Gameloft

Discussion in 'General Game Discussion and Questions' started by Based Xatu, Mar 6, 2015.

  1. Based Xatu

    Based Xatu Well-Known Member

    Aug 27, 2013
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    #1 Based Xatu, Mar 6, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2015
    I've only been an iOS gamer for 2 years, but I've been playing on cell phones since '05. I was looking for an article on a gameloft game and saw that TA had record of just about every gameloft release on the AppStore. Most of the games I noticed were "premium" priced, and had tons of price drops ( I'm guessing from poor sales), and it made me think:

    As much heat as gameloft has been taking for the past few years, it seems like they really did try to do full games. I remember playing their games on flip phones, and they had some of the best games avaliable. This goes for Glu, Digital Chocolate, and a host of others.

    I remember a time when all games were around $3-$6, and that was okay- and those games had no where near as much work put into them.

    TL;DR Gameloft tried and failed, and now they're trying their best to maintain in the mobile market. Give them some slack.
     
  2. RoboWarrior

    RoboWarrior Well-Known Member

    Oct 3, 2012
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    #2 RoboWarrior, Mar 7, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2015
    The problem isn't them not doing well, its making apps rather than games. After all this is a iOS gaming site and while their game do work for many people, for the people reading and commenting on this site, what Gameloft is outputting aren't games but interactive apps. Granted recently they have been releasing some okay games like BIA 3, Modern Combat 5, and Asphalt 8. Honestly I haven't cared too much as there will always be another game company to replace the niches that Gameloft left open with the transition from premium to freemium games or another company to properly implement freemium aspects. Many people want to see the Gameloft of old which was known to be very innovative in the early days of iOS. What they'll bring to the future will be interesting as they experiment with the upcoming year testing freemium components (always online, multiple currency, etc which they technically started sometime mid-last year).
     
  3. Anonomation

    Anonomation 👮 Spam Police 🚓


    The good ol' Asphalt 5 days, when I didn't even know what Apple was or if I did I didn't care.


    That was back before the developer mentality to release games unfinished and update them/make them better as they go along.
     
  4. Based Xatu

    Based Xatu Well-Known Member

    Aug 27, 2013
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    Is it Gameloft's fault that this is what the market requires? That people would rather spend hundreds of dollars on a free game, than spend $5-$15 on a full game? As far as I can see, they really tried to stay with making full games, but when you're trying to run a company and you're not making enough sales, you sometimes trade your initial goals and ideas in.
     
  5. Exact-Psience

    Exact-Psience Well-Known Member

    Jan 12, 2012
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    The Work-At-Home Guy
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    Or rather, gameloft saw the opportunity that they can earn a lot more with freemium titles with unlimited purchasing potential, and took advantage of it.
     
  6. Rip73

    Rip73 Well-Known Member

    Nov 18, 2011
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    #6 Rip73, Mar 7, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2015
    No they didn't.
    And your statement really is just a typical demonstration of the angry iap/freemium/gamer mentality that seems to be flourishing around here without actually looking at the facts of the matter.
    Typical "anti" Gameloft rhetoric without any degree of understanding of how supportive of premium Gameloft truly has been. And still is on the inside.

    Xatu is 100% correct in both of his posts and has clearly looked at their history and come to the exact right conclusion.

    Gameloft was the very last top developer to hold out on switching to freemium, the very last one.
    Industry "people" were commenting for years as to why Gameloft was holding on to the premium model when it was clear that the freemium model was where the margin is.
    While people on here were complaining about iap, everybody was "advising" Gameloft seniors to change the company strategy away from the premium games they were releasing. Even when the iap was inconsequential.
    While Glu/King/whoever was raking it in with freemium iap filled titles, Gameloft was releasing MC2, MC3, MC4, NOVA 2 and NOVA 3 (and a multitude of others) at premium prices with inconsequential iap.

    And even with all that advice, industry commentators, internet "commentators", shareholders and numerous other vested interests pushing them towards a freemium model, they still resisted it and stuck with premium far longer than they should have.
    Despicable Me was their first true balanced freemium title that saw success. Everything else was just an experiment or an attempt at adaption to try and make it work. And even while that game was performing extremely well financially, they still soldiered on with premium releases.

    That much would even be clear today as they are still trying to find a fair balance in the freemium model and have experimented greatly with it which has led to some success and some failures simply down to their inexperience with the model.

    The freemium model is one they still resist to this very day. It's something that causes quite a lot of "discussion" internally and if there was any indicators that people would actually support a premium model, Gameloft would be only delighted to switch back to it, but the fact is, there is no indicators at all that people will support a premium model enough for a company like Gameloft to keep paying it's employees and taxes.

    I could give even more detail but I'm not going to waste my time on what would ultimately be a failed attempt to enlighten the opinioned uninformed but no, they didn't see an opportunity to take advantage of, they simply had no choice but to adapt to what you people were willing to "pay".

    And Xatu, well done. It's at least consoling to finally see someone with enough intellect and common sense to notice what has really gone on.
     
  7. epik5

    epik5 Well-Known Member

    Jul 21, 2013
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    Gameloft failed even on optimizing the games. I wouldnt have bought mc5 or wasted IAP's on gt racing and asphalt 8. I still use an ipod touch 5, and seriously. Gameloft fails more and more
     
  8. Exact-Psience

    Exact-Psience Well-Known Member

    Jan 12, 2012
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    The Work-At-Home Guy
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    #8 Exact-Psience, Mar 7, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2015
    Sigh... Rip, Gameloft is a company. No matter how good one boss's intention is for his company, either a higher or lower level employee will work their hardest to be recognized in a company, and the best way to do that is to gain revenue.

    Even company owners eventually lose control of how business rolls, since as the business grows the structure does as well, and with more tier of bosses and employees, the chances of a midtier boss to gain revenue for the company just grows.

    Since it is proven that more people will download free games, and some get addicted and shell out tons of cash, that is where these mid tiers will focus.

    For example, one team in gameloft earned millions for a freemium game they made, they would get a ton of recognition, maybe even bonuses and other incentives. Dont you think other teams inside gameloft want to compete with that?

    The freemium model is a treasure trove, as proven by other companies that made it huge.

    Do you still think saying that Gameloft found an opportunity to grow even more through the freemium model something an anti-freemium guy would say? They know they can make good games, everyone wants to play them, and they provide IAPs that can be bought many times over to keep improving something ingame. Surely, a balance can be made, but you cant deny the fact that making good-looking games free with IAPs can rake in a lot of money. That is an oppotunity.

    If Gameloft stuck with the premium models til now, the company may sieze to grow. They may still be around, but it wont grow.

    Im trying to be as objective as i can with the freemium model. Sure i dont like it personally, but i do accept their existence and see through possible reasons why it exists and why it will stay.
     
  9. Rip73

    Rip73 Well-Known Member

    Nov 18, 2011
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    What's with the "sigh"?
    Do you not like it when someone points out how typically rhetorical you're post was?
    Do you really consider you're post that I replied to as "objective"?
    Really??

    I've zero interest in another fermium versus premium discussion with anybody on here, irrelevant of how "objective" they consider their post but "Took advantage" implies zero objectivity whatsoever and is merely the usual rhetoric I (and every developer on the planet) has come to expect from people here.

    Xatu pointed out a very valid point and accurate assertion. You dismissed it with you're "objective" post that implied developers just want to take advantage of the consumer.
    You're point is not accurate.
    Yes of course they want to make money, everybody does, but not everybody wants to make it by taking advantage of the comsumer. Some want to earn to charging a fair price for a fair product.

    Take it, leave it, I don't particularly care but don't try and come off all "balanced" and "objective" when that clearly is not the case.
    Xatu is the only one that was truly objective.
     
  10. SherlockEB

    SherlockEB Well-Known Member

    Apr 22, 2013
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    We got freemium, we got Gameloft
    Throw in some EA and you got yourselves a soup of what TA users would consider as worst things on mobile gaming.

    Anyways I don't really care what Gameloft does or what happens to them since I've never considered them talented people.But I also wondered why they didn't try freemium formula sooner. Maybe they were afraid about the outcome. I guess that's gotta be it since they kept experiencing with it rather than switching to it at once.
     
  11. Based Xatu

    Based Xatu Well-Known Member

    Aug 27, 2013
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    #11 Based Xatu, Mar 7, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2015
    Rip are you an industry insider? I've noticed on other threads, you've known some intimate details on these companies. It's nice to see that someone actually knows what they're talking about concerning the mobile industry, instead of speculation.

    Also, Gameloft has some of the most fair freemium games out there. Just about every game they make, you could do well just by spending $5 or even nothing. You can really tell they care, but it's hard to find a balance between making money for your company and still making quality games.
     
  12. Rip73

    Rip73 Well-Known Member

    Nov 18, 2011
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    That really would be a question I couldn't answer but I suppose I will say I know lots of people who know lots of people, etc., etc., and I've know them a hell of a lot longer than I've been a member here.

    It always surprises me when I see the level of criticism directed towards developers here and statements along the lines of "taking advantage" or not caring about the customers well in fact quite the opposite is true.
    I don't know a single developer that is out to ride their customers and they are all extremely decent hard working people who are just trying to find the best balance in what is really a very young market.

    That's why I found you're post so interesting and felt necessary to support it because I had essentially lost all hope of the forum being a useful resource and you proved me wrong on that. And I was surprised enough to go and dig out my password that I'd deleted just to say that because it is genuinely appreciated by those that need to hear it and it does show the appropriate level of insight that a lot of people have missed.

    It's not a case of developer versus player mentality from the developers but it certainly would give the impression that gamers seem to think that way and that its "developer bad/player good".
    There are exceptions of course, there is always a bad seed in the good but the good seeds far outweigh them and that is the case with genuine developers who quite simply want to make a return from entertaining people.

    Gameloft always believed/hoped that premium with optional (and I mean optional) iap would be the ideal solution in the long term.
    Unfortunately right now that has turned out not to be the case and because they were so slow to adopt a freemium approach, that inexperience has led to some mistakes.
    There is very sincere steps to remedy their previous mistakes this year, they have to be because their would be more serious consequences if they don't, but ultimately you have been more accurate than any other post I've seen here in a longtime.
    They do have a lot to do though because of certain factors but overall they are definitely doing their best to be balanced and not "take advantage" as some seem to think.

    So ultimately, thanks for your post. Stuff like that will make all the crap they have to take from others less disheartening to those it matters to.
     
  13. Primoz

    Primoz Well-Known Member

    Aug 14, 2012
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    #13 Primoz, Mar 7, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2015
    I play mobile games since 2003 (perhaps sooner), back when people were really weirded out whenever I played a mobile game. And I used to spend hours upon hours daily playing those games. I spent about 150$ on those games and as soon as I got any money on my phone I used to spend it in a matter of minutes. There used to be a magazine that had codes for mobile games (and ringtones, backgrounds, mp3 files etc.) on the back of it and there was an online store from which you could buy games. Granted, most of my java games were pirated, since there was simply no legal way to get those games in my country. Good times.

    It's true that Gameloft was the company with the most games out there, but they all felt very flat to me, even back then. They weren't exactly defining anything new. Gameloft was releasing a lot of movie garbage games and cloned games as well. They always were "that company" to me, that always milks everything possible. Granted, some of their games were quite fun, but never had anything original to them in my opinion.

    They ruined a lot of their own games in their transition to freemium (BIA 2, GT Racing), which makes me question how much they really care about their own games/player base. I don't think a company that didn't instantly jump to making freemium flappy bird clones is exactly something to fanboy about.

    Gameloft should put out a lot of freemium crap and in return they should give us premium titles, now that's the kind of symbiosis I'd fanboy about.

    But yeah, either way the market is to blame, not the companies. Just look at what happened to fishlabs. They've been releasing amazing titles on mobile phones since 2004 and now they're giving us Galaxy on Fire Alliances. Sigh...
     
  14. Rip73

    Rip73 Well-Known Member

    Nov 18, 2011
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    Yes, Fishlabs, another fantastic developer.
    The market left them down though, didn't support their premium enough and they'd no choice but to switch after a significant enough funding program.
    They also have a fantastic game engine in there as well that I'd truly love to see used more.
    It's works very well with racing games so I'd really like to see them push out a full game of that type (other than the VW China one).
    It'd offer a full real challenge to any other racer out there.
     
  15. Anonomation

    Anonomation 👮 Spam Police 🚓

    #15 Anonomation, Mar 7, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2015
    Highly illogical. Their Premuim games have Freemuim elements.

    Look at TASM 2. Halfway through the game you payed full Premuim for you can't progress without grinding for hours UPON HOURS for credits or pay money to get anywhere.

    Have you played any of their freemuim games recently? Let's look at Asphalt 8. At a certain point you will need to have certain car specifications, but the credit output of races does not really suffice. They have CAR UPGRADES and DECALS in fact that cost more than cars themselves, which are also expensive.

    Let's look at Gangstar Vegas. People payed money for that game and at no point did they indicate it was going to become freemuim or make another SEPARATE title.


    If anything I don't think they were FORCED into that business style, there's something else you're missing.



    Oh and Rip,why do you see complaints directed towards you personally? Not only that, but a lot of this isn't anger towards the DEVS, it's toward the higher ups that want more money ex. EA.
     
  16. Nekku

    Nekku Well-Known Member

    May 31, 2013
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    If I don't like an GL (or any other ones) game for its instrusive p2w (lottery, paywall, etc., don't deny it though it doesnt apply to every GL game available) iap model then I'll go ahead and express my opinion on this forum and no one here is in any position to tell someone that his 'opinion' is right or wrong. It's just an opinion, just get it already. Who cares about if they are still experimenting with the freemium model? At least, they know very well how to squeeze out money from addicted and weak minded people (no offense though) by implementing these mechanics even if it is somehow gamebreaking.
    Example: adding timers on potions in dh4 which you can bypass with real money is gamebreaking for someone who grows up with this genre. These core gamers are mostly the ones ranting - the so called 'freemium haters'. Just give us a break, too.
    Yes I get it, that's the mobile market as of now and I probably argue like this cuz I didnt accepted this fact yet. I will never accept it cuz I've grown up with having fun while playing in mind instead of how much I do have to spend to bypass the next paywall or massive grind (grind != fun).

    Rip, it's hard to argue with you on this topic and I wouldnt do this if I didnt feel it is neccessary imo. On one side, I do really like you. I followed your mostly informative posts since I joined this forum and I really appreciate that.
    On the other side though, now if I read your name I pretty much already know there is a wall of text ahead of me with facts, conclusions, etc.
    It's the *sigh* moment. I (we) do get your point but I (we) do want that you get my (our) pov, too. How is this so hard to understand?
    I'm still ranting about how things were so much better back in the day, though, no one ever tells me how wrong I am with this.
    And really, that's not a GL-only thing. It's just because GL is one of not so much active long time developers where everyone is able to compare their old/new game lineup. EA and all the other one just getting the same 'hate' as GL.
    Hope you don't take it personally. It's not.
     
  17. Rip73

    Rip73 Well-Known Member

    Nov 18, 2011
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    I neither see it personally nor take it personally.
    There's a big difference between valid complaints and the smart ass comments or the usual rhetoric that reverberates around here from the same people on the same topic over and over again.
    I'm just sick to death of the same rhetoric over and over and over again.
    And I'm not the only one.

    There was a time where both developers and gamers had meaningful interaction on here but I heard it at GDC last year and I heard it again this year, they'll read and log in but they will not enjoy the experience and they will interact as little as possible.

    And from the line I've quoted from your post, if a complaint is directed at someone or something someone has been involved in, how would one not take it personally exactly? It is personal by its very definition because the "criticism" is not constructive criticism, it's rhetorical anger based derision as though one were in a battle with them.
    I don't because I'm not "personally" involved but I know plenty of people who are and it is neither enjoyable for them nor enjoyable for me to see how disheartening it is for them because I actually do give a damn about the people I know.
    Everybody is perfectly happy to take constructive criticism.
    What nobody is happy to take is a gamers attitude to developers and publishers as though they were the Devil himself who was only interested in riding them for every cheap miserable scent He could get from them.
    That is not the case with the majority of developers and the sooner people around here learn that, the better.

    And again, you can share my opinion or not, I really don't care because the majority of posts around here are now just not really worth wasting time reading.
    And if I feel that way, do you really think those that actually develop feel any differently?
    Do you not think that all the rhetoric has diminished the value of the forum?

    And I actually like the forum.
    I I ow it doesn't appear that way but I do appreciate the work of Eli and Jared and the others and I know from conversation with other people that they are extremely hard working and very decent people who are doing their best to provide a meaningful medium for both developers and gamers.
    And I appreciate and applaud that. Even despite the numerous heated discussions I've had with them on here in the past.
    There is simply no denying the great work they've done.
    It's ultimately them I feel most sorry for because all their hard work over the years is being diminished by a bunch of angry people on the Internet

    @nekku, yes I know it's not personal, of course.
     
  18. Exact-Psience

    Exact-Psience Well-Known Member

    Jan 12, 2012
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    The Work-At-Home Guy
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    #18 Exact-Psience, Mar 7, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2015
    I was disappointed that you had to post all that coz you're saying i was wrong. Hence the sigh.

    I merely added to Xatu's post that Gameloft made a business decision. Is that wrong?
     
  19. Rip73

    Rip73 Well-Known Member

    Nov 18, 2011
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    Yes, there was.
    "took advantage of" carries its own obvious implications.
    You also worded it in a way that suggested there was a "choice" made.
    There was no choice or alternate option.
    It wasn't a case of a choice or an "opportunity that they can earn a lot more" with "unlimited purchasing potential" , it was a case of a "choice" of making any money at all. Simple as that.

    Meeting adjourned.
     
  20. Exact-Psience

    Exact-Psience Well-Known Member

    Jan 12, 2012
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    The Work-At-Home Guy
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    Aha. Ok.
     

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