wasn't paying close enough attention to the Keynote. In the examples I remember the iPhone talking to the peripheral. Like the speaker dock, and using the iPhone to control the EQ. Were there any examples of the peripheral effecting the iPhone? I just don't remember.
Ladies and gentleman of the jury today we are presented the case of danc4498 versus years of consumer electronics add on history. Dance4498 would have you believe the success of Rock Band and Guitar Hero are in some way indicative to the future success of extraneous video game accessories. I present to you the following evidence for your consideration- Exhibit A: Exhibit B: And finally, by far the most damning piece of evidence... I present to you, Exhibit C: Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I rest my case.
I forgot no such thing. I clearly stated that the vast majority of developers, and therefore the vast majority of games, will not support such a peripheral. Some may, but the majority won't. As such, don't think that it's a godsend. By nature it simply won't be supported in large amounts. It's a nice idea, a nice add on, but that's all it is: an add on. It's not stock, and as such the majority of games, even those that you might think really need it, won't support it. It's really that simple. Bad example, full of holes. I CLEARLY stated that some devs will support the peripheral. I know my post was rather long, but, damn...if you're gonna respond to it please take the time to read more thoroughly. I clearly stated that the vast majority of devs won't support the peripheral. Some will (as they do in the PC market with game controllers and flight pads, etc., and I alluded to that fact, btw), but the vast majority won't. So don't go expecting the vast majority of devs to support the peripheral is what I was getting at, and because of that don't go thinking that each game that you think needs such peripheral support will necessarily include it in the game. In that sense it doesn't solve any "issues". [/QUOTE] You bring up the Guitar Hero controllers and the Wii Fit board. Good examples of peripherals that are supported in some form by 3rd parties, sure. Now tell me that they're supported by the vast majority of 3rd parties. ... Go on. ... Oh, you can't? Well, of course you can't. They aren't supported by the majority of 3rd party companies because the majority of the consumer base doesn't own such add ons, and the games that take advantage of said add ons are specifically tailored to those add ons and developed with the understanding that they will be highly niche compared to the games that are developed around the stock controls. One could make a platformer using the Wii Fit board, after all. It's more than feasible creatively. But does it make much sense to do that when you can just make a platformer that uses the stock controls, and by doing so ensures that the largest pool of potential consumers (everyone) can play and enjoy (and most importantly, buy) the game? Not really. And while some developers may add an option to support the Wii Fit board in some of their games, the vast majority of developers WON'T. They won't for the reasons I've outlined. That's nice. Good for you. But the vast majority of developers won't support the peripheral, which is what I clearly stated. And you've done nothing to disprove that notion.
Hodapp, I know you understand what I was getting at, but I'm sure he'll answer back that those weren't controller add ons and therefore not exactly comparable to this add on. And he'd be correct in a way. So I present this damning piece of evidence: Sega's 6 button control pad was released in 1993, about 4 years after the Genesis was released in NA (and about 5 years after it had been originally released in Japan). What happened? The vast majority of 3d party games that came after the new controller was released supported only 3 button control and didn't even use the extra buttons. Why? Because the original controller that shipped with the Genesis/MegaDrive had only 3 buttons. And because it was the stock controller that shipped with the hardware, it made sense to support the 3 button controller over the 6 button. There were 3rd party devs that took advantage of the extra buttons (Capcom for Street Fighter, Midway for Mortal Kombat, EA for some of their sports titles), but the vast majority of developers simply didn't support the extra buttons on the new controller.
I agree with Spiffy. Why would developers make games that require an add-on that only a small percentage of iphone users have, even if it makes the games cooler? That's just limiting your market. That said, it seems like one cool thing about iphones is the flexibility in control schemes. There are already games out there that let you choose between different controls. Why not allow the add-on to be just one of several optional control schemes? Then there wouldn't be a problem of different add-ons with different controls. A game could have optional control schemes for every add-on, as well as ones that don't require any add-on.
True people do want platformers but I'm just saying that there could someday be that developer that breaks the mold and finds the way to have the gameplay right with just touch/motion controls for the platformer. that would solve the problem also
The sad thing about this is that the Sega 6 button was by far the finest controller for fighters ever made. The button placement was perfect, the D-Pad had razor-sharp precision. I had a Genesis controller to USB adapter that I used for the longest time back when I used to be really hardcore about emulators.
Wow! This is a hot thread. I always thought the Saturn controller was the best for fighting games, but I digress. The only real way to make this accessory have any support is if Apple follows the Nintendo model and places it as a pack in. Whether it is a light gun, rumble pak, or packaged with a hit game, the only way any developer would see true financial viability is if Apple offers it to the consumer for free. Seeing as how Apple isn't a fan of "hard buttons," there doesn't seem to be a turn from Apple to support it. And, since all Apple accessories have a premium attached to it, there's no way a controller accesory will see any viability unless it is attached to a killer application. And, even then, there probably won't be any cross application support. i.e. Rock Band and Guitar Hero accesories don't talk to each other.
It made me LOL! Anyway, there's a million reasons why those failed, and them being add-ons is only 1 of them. Furthermore, there's a million differences with the concept of a controller add-on for the iPhone, and the items you posted (the same goes for the controller spiffyone posted) I see your point, and I largely agree with what you've said. I don't think a controller add-on would be standard, and the majority of developers would not develop for it. I was mostly arguing against your idea that just because 100% of the the market doesn't own this, only small devs will take advantage of such a device, and large devs would be very unlikely to use this. I think it is certainly likely that most of the games that support this (again, hypothetical) device would support it as an option. But my point is if this device was popular enough (even if it's in the minority), there would be a lot of potential dollars that could be made by offering this device in the feature list of a game, and large devs would especially recognize this fact.
What about games that dont change in landscape mode. The D-Pad would always be on the wrong side---get used to playing backwards. And the 3.0 firmware will give us a whole bunch of these things in the future...too bad these guys did it on their own and not with apple---they could have made a mint!
I beg to differ. We've gotten quite a few platformers that work really well with the platform. We've gotten a few RPGs, SRPGs, and even RTS titles that work pretty damned well. Flight sims/flight combat games work nicely too. So I don't agree that all we have with the present methods of control are puzzle, "casual" (which could be anything, btw) and racing games. Very true. But, then again, there aren't any decent fighters for DS either, and that system has actual physical controls in addition to the touch screen. Hell, I'd go as far to say that PSP doesn't really have a decent set up for fighting games outside of Tekken DR. Yeah, it has Vampire Chronicles and Street Fighter Alpha 3 and such...but...honestly...playing 2D fighters on PSP is a pain that just isn't worth it, IMHO. The dpad is based on that simply horrid for 2D fighting games PSone controller design. Seriously, the only people who think Sony's stock dpad is good for Street Fighter or King of Fighters are those who grew up with Sony's teet in their mouths. Those of us who grew up around arcades and Sega's vastly superior Genesis 6 button/Sega Saturn and SNK's Neo Geo controllers know better. Add that pain in the ass dpad with the horrid face buttons and you've got a recipe for discomfort. There's a reason 2D fighting games are few and far in between on portable systems and the mobile market: They just aren't made for such markets. The only 2D fighters that worked well were the ones on Neo Geo Pocket Color, and that's because it was SNK. Then that's a limitation of the developers, not the platform itself. I saw that topic, btw, on this board. There were a ton of ideas from board members on how to implement an adequate control scheme for N and N+. So apparently board members are more in tune to what is achievable on this platform than some developers. It helps that some board members are devs themselves. [/QUOTE] People have platformers already on iTouch/Phone. Bounce On Rasta Monkey Sway Rolando PapiJump Papi Jump Cave Papi Jump Land Toy Bot Diaries 1, 2, and 3 Hyper Hamster All of those are platformers, and pretty much all of them control quite well using the stock controls available on the device.
wow nice post there and I agree. For the most part the iPhone does have a good chuck of titles for genres already. I think a gaming pad isn't needed as developers can figure out ways to use just the phone as input. Just takes some clever thinking Oh but there are some cool fighters on the DS.... you just need to import them from Japan
Perhaps...but the problem I have with it (and probably a lot of companies would agree) is that all the time and effort (and therefore money) spent adding in icontrol support could probably be better used getting the game to run as optimally as possible using the stock controls, or toward marketing, or toward a bunch of other things that prove immediately useful in some way to the majority. *sighs Don't remind me. God I hate games that do that. There NEEDS to be an option for screen orientation flip/toggle in each and every last game that is played in landscape mode. I don't think developers realize that the iPhone and iPod touch have their headphone jacks oriented differently, and that if screen flip isn't included then the folks with one of the devices is left uncomfortable while the people with the other device can play it just fine. I just went back to playing SPiN, and forgot that this was an issue with that game. The developer included an option to toggle orientation to portrait, but there's no way to flip landscape, and as an iTouch user I'm left with the headphone jack on the bottom left hand side, pretty much stabbing my hand. I could play in portrait, sure...but that's not entirely comfortable for such a game, IMHO. Where the hell is Frand?
Okay, Calm down everyone. If you don't like it then don't get it. You may prefer the original iPhone control scheme. I doubt developers would design a game only to work with the iControlpad. Smart developers these days incorporate mulitple control schemes. Basic platformers work fine with the iPhones original control scheme, some that are more advanced can use the iControlpad. It has an: L button R button Directional Pad Start button Select button A button B button X button Y button Imagine the more complicated games with these controls. Lets see... Every button on the iControlpad can be used in combinations except for the Start and Select button... That's 100 combinations. You can make an amazing fighting game with these buttons. Not only fighting games but games with more features/moves can take advantage of this control pad. PS: I did the math right. There are 10 buttons. First of all there are 6 buttons but with the directional pad-"Left, Right, Up, Down" that adds 4 more buttons. 10 buttons * 10 combinations = 100. That's only if you make combinations of 2 buttons. Imaging 3, or 4...
Will Devs use the gamepad too much and not use the touch and accelerometer aspect of the ipod touch. Why not get a psp if u want something chunky, I love the ipod as it is just to slide in ure pocket if u start adding gamepads and stuff it takes awy the portability quite a bit
